Which bit, trying to break it, or running 452 bhp ?

LOL


DunxC

P.S. Is there any stock of Defi's available with green illumination (black face) ?

Haha, it's amazing really, I spent 10 months driving it with some heavy abuse, and couldn't get it to let go. I was hoping it would, I had a fully prepared 2.5L engine waiting to go in. :p

It's a nightmare being held back at only 452 bhp. (Dyno chart available) :)

We're back in at work tomorrow Dunx, give us a call to check availability. Defi are not making the white or black faced gauges anymore, (though we still have some stock of them) only BF's in the 3 colours, but they are going to be doing BF's in 52mm as well.

I have the FP Green on my SM built 2.5 with AVCS, GT Spec II, FMIC and I can tell you it will be plenty responsive enough for anyone I think ;)

It will hit 1.5 bar by 3000 and keep you pinned back into the seat to the redline. :lol1:

Mine is not fully mapped yet but once it is I am expecting nearer 500 bhp from it as it made 438bhp at 1.3 bar 2 weeks ago. (on tesco 99 with no additives)

I have yet to see a company who is willing or capable of fitting these turbos for back to back testing, to prove what is the current best turbo for 2.0ltr and 2.5 ltr cars. Im going with the proven MD series.

Andy

'Best' is pretty subjective if you ask me.

FP Green is absolutely proven in my eyes.

Email Zak @ Mocom, he has done the exact above.

For the record, Zak has a 2ltr JDM STI 8 running an MD321T variant.
I have a UK STI 7 with an FP Green 3" inlet with 7cm hotside.

Both cars have the same headers, intake, injectors etc. Both running 1.6 bar boost.

On tha same road, gear for gear there is virtually nothing between them. Zak has a slight edge on me due to being able to hold his gears longer with an 8K rpm limit.

Other than that, in the real world on real roads there is nothing to choose between the 2 turbos except the cost.

Id say the FP Green is VERY much a proven item, just people reluctant to try something theyre unfamiliar with.

I have the option of fitting an MD321T on my new forged 2.5 that is due to go in soon. However im pretty sure i'll be staying with the green. So far im very very impressed with its performance.

Haven`t seen a single dyno print that actually backs up their statements! Although people seem pretty happy with their turbos, you really don`t know the whole story before someone actually does some testing.

Does your car hit 1.5bar@3000 rpm, or do you THINK it will? 1.5bar@3000rpm without AVCS and\or not fully tuned seems like great numbers with 500bhp as max.

Three overlayed dyno plots from the same car, same fuel dislaying torque, power, boost setting and extra info like afr and ignition timing recorded. Obviously boost would be the same for each comparison.

That would then show which is the best turbo. It could be done again for a 2.5 litre if needed.

The test needs to be done by an independent tuner and mapper with no vested interest in either turbo, to make it fair.

Bany

Why would boost be the same?

Boost is a result of back pressure and that varies per turbo.

You're living in cloud cuckoo land if you think a tuner will spend a couple of days of unpaid time to prove something that is largely irrelevant and depends entirely of what the needs of the end user are.

x turbo produces:
500 bhp at 6500 rpm
500 lb/ft torque at 5000 rpm

y turbo produces:
450 bhp at 6000 rpm
450 lb/ft torque at 4000 rpm

which is the "BEST" ?

Not quite as straightforward as you think.

When do you hit full boost on the 2.0l with the FP green?

Which is why Zak purchased both turbos. He holds no investmenmt with either the MD series or the FP series.

He is able to supply both though.

This thread could go round and round from all the haters and non belivers in each. At the end of the day, people will buy whatever they want to buy.

The Green on my car is supplied by SM and is the 3" inlet and 7cm hotside version.

On delta dash on a stock internaled 2ltr STI 7 with AVCS hits 1bar @ 3000rpm and 1.5bar @ 3400rpm. This was tested in 4th gear.

When i fit the 2.5 i will be swapping the exhaust housing to the 8cm version mainly to cope with the flow of the bigger 2.5. And make better peak power.

We can all point figers at graphs etc etc, but for me its what it does on the road. On the road the turbo feels awesome, thats all i care about.

depends what you set as full boost :D :lol1:

On my 2.5 it 'would' hit 1.6 bar before 3k if I let it, but I am happy to have a more easily driveable and forgiving car in the lower revs (particularly in the winter) and save the violent spooling til further up the range where I specifically want to make rapid progress.

btw - this is on the 8cm hotside unit which is slower spooling than the 7cm kit.

uuups that sounds awesome!
On a 2l it will be about 800rpm later I think, that´s fine too!
A SR55 isn´t near there isn´t it?

I think a couple of days unpaid research would reap massive rewards for someone who could provide evidence that one turbo was superior to another for a given power bracket. If there was only a slight difference in performance from one turbo to another then other factors like cost, would determine which would be best.

Like Ive said, no one is willing and or capable of doing this back to back test and divulging the results.

Like I've said, what do you define as superior?

Like Frayz has said, someone (zak @ mocom) has done this back to back test and is willing to divulge the results

Are you looking to get a great new turbo (it might be that one of the aforementioned turbos might be what YOU need, but then again it depends on what YOU want from it) or just keep a thread going round in circles?

Andy, Back to back is not easy, as each car would have to be running on exactly the same fuel at the same temperatures - airflow and water,

Any car run on a dyno will display different characteristics between a morning run and an afternoon run. Ambient temperature and humidity play a part in confusing the numbers.

Tyre grip on the rollers changes between hot and cold. For example Goodyear Eagles might grip more than Pirelli.

Sure, back to back could/can be done, but the accuracy of the results would always be in doubt. Spool can be seen on a dyno print out, but road driving ' feel ' may prove a better judge. AND so-on.

David APi

Andy,


A "back to back" test has been done by Zak at Mocom on his own car. I had no involvement other than supplying the MD321T.

Zak has told me that "back to back" the MD321T spooled up circa 400rpm earlier, and the throttle response is far better too. Both turbos give similar power at the same boost.

Zak also stated that the results were the best he could get from both turbos on his car.


This is the only way two turbos can be compared. Comparing two different cars, running two different turbos is NOT comparing the turbos, and can be very misleading.

I would also suggest that when people are making a purchasing decision based on posted results, the decision is based on results that are consistently achieved, and not the exception.


Mark.

Thanks Mark and David, everybody makes their own choice after gathering as much info as posibble, mine being a MD ;)

not quite the words zak used when I spoke to him about these

Dynamix,


I can only comment on what Zak told me, and I have been very careful not to misrepresent what he said.

If anything I err'd on the side of caution, and posted "circa 400rpm" earlier spool up, even though he said "400-500rpm".

I specifically asked Zak if given more time he could improve on the result of the Green, and he said no, as it had been on his car for some time, and there was nothing more to come.


I'm sure that if I have misunderstood anything Zak said, he'll correct me.



Mark.

Obviously I wasnt party to that conversation Mark, but I do know my own experiences with the Green are quite different to Zak's as we chat pretty frequently.

Having said that I have not used an MD321T on mine either :)

so what about the FP RED?

Develops more power than the green but even more laggier :lol1: :D






























Yes, I was taking the piss

What turbo do you have Andy?

Do you run a MD321T?

Have you driven a car with an FP green on it?

WHY ISNT NO ONE IS COMMENTING ON THE FP RED?

relax, I was having a joke, you have your opinion and I have mine, Im right though :D

what turbo do you actually have Andy?

Catons - not tried a Red yet, but scheduled to try one back to back against my green in May :D

To satisfy your curiosity MD321

As mentioned above its risky to compare different cars with different turbos, different cars with the same turbo will respond differently.

If you map enough of them however, a trend will start to emerge.

I have mapped 7x 321T's and 2x greens and the general trend thats emerging for me is that both turbos are capable of similar power outputs but the 321T is quicker spooling by around 400 rpm.

Andy