How can I put it best? NO.

Why on earth should I and other like me who disagree with the policy keep quiet? What we should be doing is saying that we feel sorry for the poor manipulated retards in the forces and that we'd like them home as soon as possible.

I suppose you think the German people should have had respect for their WaffenSS in WWII do you?

why are they retards Vapid? most of them of probably considerably better educated than yourself, and unlike the a few, decided that they would want to take an active part in their countries development, and maybe had a sense of duty sadly lacking in our money grabbing, "i am considerably better than you" culture of today.

And to answer you point many german people DID have respect for not only the Waffen SS but also the Panzer divisions and Luftwaffe, the reason being that they brought prestige back to a country decimated due to it's own follies in WW1 and the ensuing crippling treaties such as Versailles.

I'm sure your white feather is in the post

Disagreeing with policy is fine.

Being abusive to the implementers of that policy rather than the makers just shows a lack of understanding.

But then as you're clearly trolling I dont suppose you give a ****.

I'd start by saying I was afraid of flying ;)

They may have been proud of them but was that pride morally correct? I think not, they were also proud of the pogroms.
I'm fully aware of the emasculation many Germans felt as a result of Versailles (not to mention the economic effects of reparations). There's no requirement whatsoever for you to try and give me a history lesson in reply to a point you clearly didn't understand.

As for most forces personnel being better educated than myself that's laughable.

I put it to you if they had a real sense of duty they wouldn't be the paid puppets of the most corrupt regime we've seen in the west since Hitler himself. Or are they only 'following orders?'

Real courage is taking the fight to the man not being his dog.

Vapid clearly if you had elborated on your point rather than leaving it open and ambiguous, then clearly there wouldn't have been a misunderstanding. It is the not the fault of the audience if you can't articulate correctly. :freak3:


Most corrupt regime in the West, i hardly think we deserve that title, after all the USA holds that title against all comers. :norty:

However as for real courage i can see that you are a man clearly brimming over with moral fibre and self rightous courage. I can barely contain my anticipation at your stand against the axis of evil that is the Blair- Bush coaltion. Please let me know when you are going to undertake your coup and i will get the popcorn ready. Afterall a man (i hope i assume correctly) of your clearly high educational standards, sense of duty, coupled with a forth right nature will not idlely sit by and let this regime continue.

Or maybe you'll just sit on your ass in front of the computer troll till it's time to go home, ask your Boss if you can leave yet, and can you have an early finish on friday as the Mrs wants you to paint the back room.

Ask nicely and i'll give you your eyes back later. You Walt

Vapid,

You are missing the point entirely. People join their country's armed forces to provide security to the nation - and when we sign on the dotted line we agree to obey whatever orders come our way (with a few exceptions, but I really can't be arsed to go into detail right now).

We are not 'poor manipulated retards',as you so delicately put it, but are actually very well informed, educated professionals. If we wanted to change/make the world's/country's policies we would have gone into politics.

As for saying that you want the troops home as soon as possible; probably not a good idea after the things you've been calling them on here!

FAO Drunken Bungle Whore: Admitting to being gay no longer gets you dismissed from the forces, but drug taking and other misdemeanors will.

Anyone in the military can get out early if they fight it legally. It has been done in the past but as always the military keep it under wraps and very quiet!

Its something to do with the employment law, in the forces you need to give 12 months notice to leave! As a civvy all you are required to give is the frequency you are paid. So if your paid weekly, a weeks notice, monthly a months notice! They get paid monthly in the forces so why cant they also give 1 months notice to leave!

12 months is a long time to go on with if you are unhappy in your job, you say he signed up for it? Yeah he did, but circumstances change, you may have a baby, you may have been offered a job on 2/3 times your wage, you may have lost a family member and need to move back home for comfort.

The military do it for a reason and that is to keep you as long as possible, and try to change your decision!

Get a half decent lawyer and this 12 months thing wouldnt stand up in any court! I dont know how the military continually get away with it tbh!

Do those misdemeanours get you dismissed, or just result in a stint in Colchester nick? Or a stint in the nick, followed by getting dismissed?

All depends on the extent of the 'crime'. As far as i'm aware, failing a drugs test would result in administrative action, ie. discharge. However, crimes such as AWOL and also those covered by the civvy law would more than likely see you in Colchester for a stretch and then discharge.

As far as leaving before your time, Mitchy260 is correct. The European Court of Human Rights states that you only have to serve a notice period equal to that of your salary frequency and it is against their resolutions to hold someone in a job they no longer want for longer than this period.

As far as circumstances changing; I'm sorry, but sh1t happens to all of us and you signed up to do a duty. It is, however, a problem that many people don't fully appreciate the commitment they are making and I believe it should be the job of the recruiters to fully explain this to potential soldiers/sailors/airmen.

There are also many other ways.

Go AWOL for a week, turn up at the gates and hand yourself in! You'll go in front of the CO and be charged with going AWOL. You will then get a sentence of around 5-7 days in colchester detention centre. Whilst in colchester you get the decision on whether you want to stay in or be discharged!

That would get you out within a month if you are willing to spend 1 week in colchester.

You dont just need to go AWOL, you can whack an officer, fail a drugs test, anything that will get you sent to colchester! You can even go to the medical centre, and be medically discharged? Depression and mental health, turn into a loony, do weird things whilst at work and you will be discharged medically.

Dont know why he has set up a website, when there are so many options of getting out the forces quickly.

what!!! they cant find a job by themselves, they have to have specialist help, as they have no concept of civvy street, Often they are are clueless unless someone is giving them orders every 5 minutes, and think everyone must call them Sir or be in awe of what they did / do.

Mart

Thats quite a blinkered view you have there mate.:lol1:

Military personnell are very highly trained in there chosen field (Engineering/communications/medical etc), well disciplined, respectful, good team players, trustworthy and confident. Thats what military life does to someone!

You cant say that about the majority of civvy's buddy!

If there were 2 people applying for a job, both with the same qualifications, same skills etc. 1 was ex military, the other not. I would choose the military guy every single time!

More fool you then.... The ex. military are trained NOT to think for themselves and haven't a clue about industry or the commercial world beyond the Stations front gates...... :)

Bollocks, how would you know:lol1:

Military personnel have got a lot more to offer than your average civvy, the main attributes in my above post!

No way, they have no real world experience, fact... I mean look at your use of the word 'civvy' it's almost derogatory... there's an unfounded arrogance within you! and the truth is the 'civvy' is far better able to cope in the real world and relate to others without the need for a support infrastructure that servicemen come to rely on...........;)

DCI - Licenced to disagree :D

''Civvy'' is a slang term for a civilian just like ''squaddie'' is a slang term for a soldier.

It is not derogatory at all :p

A few points to field here I'll do them in point form so as not to confuse the less insightful intellects on the thread with 'ambiguity'

1. Ambiguity aka giving people enough rope to hang themselves with. Whether or not something is left deliberatly ambiguous the way the reader chooses to perceive it tells you a lot about them. In this case that they are an idiot. :)

2. The UK is part of the US regime

3.The axis of evil as you put it is the entire system- a system I'm currently beating.

Moving onto another poster 'digit person'

The armed forces do not provide security to the nation. This is a fallacy. What they do is act as the tool of elite echelons of society. Protect vested interests and if need be used as a cosh to keep dissenters in the population down. They are not the friend of the people, they are the enemy. As you freely admit you sign on the dotted line and do what you are told. This is absolute and concrete proof of stupidity.

Brilliant Vapid utterly brilliant could you please list the way you are covertly beating the system?

Maybe you walk to work or maybe use a bike so that you aren't using the main interest of this terrible evil, oil. Please don't say you use north sea derived petrol or diesel as this is mixed with the lower grade arabian crude before refining.

Hold on a minute that computer your using, hmm plastic cased, a product of crude oil. Using maybe a microsoft product to run it, linked to this terrible evil power in the west afterall they provide many military system.

Vapid you are a troll of the lowest order you don't even have the slightly twisted humour of Rabid, who may have annoyed most but occasionally had a few good points.

By the way your online name is well chosen.

"lacking in tang, briskness or force, flat or dull"

seems to sum you up particularly well

So funny, I work in oil and I'm beating the system by taking from it and not giving. I'll leave it to you to work that one out I wouldn't want to go into details and incriminate myself.;)

The name is an oxymoron- glad you like it.

I know what it stands for..... :rolleyes:

It's the method by which you chose to interject said word that 'implies' it was intended to be used in a derogatory manner.... ;)

Feckin thick squaddies...... :D

DCI,

Your objectionable remarks with respect to the British Forces are shameful in the extreme and I think the Mods should take note of your behaviour.

Les :(

Oh really, well I stand by MY opinion Les.... so stick that in your pipe and smoke it... :thumb:

Leslie, the UK isn't a dictatorship quite yet so people are allowed to say whatver they please about the armed forces or the police for that matter.............

Personally I don't buy the idea that the armed forces are 'Our Boys' I see them for what they are an army of trained thug killers who'll murder on command.

Les,

Please enlighten me where I am 'shameful in the extreme'

That was a J-O-K-E you idiot........:rolleyes:

Stand by that 110% What's your problem with that?.......:rolleyes:

Stand by that 110%..... In reply to a statement that servicemen make better employees in the private sector than 'civvy's'......... :rolleyes:

At the risk of getting the thread back on topic, getting kicked out of the forces by misbehaviour or drug taking could seriously harm your future job prospects. I for one would not hire someone discharged in this way, any more than if they'd been sacked from a civvy job.

I also think it is a myth that service personnel have no idea about business or the real world. That may be true for some people who have spent 22 years in the forces, but the services are keen to send people on courses to get them ready for the transition to civvy street nowadays.

Also, I've worked with many ex services people (who had recently left the services), and not one of them found the transition to civvy street difficult.

If I was desperate to get out of the services, I would first approach my CO and explain the situation. There are many different options depending on why you are unhappy in the first place. Sometimes a simple transfer to another base/unit is all that is required. A sensible CO will not want a very dissatisfied person in their unit - it is bad for operational effectiveness, not to mention morale. You'd be surprised at how the rules could be bent to speed up your exit from the services.

It's a myth?........ then

You admit it is true, albeit in certain cases..... then.....

They have to be 'trained' for the transition to civvy street...... that means they don't relate or understand it... so they have to be taught....:rolleyes:

They may be having a whale of a time.... but best speak to their employer for some real opinions of their performance!

I mention that some who have served 22 years have problems. Only a small percentage of people do 22 years in the services these days, so we are talking about a very small percentage.

The training is more to do with getting up-to-date skills, such as computer courses, for those that have few skills that transition well to civvy street. An infanteer could be a likely candidate for this re-skilling (although even this is less likely nowadays compared to 20 years ago).

Also, do you think that service personnel are kept locked up on base for their entire career? They are allowed out into the big wide world. Most bases have civilian contractors, suppliers etc, so service personnel see civvies at work often every day. On normal routine (ie not on exercise or active service), service personnel work an 8.00-5.00ish working week Monday to Friday with most weekends off.

As for the performance of ex-service personnel, they are, in my experience, more likely to make the civvy staff look bad than the other way around. Their training is almost always superior to civilian training and they aren't afraid of hard work.

Even if an ex-serviceman/woman has some adjusting to do, they are likely to have many other skills and abilities (not to mention strength of character) that far outweigh this period of adjustment. Service personnel are used to change and are good at adapting anyway.

Do you have some axe to grind about (ex-)service personnel?

Nope, I come into contact with a few.......... but you will only EVER hear OTHER ex-service people singing their praises...... Industry in general shuns them........ ;)

Fairy snuff. We obviously have opposing experiences of them. There are some biffas in the services, maybe you've just met your fair share of them. :)