https://www.scoobynet.com/scooby.php...to&photoid=608

or

https://www.scoobynet.com/scooby.php...to&photoid=606

20 years apart and the 911 is very nearly as fast as the Sti. but beween this pair I'll take the Sti any time, except for nice lazy summer weekends and evenings....


All down to power to weight?

Indeed. With 60k you could buy a new Type 25 (all the performance car you would ever realistically need) and have a good deal of change left! Give Porsche 60k and you'll get a Carerra 2 (?) which, image and build quality aside, simply wouldn't be a big enough of a step up from a top Subaru or Evo for me. Only a 911 turbo or GT2/3 would appeal TBH.

And, incidentlally, I know at least one person with a GT3 who told me that hand on heart, much as they love their Porsche, the Subaru (admitedly a quite heavily modified one) is still their preferred car.

Oh, to be spoilt for choice :thumb:

Ns04

Scoob - For everyday driving on A and B roads
911 - For the track or the autobahn

One isnt better than the other - they just do different things very well.

Steve

Could not have been said any better!.

But the Scoob for the track is good too!

But unfortuantely most European roads do not have the quality of the Autobahns.....so the 911 is a bit out of place.

Agree totaly - they are both good on a track and both good on the road.
I drive in Germany alot as well as the UK and I would say (very very broad generalisation) that many german roads really suit the porker and you would sometimes use a scooby to less effect than in the UK. And it is the vice versa in the UK -scoobs come into there own on the often damp narrow road we have in the UK and definately has the edge on the porker. Especialy the understear thing on the limits of its grip - which often needs less room to sort out, the kind of limited room you often find on a damp B road. Then again porkers brutaly quick at the top end on the autobahn and the overstear thing comes into its own on the track or on some of the wide sweeping bends I often come across on A roads in Germany.
Obviously there are great Scooby roads in Germany and Great Porker roads in the UK. Both great cars but do different things very well.

Don't agree with that! I've had a my99ppp, my03sti, 996 carrera2, and now lucky enough to have a 996 turbo. Without doubt the easiest car to drive fast is the 996tt. It at 7/10ths will blow the doors off most well driven cars. Never been on a track so can't comment there (but general porsche forum consensus is turbo isn't best for track work, gt3's a lot better). Only problem with the throwing the turbo about is you know its an awful lot of money to fix if you bin it!!!

that last comment couldn't be more true , i live in mid , north wales and if you make a mistake on our roads. well ,,,,,,,,,,anyway over the years i have owned sheds and now i own an expensive shed and it does go through your mind that if you crash it will be far more money to fix .............i know, but when you are booting it you never think about the squashy bit behind the wheel , do you ??

You ceretainly don't.


I was near Aberdare the other week & had enormous fun on a very wet & windy day and, that was without the beans.

Came round a bend & found 2 cars in the middle of the road having a chat!! only the grass verge for me to play with!

Made it, and as you say,the squashy bit behind the wheel wasn't considered.

So what do you do??

Got back up on Mr Scooby and continued where I left off.

Andrex in the car is so useful!!

Your right but surely driving the turbo at 7/10s is safer than say an sti at 9/10ths, eg more grip, braking ability etc in reserve? Therefore in a twisted way i drive a 996 turbo because its safer, officer ;)

Even if colin mcrae was driving the car i don't think i would need andrex, new pants/trousers maybe lol

Agree with this train of thought.
I also feel that on the limits of grip then I would prefer to be in a Scoob on a damp B road.

In a situation like in the German test then the porker definately looked like the more composed car. The guy said that the stearing feel was better in the porsche and that 8,000 euro ceramic brakes were superb
Steve

why would you rather be in the scoob, just out of interest? If i remember correctly, theres no electronic aids bar dccd on scoobs (and not all have that) but theres Porsche Stability Management on the turbo. Surely having something that can work out how not to have the crash is better, eg it will correct oversteer, understeer, loss of traction on each wheel, steering inputs etc. Don't know about which would be safer in the crash though. Head first might be better in porsche, no engine to squash you and integral protection cell built in but bum first might allow a big heavy boxer six to move things about a bit!

The fact it lacks all those "wheelchair" aids just shows how well the Scoob is built!!! DUH!

Mercs are an example of how they need 600,000,000 electronic aids just to drive in a straight line!

Porsche has loads of aids too, prolly to help those yuppies when they try (try, really) to show off!!

Doesn't matter how good a car is it can't read the future eg large pothole, flood, tractor, whatever on the road ahead.
Mercs don't have have buttons to turn all those yuppie aids off for track days/clear roads, guess which manufacture does? ;) But obviously this would only be when a subaru driving god is in the drivers seat lol

You got too be joking, they are crap at reviewing cars. Autobild says it all. :Suspiciou

Here are a couple of discusions from a few years back with SDB. I am not saying either of us is right or wrong but it outlines the reasons why I personaly feel the scoob is the better place to be in those B road situations
cheers
Steve :)

https://www.scoobynet.com/archive/in.../t-348011.html

https://www.scoobynet.com/archive/in.../t-338799.html

Very sweeping statement.

If I could afford a 911, why would I not buy a scoob?

Spot on my thinking mate :thumb:

Ta :thumb:

I'm with you. I wouldn't buy the porsche.

You lot must be a bit younger than me then!

Back in the Old days there was no Japanse sports cars worth putting on your walls. It was all Countach, 911 Turbo, Ferraris etc.

Read your/the threads with interest and while i agree with mostly whats being said i think you missed my point, ie theres no way you can react quicker than a processor thats sampling whats happening 100's of times a second. Hence i feel if you had the psm switched on (which at least 90% of folk would do imho) you would be safer in the porsche driving at the same speed as a subaru with nothing but your driving skills to help you.

Big reply coming up LOL :)

On one hand. I would rather used my computer (my brain) to keep a car on the road. Rather like I would rather be able to use an OS map and then use sat nav as an additional aid. Not put all my trust in a bit of technology. However this is more of an old fashioned point of view.

On the other hand. You have a valid point, and it is something I have discussed before. The drivers aids you now find on modern top of the range german cars are outstanding. I have recently experinced this on the CLK and M3. With the aid fully switched on - unbelievable - these cars stick to the road like glue. I personaly am very impressed with it but find it all a bit unerving as at big speeds a computer is keeping the car on the road for you - not your brain. So I feel at bit like a passenger and less involved with the drive. I like to take a car to that window where it is begining to lose grip - then I know where I am with it.

The new M3 for example - is great in the respect that you can have the traction controll totally on. when you switch it off (it is actually only partialy switched off) and will still kick in if things get badly out of shape. If you hold the button down for more tham 15 secs then it is totally off - for that trip to the track. So you can set it for whatever type of driving you happen to be into that day.

60% - 70% of driving a car quickly but safely down a stretch of road is down to the person behind the wheel. The rest is down to the car itself. So the human computer is the one to get right and the cars computers are the secondary nice add ons.

However these modern drivers aids as found in your top of the range german stuff - make cars much safer when the unexpected happens - so have a huge positive in their favour. Conversly they instill a false sense of security within many of the people that drive them - who dont look at themselves but are blinded by the car.

However you can only use computers to defy the laws of physics for so long.
We found this out when we put the latest Volvo s40 T5 past the limits of its grip with and with out traction control on - to see how it would behave.

Porsche make great cars. My favourite was 968 sport - I really enjoyed that. So not knocking them at all.
But on the limits of grip on a wet twisty road I would rather be in the simple scoob using my brain to find the cars limits. Not some fantastic bit of technolgy that can defy the laws of physics - but only up to a point.

Hopefully this is a balanced answer outlining the pros and cons
Cheers
Steve

not such a big reply coming up...
i see what your saying but i still think your veiwing it from a different perspective to me ;)
If you drive the cars upto a certain standard/level of ability they will both be very safe but i was just trying to make it clear that when the sh1t hit the fan the car with the aids would have a safety net AS well as the drivers talent to help it out. Eg it will give you a split second to try and catch the slide, loss of grip or whatever. I admit all systems don't do this but my one does, and hence its one i feel i can comment on truthfully. Therefore i think it is only keeping you on the road AFTER the driver has over stepped his/her (must be pc here!) and the cars limit, not as you suggest in your last paragraph putting blind faith in the system and letting it try and sort it out. Now whether someone should be driving outside there/the cars limits is a completely different topic but hopefully you can also appreciate the point i'm trying to make.
ps not been on here much in the last few years but good to come back and get some decent replies;)

scooby for me,dont get me wrong the 911 is still a great car just to old hat now:)

Why not? I'm interested in your reasoning.

Because plenty of the people in my street who own £2 million+ houses seem to be happy with their £4000 Volvo S40s and Ford Focuses.

exactly if i had 60 grand for a car i wouldnt buy a car but looks basicly the same as it did 30 odd years ago.id save some money and buy somthing like a honda nsx:)

Are you on drugs?

Yeah but they are clearly not car enthusiasts.

I stand by my statement that people who can afford to spend £60k on a car, and who actually want to spend it on a car will not look at jap crap :thumb:

no why are you ?whats up cant you take it when someone has a different opinion to you,if you like the porche go buy one.there just not my thing digbert:cuckoo: