Originally Posted by SetoN
(Post 7429456)
God forbid if anyone acually thought twice about killing someone if they new they might to have to face death if caught!
The country would be chaos! :wonder: It does not work and has never has done so. For most people the DP is about revenge, this is not a motive that the state should have any part of. People who commit these dreadful crimes should be locked up for good |
Originally Posted by SetoN
(Post 7429342)
Death penalty VS Life in prison (25 years min)
7 years at $76,000 = $532,000 / 25 years at $36,000 = $900,000 Death penalty wins.
Originally Posted by SetoN
(Post 7429342)
Shall i do a google search also on prisoners released only to re-offend? I think you will find the numbers will be in my favour. SetoN |
Originally Posted by SetoN
(Post 7429456)
God forbid if anyone acually thought twice about killing someone if they new they might to have to face death if caught!
The country would be chaos! :wonder: End result? The death penalty deters nothing. |
Reminds me of that old Peter Cook sketch. Cook was playing the crusty old judge and was sending out the jury to deliberate.
He said something like "Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury. You have heard the evidence blah blah. Now it is your duty to carefully consider all these things before finding the defendant guilty" :D |
Originally Posted by PeteBrant
(Post 7429492)
Since we scrapped the death penalty, the number of muders per thousand people have gone up from 5 to 9. A high percentage increase of course, but in real terms, absolutely bugger all - Especially considering the population increase.
End result? The death penalty deters nothing. If it's a rate per 1000 what's Population increase got to do with anything ? You'll need to find some more convoincing stats for me ;) |
Originally Posted by Reality
(Post 7429577)
So the rates of murder per 1000 of population have nearly doubled since scrapping the death penalty and the death penalty deters nothing.
So you can call it doubling if you like - But the reality is that an infintessmally small number has gotten slightly less infintesimally small. The chance of you being murdered has gone from 0.001% to 0.002%
Originally Posted by Reality
(Post 7429577)
If it's a rate per 1000 what's Population increase got to do with anything ?
You'll need to find some more convoincing stats for me ;) Population increase would have an impact, you would imagine. |
Originally Posted by PeteBrant
(Post 7429603)
It was actually as high as 12 per million in the late 80's (actually blamed on the recession)
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Originally Posted by Brendan Hughes
(Post 7429396)
"So, foreman of the jury, have you reached your verdict? Do you find the defendant not guilty, guilty, or very guilty?"
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Originally Posted by PeteBrant
(Post 7429603)
So you can call it doubling if you like
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Originally Posted by Reality
(Post 7429633)
Why - because it's true :wonder:
I can say that my chances of winning the lottery have doubled because I buy two tickets, but there is still **** all chance of winning the jackpot. Its just saying it in a certain way to make it sound more than it is. |
Serial Rapists - cut their ****s off.
Serial Killers - Hang them. I think the death penalty for a single killing isn't right for a whole raft of reasons; but when your talking about people such Fred West; or Hindely. Your correct, the death penalty deters nothing - but then, given re-offending figures, neither does prison. I don't consider the death penalty as punishment; I consider it as a cost-effective way of removing the significant threat of a un-curable psychopath from Society. |
Originally Posted by PeteBrant
(Post 7429651)
Of course it is - But it politician speak.
I can say that my chances of winning the lottery have doubled because I buy two tickets, but there is still **** all chance of winning the jackpot. Its just saying it in a certain way to make it sound more than it is. I reckon when you kill your first person you get prison. When you kill your second person you get hanged. In terms of total murders - that's an increase from 1 to 2. Or double if you prefer :) |
I reckon that if I was about to murder someone, the death penaly would certainly make me think again!
Les |
Yes, but the usual answer against is that if you were about to rape someone, the death penalty would also make you think that you might as well murder them afterwards so there is no witness. And criminals have said this in interviews.
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Originally Posted by Brendan Hughes
(Post 7432379)
Yes, but the usual answer against is that if you were about to rape someone, the death penalty would also make you think that you might as well murder them afterwards so there is no witness. And criminals have said this in interviews.
double or more murderers would do me ! |
The death penalty is IMMORAL, and those in favour should question their own humanity!
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Originally Posted by Martin2005
(Post 7432420)
The death penalty is IMMORAL, and those in favour should question their own humanity!
If that makes me immoral you can stick morals up yer arse :thumb: |
Originally Posted by Reality
(Post 7432432)
Fcuk humanity - I want double killers to pay the ultimate price - not spend 10 years taking the piss out of the system and get out to commit another murder.
If that makes me immoral you can stick morals up yer arse :thumb: Id like to see the death penalty introduced for people that post thoughtless and hopelessly inaccurate rants |
Originally Posted by Martin2005
(Post 7432446)
Id like to see the death penalty introduced for people that post thoughtless and hopelessly inaccurate rants
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I was working in Milan about ten years ago and came into the office one morning to discover everyone clustered together happily eating cake and drinking coffee. Thought it was someone's birthday.
It turned out that a couple of suspected paedophiles had been released on bail in Naples and thirty minutes later they had both been murdered. The Police investigated for an hour or so and then closed the case. Justice? The people in the office seemed to think so! |
Originally Posted by Martin2005
(Post 7432446)
Id like to see the death penalty introduced for people that post thoughtless and hopelessly inaccurate rants
:hjtwofing |
Originally Posted by Reality
(Post 7432503)
But this is a fault of the criminal justice system and nothing to do with the death penalty. I want to see these criminals locked up for at least 30 years. But state sanctioned murder IS immoral, and it just doesn't work as a deterent. |
Originally Posted by Martin2005
(Post 7432420)
The death penalty is IMMORAL, and those in favour should question their own humanity!
There was an interesting documentary a few years back where they interviewd the families of serial killers victims, and pretty much every single one of them said they'd like to see the killer face the death penalty, as it would be the only way they see proper justice being done. They had had their son / daughter / wife / husband / mother etc taken away from them for life, and yet the killer would be a free person again in 15 odd years. I guess their humanity doesn't come into the equation Martin? |
Originally Posted by Martin2005
(Post 7432539)
and it just doesn't work as a deterent.
That's because they give these scum a nice painless death. Kill the murderers by putting them in a mincer !! |
Originally Posted by Nido
(Post 7432566)
There was an interesting documentary a few years back where they interviewd the families of serial killers victims, and pretty much every single one of them said they'd like to see the killer face the death penalty, as it would be the only way they see proper justice being done.
They had had their son / daughter / wife / husband / mother etc taken away from them for life, and yet the killer would be a free person again in 15 odd years. I guess their humanity doesn't come into the equation Martin? My basic beliefs are that killing is wrong, therefore how could I support the state doing it? Lock them up, it's really that simple. |
Originally Posted by Martin2005
(Post 7432539)
But state sanctioned murder IS immoral, and it just doesn't work as a deterent.
In my mind, it is simply the result of an individuals actions. Murder is immoral because an innocent person is killed due to no fault of their own. Killers hanging from a noose, are in that situation because of a direct consequence of their own actions. They are the ones responsible for their actions, and the consequences that arise from those actions. If one of those consequences is the death penalty, then, in effect, they have committed suicide. Of course, we live in a society today where people are not expected to take reasponsibilty for the actions they make - where they will blame their behaviour on their upbringing, the community they live in, or some other utterly pitiful excuse for their bad behaviour. |
Originally Posted by PeteBrant
(Post 7429163)
No it isn't.
Next. Gut instinct says that scum like this don't deserve to be on the streets and it would be much less expensive to just do away with them! :thumb: BUT When looked at in terms of the objectives of punishment, the death penalty only really works on an "eye for an eye basis". Fine, revenge can be a valid, if dangerous motive. The main problems I have with it are threefold. First, punishment is caried out on behalf of society, i.e. you and I. I don't want anyone killed on my behalf, not even this scum. Reason? I question the moral imperative of any justice system that condemns murder, but then sanctions it as a punishment. Secondly, I think a life in prison is probably a more severe punishment. If it is currently an easy option, that should be changed, but that's not an excuse to bring in the death penalty - make doing time mean something again! :thumb: Thirdly, if the wrong person is convicted, there is nothing that can done once the sentence is executed. In this age of forensics, mistakes are rare, but they still happen and forensics are just a tool used by humans who are notoriously fallable and subject to corruption etc.. A wise man once said that if you wanted to examine the state of a society, look at the way it treats its outcasts! The death penalty, though satisfying on a visceral level, would be a big step back for UK society. Ns04 |
Originally Posted by New_scooby_04
(Post 7432610)
With Pete on this one.
Gut instinct says that scum like this don't deserve to be on the streets and it would be much less expensive to just do away with them! :thumb: BUT When looked at in terms of the objectives of punishment, the death penalty only really works on an "eye for an eye basis". Fine, revenge can be a valid, if dangerous motive. The main problems I have with it are threefold. First, punishment is caried out on behalf of society, i.e. you and I. I don't want anyone killed on my behalf, not even this scum. Reason? I question the moral imperative of any justice system that condemns murder, but then sanctions it as a punishment. Secondly, I think a life in prison is probably a more severe punishment. If it is currently an easy option, that should be changed, but that's not an excuse to bring in the death penalty - make doing time mean something again! :thumb: Thirdly, if the wrong person is convicted, there is nothing that can done once the sentence is executed. In this age of forensics, mistakes are rare, but they still happen and forensics are just a tool used by humans who are notoriously fallable and subject to corruption etc.. A wise man once said that if you wanted to examine the state of a society, look at the way it treats its outcasts! The death penalty, though satisfying on a visceral level, would be a big step back for UK society. Ns04 And as Ghandi once said 'an eye foir an eye, will make the world go blind' What I really object to is the notion that just because I'm vehemently opposed to the death penalty, I'm somehow on the side of the criminal |
I think the argument would disappear if life imprisonment really did mean life imprisonment, not a pathetic 15 years or whatever.
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It wouldn't. Plenty of states in the US have the death penalty for murder, I don't think their homicide stats are anything to envy.
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