OK.. that makes sense to me, and thanks for answering, and also saying that you understand where we're coming from.

In terms of the on/off thing.. I would honestly say that it isn't right to block them anywhere at all. If you are viewing a site, you are obviously interested in the content, so why shouldn't you use it as they have provided it?

To be honest, its a viscious circle. Ad blockers have a significant impact on scoobynet's income, and the more it becomes a problem, the more we'll be forced to put more intrusive ads up, which will mean more blocking, etc, etc.

We're resisting like crazy, and just hope that enough people will see that viewing a few adverts isn't a big price to pay to have scoobynet here free of charge.

Webmaster,

I am more than happy with the ads and don't personally see them as detrimental in any way. If one interests me I will click it, if not I won't and that is about that for the ads.

One thing though is that since the upgrade to the new version of SN I do feel the site is on average slower than it used to be. Sometimes it is fine, but sometimes the pages load very slowly indeed.

Aside from that I think the new version of the site is great, I even like the fixed width after giving it ago for a few weeks.

Hi f1 fan :)

Thanks a lot for your feedback. We know abou the speed issue and this is being worked on. We're getting closer all the time to finding the solution.

Webmaster:

I am more than happy to contribute to the costs - if I can get the ads removed.

Hello,

As I say it's just the GoogleSyndication that's blocked on here, because it's global. I must say that it is a case of a small number of sites ruining it for others, because some do abuse the placement of the Google ads.

I do actively click and block on various adverts on sites when they have done them in an annoying way - i think it serves them right. Scoobynet is run with more than half a braincell so it's not an issue here.

Cheers :thumb:

I dont' really mind the ads, except the 'Enter Prize' ones. Just please . . . no Zwinky ads :mad:

Personalisation - the same reason that not all people keep a car exactly as supplied by the manufacturer.

Olly

I completely understand that. But you've already paid the manufacturer for the car. You haven't paid scoobynet for the page you've just downloaded.

I'm honestly, really interested to hear any genuine points to support this, so I promise I'm not looking for an argument.

BlkKnight

Thank you very much. To be honest, purely as a sign of decency to you, I would now want to put that in place - purely because you are happy to pay in order to have everything how you want it. This much is completely fine.

What would you say is a reasonable price?

You see, in many ways, it should be based on how much you use the site? But I guess that might be unworkable.

Give me some suggestions, and we'll see what's involved.

I think when the issue of the page loading the banner and ads section at the top first (with a noticable delay before the rest of the pages loads), is resolved, blocking images/ads will not even be necessary.

It's only at work that this is even a bit of issue for me. Morally, I shouldn't be complaining about being paid to look at SN though. :D

Webby, when you say there are only a handful of SN Plus members, are you able to tell us exactly how many that is? It might shame some of our wealthier regular SNetters into paying.

Fook me..... Webby's got a waffle on :D


I'm about to sign up to SN direct ;)

Hi Jerome

I know you realise this, but just to be clear to everyone.. the delay to load the rest of the page has nothing to do with the adverts. Jerome just means that whilst at work, waiting for the rest of the page to load means that the adverts are visible for too long before you can scroll down.

How many plus members? For a number of sensitive reasons, I would really rather not say.. but suffice to say that if we relied on ScoobyNet Plus sign-ups.. and all of our plus members signed up on January the 1st, we would have run out of money about 3 weeks ago.

That's a decision you have to make, if you are not happy with people personalising your content without paying for it first then make SN a pay only site.

Simon,

If you made the whole site pay-to-post then I guess you would find out who was willing to help with the upkeep of the board. The flip side is that you run the risk of finding active members reduced to less than 50 which would be a bit of an own goal.

There are various communities within the wider SN community: Those that still own scoobies and are interested in the tecnical side, those that have moved on but still feel part of the community, those that attend meets, etc etc. Each of these parts builds the wider community and to date, I believe your success and growth has been down to the board being largely free to to use. Look at the pay-to-use forums you have: The lounge and Supermuppets vs. the for sale sections. The members for sale sections are widely used because you are providing a service people want. Ask yourself why people don't use the other sections? There are free alternatives both on SN and on other boards. This is true of the for sale section but you have the largest collection of Subaru-related items under one house.

I guess the challenge for you is to work out why people will pay to post their own adverts but not pay to post elsewhere...


Rich :)

Olly

That's irrelevant. We're not talking about "how to block the ad blockers".. we're talking about "do you think its right to block the ads".

We're providing you content for free. We just ask you download the adverts, so we can pay for it.

Why do you think you deserve to use the site we work to provide for you, without allowing us to pay for it? What gives you the right to download it?

Again.. this is a genuine question, not an argument.

Could SN+ members be spared the ads? Would that cover the cost?

Edit to add, I quite like Something Awful's model of charging everyone $5 to post, not to mention all the other "options" that are available there.

Rich

Insightful post. To be honest, its not mystery.

The benefit a forum provides is tha ability to communicate with lots of people. If you are given access to a forum that does not contain lots of people, then it isn't of as much value to you - hence the subscription forums are very quiet unless someone particularly wants a "play".

The for sale section, isn't really acting as a forum, its acting as a classified for sale section. So this (as you rightly state) is providing a different kind of benefit to a standard forum.

cottonfoo

I think this is a really good suggestion. We'll impliment this asap regardless of the outcome.

There will be a switch in the user cp which will allow plus members to switch the ads off if they want to.

Webbie,

I guess it depends on how much revenue you think you gain from each user on the site.

Give that the SN+ (without pack) is £18.00 - shall we say £15.00? - that's just to have the adds removed - nothing else.

/typo

Why should somebody be excluded if they use a text only browser, as I do on occasion as part of my job?.

BlkKnight

I think that's too much to be honest. I would have said something like £1 per month, so £12..?

It is difficult to try to work out how much an individual user costs / earns scoobynet as it depends on too many factors.

But thanks again. We'll definitely put something in place very soon.. we just need to get the cost right.

Good - sounds like you'll have at least one happy member.

Olly :)

I think you're going off on tangents here. If you're viewing scoobynet as part of your job, I'd be surprised... but anyway...

ScoobyNet Costs money.. agreed?
You downloading a page costs ScoobyNet money.. agreed?

What have you done that entitles you to just cost scoobynet money?

What do we owe you?

I'm just talking about basic morals here. I'm not trying to be clever, or argue. I'm just honestly trying to grasp whether I'm being unreasonable to think that people shouldn't use adblockers.

PS. you say "Why should they be excluded"... why don't you ask "Why should the be INCLUDED?"

Simon,

We enjoy using SN - lets face it, we would be elsewhere doing something else otherwise. Nobody is making us use the board. Obviously we want the board to continue and prosper and as a minimum it should really be able to cover it's bills. I see the mystery as how can it do this, retaining the faithful and bringing in the new?

I think part of the key is about the value-added services that you can and do provide that make people want to be members. I see no problem with the ads in their current form, maybe a chore on the eye to some but it's not the end of the world.

Maybe it's worth canvassing some opinion as to what people want from the site so you have some focus? At the moment it sounds like throwing darts at a board in a cellar with no lights - just my perception again.

The bottom line is that we alll may whine and complain about the site and the mods and this and that at times but we keep coming back so you are obviously doing something right :thumb:

Rich :)

I didn't say that, I said the browser that I often use as part of my work is text only, so if I do view SN, I do so without the images and adverts as Lynx doesn't support them.

Nothing, as I said, feel free to make SN a pay for access only site.

I can't believe some people get so worked up about something that I'd not even noticed until this thread appeared:wonder:

I'm 100% with Simon here, unless people are prepared to put their hands in their pockets, they should either accept the (hardly obtrusive) methods Simon & Shaun use to fund the site, or fcuk off;)

I must say I've only had two issues with the remodelling work at this point Simon, one was the fixed width, and the other is the at times chronic slowness:( You've fixed the first, and are working on the second, good enough for me:thumb:

Oooh, a SN revenue thread I've not yet commented on! ;) :D

I'm not a fan of adverts, be they GoogleAds or otherwise. I *do* have PithHelmet (It's an Advert Blocker) installed, but at present it is disabled. I *think* it's possible to configure it on a site by site basis as to what is shown, thus you could remove adverts from all sites except ScoobyNet, thus not preventing revenue being collected by SN.

I moan and complain a lot about SN, as Shaun and Simon well know :D but despite this I have not disabled the adverts, I just happen to ignore them, as I do on most sites, but I'm not blocking them.

I came here when I was first looking at an impreza, to gain advice, which I did, I also found a community of mostly friendly people and over the years have made and kept many friends. I don't have a Subaru at present and I'm not even in the UK so I don't get to see many of the friends as much as I used to but I can keep in touch via here. I try to contribute to the community via the Computer Related section, so feel like I'm giving a little back for all I have taken.

If there was an Advert Free subscription would I take advantage of it? No, I would not as mentioned above the ads don't bother me, and to be quite frank, and call me immoral or dishonest if you like, I'd block them if they did bother me.

As we have touched on the issue of a closed paid-for forum, I'll weight in on that as well. It's an interesting idea, those who really like SN will pay up, those who don't, or are only here to cause trouble probably won't (if they do then they really are very sad individuals indeed). This, at first though sounds like a good idea, as it'd clear up some of the issues that have been discussed time and time again. However, the problem is that new users may not want to pay a monthly/yearly fee to use a forum where they may only want to ask a quick question.
So it's a very tricky balancing act. Perhaps have a general free-for all forum for the newbies, so they can get a quick answer and a feel for things, and then maybe decicde to pay the membership fee to join up.

When it comes to the fee, I'm not overly keen on monthly/yearly, unless it's a somewhat low figure, say a max of £10 per year. What might be more appealing to people is a one off fee which gives lifetime membership to the forum, say £25. I think this might be seen as some to be pretty good value, plus, if it's a mandatory fee then you don't pay, you don't play.

SJ

We ran a survey at the top of every page of scoobynet for this very reason, and the changes that have happened have been a result of nearly 10,000 submissions to this survey.

-

Olly

Either you don't understand or you're avoiding the point. If its the latter, please let me know to save me having to keep asking it in different ways.

I'll try it again in a number of different ways. If you could actually try to answer them I'd appreciate it. If you don't, I'll just assume you're trying not to.

1) Why do you have the right to download pages at a cost to ScoobyNet?

2) What makes it morally correct for you to decide that ScoobyNet should pay for your internet useage?

3) Do you think you are being morraly fair to ScoobyNet by costing us money through your own personal choices.