Yeah and look where its got us, whilst undoubtly London is the world financial hub, Germany manufacturing base has left it in good shape..... only this week Cameron was saying how he wants to move back towards a manufacturing base, without manufacturing, there can be no growth.

Thats a MASSIVE u-turn on policy for the last 25 years+

We all knew it was mad to let the 'workshop of the world' go to pot, but the politicians seemed not to....

Look at stuff only a few years ago when I was growing up, most stuff was made in britain, even all the toys I played with, all made in a factory in small town somewhere in England..... it makes me sad when these Games come down out of the loft, and they all say Made in England inside the box lid..... When was the last time you saw that?

All the low-end, low-tech manufacturing will not return here anytime soon - not unless we can convince people to work the same wage as the average Chinese worker

Yesterday when I was looking at my Dinky Toy collection. I agree it's sad, but if European Federation had been realised 'we' would have had a manufacturing base a few hours away by train.

Cameron has shown he has a bit of backbone. Neither of the other parties have that now. Just think where we'd be without the conservatives. :eek: Frightening!

yes, no more graham norton , there just had to be an upside

Perhaps not the toy industry in the UK, but certainly with the "heavy" industry, unions made Britain uncompetitive in that era.

I imagine Derek Robinson would've been disappeared or at best re-educated over in the 'economic success story'. Human Rights and Democracy or Made in England?

My sentiments EXACTLY!

I felt the same when they all screamed about wanting their big bonuses or they would go elsewhere. ARE there that many free jobs in that sector?

You can put him with Arthur Scargill, Jack Jones and Joe Gormley who's union together weilded so much power that they were effectively running the country.

I suppose now you can replace them with the likes of Stephen Green, Bob Diamond, Michael Sherwood and Stephen Hester et al.

All in all I think he has got it right. We have had enough of the Eu running our affairs.

Very glad to see that he has got the guts after all to make a decision against the wishes of the merkozy syndrome.

It will be interesting to see how many of the other countries go along with it and whether they really do have a chance of saving the Euro.

Les

Great to see Cambo standing up for his country, Brown would have signed on the dotted line just as he did Lisbon treaty and sold us down the river.

Also nice to see Sarkozy so put out, I have spent a lifetime seeing the French get their own way taking this and that out of the EU without putting in half as much as we do, the gravy train stop here.

Sarkozy blanked a handshake from Cambo who then gave him a gentle reassuring pat on the arm, shame he didn't do it a bit harder and knocked the cnut off his cuban heels.

Bloody Hell, that is so very true.

I *think* I agree with what Cameron has done, but I can't help feeling that we, as a country, are going to get tucked up by the rest of europe.

Quite worrying times, although there's sod all we can do about it.

In what way are we going to get 'tucked up' though? That's the thing I can never understand. There's an awful lot of doom-mongering about getting 'isolated' and suchlike, but there doesn't seem to be anything logically founded once you get past the rhetoric.

Absolutely right thing to do, why should we bail out a competing currency, the exchange rate is bad enough already

Well I now know one thing for sure; we hate the French more than we do the Bankers...who'd of thought it:)

I would of loved to of seen Sarkozy's reaction if he had been asked to give up on the CAP to help out the current EU wide malaise

I'm not being kidded by all the 'brave Cameron' stuff though, he took the easy path, the one that didn't involve risking his job by taking on his backbenchers, the one that didn't involve negotiating!

The full implications of this are yet to be seen, some are likely to be unpleasant for us I suspect

Assuming that our vast trade with the EU is unaffected in anyway, then you maybe right.

Not sure we can know that yet though

Not for exports

Yeah - I agree with this.... if he had rolled over & signed it he would have had hell to pay.... it could have cost him his leadership.....

The Conservative party are becoming VERY anti-EU lately.....

Its only taken 70 some years for Germany to get its way of controlling Europe all with the help of a Vichy government

That never happened.

The only way it can possibly be affected is by punitive trade tariffs: the avoidance of which is hardly sufficient grounds for joining anything.

There has to be a point at which you say no to threats like that, otherwise they can do anything they like. On the one hand you have the potential material loss with the disruption of trade (and they will also suffer in proportion to the extent to which we comprise their annual trade), and on the other, you have the prospect of a drift of power away from yourself and towards the EU bureaucracy.

You just have to ask yourself - because currently the EU seems to be taking this form - whether you'd be happy a few years down the line coming up against all sorts of barriers in your workplace and your personal life, put there by people on the continent who know 'what's best for you'.

That's what the choice is between if trade tariffs are the issue: principle and material well-being.

Perhaps 'tucked up' is the wrong phrase - but do you trust the French and Germans to not hold this against us?

As for doom mongering and rhetoric - I know of one company that has a base in the UK but manufactures and builds certain things all over Europe,that will certainly leave the UK for good if trade or currency values becomes at all difficult.
That'll be 20,000 jobs gone.

[QUOTE=GlesgaKiss;10372367]The only way it can possibly be affected is by punitive trade tariffs: the avoidance of which is hardly sufficient grounds for joining anything.

There has to be a point at which you say no to threats like that, otherwise they can do anything they like. On the one hand you have the potential material loss with the disruption of trade (and they will also suffer in proportion to the extent to which we comprise their annual trade), and on the other, you have the prospect of a drift of power away from yourself and towards the EU bureaucracy.

You just have to ask yourself - because currently the EU seems to be taking this form - whether you'd be happy a few years down the line coming up against all sorts of barriers in your workplace and your personal life, put there by people on the continent who know 'what's best for you'.

That's what the choice is between if trade tariffs are the issue: principle and material well-being.[/QUOTE

The devil will be in the details

I think we have (on balance rightly) crossed a line here. The new eu grouping can change the rules if they wish without UK consent. We could easily find ourselves in a position of having to comply with all sorts of trade regulations that we had no role in shaping.

I too agree with Cameron on this, it seems to me the euro zone country's are just stalling he inevitable which will the collapse of the euro, there is no way it can work especially when certain former eastern block countries are now looking to get in on the action.
I suspect that ultimately Britain will now have to pull further out of Europe if not completely, but that may not be a bad thing either.

Bad.

All Cameron cares about are his city friends (where he will get a job when he leaves Downing Street). The average guy in the street can be happy in the knowledge of the worst pensions in Europe, and some of the lowest paid jobs.

If he gives in to the EU and let them tax the city of London his friend's go else where ie New York the UK loses up to £54 billion in taxes.The UK is so depended on the city because we don't have any thing else(manufacturing and farming are gone)and the Germans and French know it.

UK is going to lose either way :( we f*cked.

And how exactly had Cameron handed over the country's decision making on financial and economic policies to Brussels would it help the average guy on the street and his pension?:confused:

This is exactly the issue will face; having to comply with, yet have little say over, EU trade regulations.

Switzerland is a really bad example to choose I think.

UK needs a MUCH more proactive relationship with our biggest trade partner. Contray to popular belief the UK has a significant a export/manufacturer market in the EU, the Swiss don't and their economy has suffered badly in recent years

I think the problem is that they can still change the rules for the City; the devil is in the details on this one