I do this solar PV mullarkey at work, but not domestic at the moment. We start installing a 100Kw PV scheme in a few weeks, and am just finalising the design now.

250K investment will get just shy of 31K RPI a year for the next 25years. Not bad rent!

The government killed any hopes of large scale PV last week with the FIT consultation, prior to this I had been involved with ground based scheme proposals up to about 5000 Kw. I'm glad they have TBH, these schemes were led by foreign developers stumping up borrowed money, and then creaming the FIT which is funded by us.

Sub 50Kw will likely remain untouched, so if you have about 130K, and a plot of unshaded land approx 40mx20m, and ready access to the grid, you should look at it for a return of about 15K RPI a year. Even if you can't stump up 130K, you can borrow it and still make money as the general rate of return from PV is generally in excess of 10% overall.

This is why local councils and housing schemes are looking into it, the very nature of the buildings they are installing on are generally occupied in the day. They get FIT for the generation regardless, and greatly reduce thier electrical import costs.

But where does the (domestic) "feed in" electricity go??

It just heats the cables underground and it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to "feed back" to the grid - unless someone else knows better?

mb

Why is it impossible mate? Is it like pi$$ing upstream? It all works in the car mind - alternator gives battery gives etc... Anyway...

I'm almost about to sign on the PV dotted line, but god have I had some idiots and chancers through the door. Its a bandwagon and suppliers are over-charging- even those that don't know what they are doing and offer poor warranties.

The FIT isnt guaranteed - can anyone show me this 100% commitment anywhere - NO!

I feel its a big risk with suppliers, warranties, structural issues (no one is taking proper 'its OK' responsibility for the 16x16 kilos going on ONE side of my roof and us sleeping underneath it).

Thinking of an M5 and creating some carbon with the funds cos my head is spinning...

D

Wont the feed in tariff prices end at some point, 45 p isnt really sustainable, I wouldnt base my sums for roi on 25 years of 45 p, like the free VED on low polluting cars the govt will move the goalpost when they loose revenue and I expect the power companies will either stop the feed in tariff or bitch and moan to the govt if its enforced.

As for planning and aesthetics, people need to get real, suspect that the population may make concessions if the telly goes of, look at the Greece, Turkey and other countries they all have some right ugly junk n their roofs but they get free hot water, would trade a tidy roofline for some of that, and I am sure we can do it in a more tidy fashion.

The feed in tariff will gradually start going down but the price of the equipment will match the decrease.

Our nationwide company is branching in solar power installations .

We've been told sooner you get it the better

So, I own a 2 acre field at the side of my house - completely unshaded.
Can I have these panels installed on it and make a bit of dosh?

(only have sheep on it at the moment so I'd arse them off in an instant!)

In a nutshell yes. Not as much as you used to as government as twigged on to it.

I think these panels are damn ugly. There is a family who live nearby who have this on their roof. It covers three quarters of one side of the pitched roof of their house. This is on a housing development and just looks completely out of keeping with the other houses around it.

I think these should be limited to installations on industrial estates and to tops of high rise buildings which are already ugly buildings, with plant on the roof anyhow.

"Is it like pi$$ing upstream?" - probably a good analogy. I still await somebody who can explain how you can push your "FIT" back up through a sub-station, into the grid and back along the pylons???

BTW, before you sign on the dotted, make sure that you read, understand and accept all the clauses. IANAPVG, but...

• What happens if you want to sell your house?
• What happens if you need to work on your roof (under the PV panels)
• Who is responsible for maintenance of the system?
• Will the PV panels last 25 years?
• How long will the inverter last, what do they cost and who has to pay to replace it?
• What is the effect on your household insurance
• What is the effect on your council tax?

mb

Why would you think it would go back to the substation and pylons etc. Electricity is not stored it is used and produced on demand so surely your FIT would just feed into the system thus requiring less to be produced at the power station.

Chip

Boomer I can get all them answers for you on Monday if you wish?

I know they are pretty maintenance free and the invertor should
Be checked yearly to see if it's still performing what it should be.

As for council tax , why would it change ? :wonder:

Diesel, i've been looking into these and have to agree no one seems to be able to confirm that.

Another issue for those who get them fitted for free (with the FIT going back to the installers) means you can't sell your house because you no longer own all your roof. Sounds crazy but it's happening to people!!

Hi Everyone

Here are the answers to the questions posed above:-

•What happens if you want to sell your house?
The system adds value to your house (providing you are the owner of the system and you have not fitted a free "rent a roof" system - these probably devalue your house because the new owner cannot fit their own system)
•What happens if you need to work on your roof (under the PV panels)
If you needed to work on the roof, the panels would need to be removed and refitted after the roof was repaired.
•Who is responsible for maintenance of the system?
The system is effectively maintenance free - the panels all have a 25 year warranty and there are no moving parts. It is worth getting them cleaned once a year - especially if they accumulate dust or debris from trees, birds etc.
•Will the PV panels last 25 years?
All good quality panels have a 25 year warranty. I would only recommend fitting panels from a well known consumer electronics company (Sharp, Sanyo, LG etc.) - as they are most likely to be around to honour the warranty- unlike unknown Chinese manufacturers.
•How long will the inverter last, what do they cost and who has to pay to replace it?
The inverters all have a minimum warranty of 5 years and some have as much as 12 years. All offer extended warranties and you are then effectively taking out an insurance policy againt failure. A replacement inverter is aroung £1000 to £1500. I would factor in the cost of one repair or inverter rplacement during the life of the system.
•What is the effect on your household insurance
Most large insurers fully insure the system at no extra premium
•What is the effect on your council tax?
None that I know of.

Hope the above is helpful!
Cheers
Steve

I have had EON assessing my property for these solar panels .£99 is all I pay if they fit them .Not sure what the script is with free eleccy or putting back eleccy in the system ,but will need it clarifying if I go ahead .Concerned about 25 yr deal ,and what if I sell up before this period ,will it be a ball and chain that nobody wants to take over .?

Someone said free eleccy during the day ,when we are at work ! Then you pay as normal in the evening,which is no good to us at all .I will report back when I get more detail .

thats right so therefore a waste of time as they don't ive you a feed in tariff

Hi, the "free" - rent a roof systems are a real minefield. You risk devaluing your house and making it very difficult to sell at a later date.
The only real benefit of these systems is the free electricity that the system is producing during daylight hours - providing you are able to really utilize this electricity at these times.
The company that fits the system get the feed in tariff and export revenue and on a 4kwp system fitted to a south facing roof this is likely to be around £50,000 over a 25 year period.
Cheers
steve

Would be interesting to see how many homes could be kitted out with panels compared to the cost of the various alternatives, how many panels equals one new Nuclear Power Station ?

One great thing is the fact that it is pretty redundant, one house goes off line it doesn't really matter but I think its a log way off in terms of cost versus benefit compared to a Nuclear Power Plant.

We had a bloke out to talk to us about these last year.

We needed to put up £24.000 & would need to stay in the property for 17 years to break even - that was with selling the unued units back - which would be most of them as we are out at work all day.......

Not as good as it first looks!

What size of a array was that for?

Hi, the current going rate for a 4kwp system is around £12,500 fully fitted and on a south, facing roof this would be paid for in 7 to 8 years and the remainder of the 25 years would be tax free profit.
Cheers
steve

is that london prices?

we charge between 10-11 for a 4kw system

Just been looking on Solar Century or something to that name. For a mid terraced house like mine which faces (west) front (east) rear, it would cost about £9k to install with an overal profit of about £23k in 25 years. Paid for itself in about 9-10.

If you could find the initial moneh's (in Facejacker Augustus 'legitimate businessman' voice) and get through hoops re. profit, national grid etc, I think it's genuine possibility for many. I'm not really bothered about the aesthetics of it, whether it looks pretty; my street is full of terraced and semi-detached steelworkers houses. If it was financially viable and knocked my leccy down by a couple hundred quid a year whilst paying for itself...

All power does go back to the grid, by grid I don't mean it goes back to your local substation, then on to the main power lines, it has no need to, it is already changed from direct current to alternating current via an electrical switching process. It just goes back to the distribution point on that part of the network, or equally used by your next door neighbour

Look up demand side management and grid energy storage if you want to know more.

So if I have a 50 acre field why wouldn't I fill it with solar panels and wind turbines ? I have seen the uproar when people aply for planning to get a wind turbine erected but surely a pure 50 acres of photo voltaics would be an amazing sight ?

First, you don't live in Spain or Southern California, so the cost/benefit ratio of your investment compared with a conventional crop probably wouldn't make it worthwhile, and second, the feed-in tariff for solar power on an industrial or semi-industrial scale might not be anywhere near as attractive as it is for a smaller domestic setup.

Unfortunately the feed on tariff rate on systems above 50kw has been reduced so much that they are not now financially viable. The government cut the rate on these big solar farm systems to prevent the revenue from being sucked out of the UK by foreign investors.
This means the feed in tariffs will now mainly be paid to domestic systems and smaller commercial systems (farms, community centres etc.)
cheers
steve

aye we're looking on a solar pv for work, under 10kw system to keep a half decent rate
quite a few people ive spoken to use it as a income after installing from money from there pension payouts etc o.0
the ~10 year period until payback is slightly concerning, but the FIT payments are very tempting!! i can see why the gov had to quickly move against the bigger sites, like farmers realising they can get alot of cash from it outta a spare field etc heh

Wind seems to be abit rubbish less you have a decent area of clear land with a nice turbine on a large post :/

No one has mentioned that the panels efficiency deteriorates over time. They're only worth fitting on 'forever homes' otherwise by the time you move out you probably won't have cleared the expense of installing them.

The energy you feed back is connected to the LV side of the grid off your substation. Other homes connected to the same transformer will use the electricity you generate and there will be less load on the transformer as a result. If there was no load on the transformer and you were generating then it is possible for the transformer to work in reverse and back feed the HV side of the grid.

The feed in tariffs are likely to change in April next year and will drop to 34p or something like that, so you are best to get in before then. You can still make good money if you have a roof facing east or west, but the pay back will be a lot longer. If you get in before the tariff change you still get the 43p or whatever it is, plus the 3p bonus for energy you don't use, after the tariff change. This is supposed to be guaranteed by the government for 25 years. There is an online calculator somewhere that takes into account where you live and the angle of your roof and what direction it faces etc.. and it comes back for me that with a 4KW system I would get a return of around £1000-£1300 a year on a west facing roof.

If your an e-on customer with a south facing roof they offer a fit for free scheme with a chance to buy the panels at a later date. So you get the energy bill saving to start and when you buy, you get all the cash.

Give that we have no efficiant ability to store power if every one had solar panels would we not end up with lots of excess power in the day time and sweet ra at night. I would have more interest in solar power if I could store the energy locally. Sone kind of home sized machine that splits the hydrogen out of water then we could have our own hydrogen fuel cells to power the house and car.