I agree! :eek:

Not only that, but lots of older music happily rubs shoulders with new music on people's iPods because it's no longer consigned to the doldrums of "dead" formats but is available totally on a pick 'n' mix basis. In a sense, lots of music has become almost ageless/timeless, especially to the yoof. :)

Those elitist hi-fi snobs still exist, however.

To be fair MP3 has become synonymous with the high compression small file size files used for portable music players whereas in reality MP3 is just a format for storing audio signals and can be used with low or no compression to give much better sound quality.

There are a lot of arguments over whether PC ripping software loses anything from a CD and certain audiophiles will tell you it does. I am not so sure and think it has far more to do with how it is then played back.

I don't have aproblem with iPods and their ilk, in fact I own one and use it regulalrly, but I don't like how the option to buy higher quality recordings may well not be there soon.

When I am relaxing at home I like to listen to music on my separates system and hear it properly and an iPod as a source into that set up sounds utterly awful.

What makes me laugh the most is people saying they don't want the hassle of having to change discs etc. I stilll use vinyl (as welll as CD) and remmeber when CD was touted as beung so simple compared to those horrible vinyl albums... how times change eh?

Bollocks. Cheap systems to replay the music formats of the day have always been around. Take the 'ghetto blaster' or Walkman as an example. The difference now is accessibility, the ability to instantly create a playlist or select any track at the touch of a button. Then of course there are all the illegal downloads which means there is probably a lot more music in circulation than there was 20 years ago. Not so much democrisation as theft in that regard.

The problem is that for those of us who would like to hear the music properly rather than compressed to death the options are shrinking. CDs are dying and there appears to be no other high quality format coming through. It's a sad state of affairs really. The way society is going everythng is becoming about price and instant gratification, quality is no longer a factor :(

lol - my 10,000th post and I'm pointin out the issues of MP3s and music!!! How apt!! :D

The issue with MP3 is yes, you can up the compression rates to get better quality sound.
At the expense of larger file sizes.

Where do you stop? At the point where the encoded MP3 is the same size as the original raw audio file size? :D Kind of pointless exercise IMHO.

So, are we really talking about MP3 as a "sound" algorithm that in society, we like the sound of - akin to why people like the "sound" of vinyl.... or CD? etc etc?


Dan :) (YEH - 10,000 baby!!!) :D:D:D:D:D

Not pointless, my iem's will happily point out the difference between flac and mp3, and this is on a portable device.

As for size constraints, that's not really a problem especially with 128gb memory on it's way to being released, 2-3 years ago perhaps but not really now, id rather have the quality.

You are mistaking quality with actually sound reproduction, with a real quality piece i can actually feel myself placed in the enviroiment, that's is what hifi nerds aim to strive for, a life like sound quality just happens to be a by product.

I think your ears need a good syringing.

Au contraire.

And I don't agree at all with your statement about quality/reproduction, as (if I've read it correctly - got a lot of ear wax ;) ) the PRODUCER's role is to give you the quality you refer to (that immersement in the music), AND the clarity required to hear it properly (reproduction).
IMHO, you're being extremely naive if you think that the reproduction is a by-product.
A GREAT many hours are put into creating the environment for the listener (with the artist - but the vision is predominantly the Producer's)

And this will be the argument point - IMHO (professional opinion), MP3's sound awful. (and from a theory aspect as well).
The file constraint issue may not be seen as a problem, but it terms of wasteful disregard for storage, you're correct - storage media these days allows for this.
But if you want quality, you go for the ORIGINAL file type and size.

Now, pass the syringe when you're done (but clean the end first)

Dance music may, in the main, be worthless, but buy Record Collector magazine to see how the vinyl renaissance has come about. I for one will keep on buying and playing vinyl.

Sorry serves me right for being half asleep. Right i do know that immersion isn't a by product it's down to the producer, what i was trying to get across is that people equate a higher bitrate for being better quality.

I don't entirely agree, you become more immersed with the music, that is where the higher bitrate comes into play, trouble is more people won't have such equipment, so as far as they're concerned that is as far as mp3's go, which is far from the truth.

Ok mp3's do have a limit, when im after absolute quality then it's always flac, ok it's still a compression but lossless nonetheless.

I do feel it's a shame that most folk feel mp3 is the be an end all, they've never heard vinyl from a good tube amp, that for me is best, though sacd isn't that far behind.

Not everyone was like that. I agree that there were ridiculous reviews of banana plug connectors at £100 each, but there are some fundamental truths regarding music. Bass is air movement, and for that you need good size speakers. Not even a £1,000 phone will ever produce bass.

Agreed :thumb:

I think the issue we're getting to is that as a format, MP3 is sh1te. If you want a higher quality but compressed format, there are better alternatives :thumb:

Still comes down to the basic concept that if you want the real thing, don't settle for an immitation.

(oh yeh, and shame that SACD wasn't as big a take off as it should've been :( - great sounding format :thumb: )

Dan

Regarding the closing of HMV stores and hi-fi shops, where will it end. For the bedroon and kitchen mp3's and docks are fine. For the living room, is it all going 5.1 used for films and music combined.

Personally I can`t really tell the difference between cd quality (played on a player / home theatre) and mp3 quality (played through my Klipsch dock) :wonder: Maybe some people just have a `good ear` for music.......





or are too fussy :D

somebody pass the syringe ;) :D :thumb:

IN all seriousness, the HMV thing is unsustainable: a friend of mine went to buy a CD from there the other day. They wanted £15 for it. He got it off Amazon for £6.

That's the battle facing the high-street music store. They just can't compete.

My other issue is one of the traditional album. So many of my friends have loads of random tracks on their ipod and create playlists. Then there's artists like Lady Gaga, you get the album, the remix, then the album with extra tracks.

I'm the same, I can tell the difference between bad and ok, but beyond that I'm lost. Its why I was a rigger / security in my uni days and not a sound engineer!

Glad I'm not the only 1 :D

Let's never forget that CD is being killed by the greed of the music industry. :mad:

When you can buy a SET of well-recorded classical CDs for £25, to charge £16 for ONE pop CD is nonsense, and the old cry that, "they cost loads to make" no longer cuts any ice. THEN we see the likes of pop-stars and producers driving gold-plated Rollers.........

Sell 'em for £6-8 and people might buy more. I bought my last two off e-bay, 2nd hand for £3 each. Not bought a new one in years. Nor am likely to :(

I have a full Cyrus system with bi-amps and PSX-R on both source and pre-amp, and it gets used maybe once a month. In the evening wife watches American cop-shows on TV and during the day I have other things to do, or I read, when I prefer to lie on the bed to be comfortable. Cost me well over £3500 and am thinking of selling. I have two other Technics mini-systems and both get more use.

While there is some truth in what you say there is also a generation growing up who see music, movie and software piracy as the norm when in fact they are thieving cnuts!

Aye: but how many would thieve it if it was available at a REASONABLE price?
The recording industry are the thieves here.

I for one wouldn't, nor would my eldest, both of us preferring to own the original. I can't think that we are alone?

Totally agree. as i said earlier, no need to compromise your home/main system. I have 7.1 for dvd/tv which is switched to stereo for cd and vinyl. Once upon a time i would of 'wired' sound through the house (i did at one time have speakers in the bath panel) from the main amp, but now with docks and imusic then i am willing take a hit on the quality for convenience/freedom.

Yeah, the difference is obvious to me, depth+clarity=quality. You will never get that from compressed music through 3mm drivers on your headkandy buds or even the biggest home system as it is just not there.But as above, it's a hit i'm willing to take whilst away from home. So not really fussy, just understanding of the available quality.;)

No, but you are not of the 'Internet generation'. Seriously it would make no difference what the price was, these people actually don't think they are doing anything wrong by downloading for free from Torrent sites etc.

I totally agree the entertainment industry is a big part of the cause of this, but my point is that it is too late now. The precedent has been set.

There are a lot of people who also don't understand why a 'sound' can, or should, be copyrighted. Each to their own, although I obviously realise those people are breaking the law as it stands.

Back in the days of Vinyl & cassette :), the costs were roughly £6-8
you got approximatly 10 - 12 tracks on the album, with a running time of approx 45-60 minutes

You could afford to take a punt on a new album, and could find some gems,occasionally you got a turkey, but that was rare.

Along came CD's with the better quality, choice, spiel, and lo and behold the prices jumped from £6-8 to £15!!

New format yadda yadda, but at £15 it was a big punt to shell out, and the track list dropped from an average 10-12 to 8-10, and the running time dropped too, in some cases to 40 minutes!!

Then there was the turkey factor, how many of you bought a CD, to find only one good track?

No longer could i afford to buy 2- three albums a week, now it was one to two a month. Then came MP,3 & digital downloads.

The format was immaterial, its music whether its a groove in a record, or a bunch of 1's and 0's. What made the revolution, was the fact that you could effectivly eliminate the turkey factor. It brought choice back to the market

It also allowed you to find other artists, that you potentially may not have seen/ heard. In some ways it was going back to the cassette - vinyl days, with random purchases often paying dividends.

On the downside, people took advantage of the fact that the downloads could be free! Harsh but true unfortunately.

The next thing that will have a huge impact is streaming.

I can fire up grooveshark, submit a playlist, and get music all night long all streamed via the web. No Cd's no vinyl.

Wont be long before its available on the move, and that really will have an impact on the market!

Mart

Yes, but what about those of us who feel compelled to 'collect' things. It was bad enough when CD came along as the product in my habd felt flimsy and half baked compared to an LP, but at least it was physical. :D

Agreed, Sleeve notes, gatefold covers, and the mecca "double albums" were the mutts back in my day.
Nowdays it's a slip of paper inside a flimsy cd cover - Wiv, logon to "www.banginchoons.com" for games, downlaods, ringtones, exclusiv content, prizes, chance to meet the guys or gals etc - premium rate number, etc

Mart

leave TDW alone you total tw@, it bordering on a persoanl crusade, get a hobby FFS!

Mine too :D :D Guess we are probably a similar age. Best keep quiet exactly how old though :) :D

iTunes allows you to listen to every track before you buy an album and even then yiu can buy just the individual tracks. Also take a look at iTunes LP's, loads of extra artwork and other good stuff. Apple changed the music industry.

:sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep:

and there is a generation of old cnuts who think 16 quid for a album ill listen to 3 tracks off is acceptable pricing!


Whats you opinion on the fact i have NEVER paid for music, when i was growing up i taped ALL my mixtapes off other peoples genuine albums, never paid for one track and i had 50 plus tapes.


the music industry was moaning taping would destroy the music industry with in 5 years, that was in 1987 LOL.


if you believe downloading will harm the industry in any way you are naive at best and at worst an ill informed clown who believes anything the industry says!

No, iTunes lets you listen to 20 - 30 seconds of a track, thats not enough for me to buy it, I want to listen to the whole track to make my mind up.