So use your hand! I place one hand over the keypad and use the fingers of the other to hit my PIN. After a while you don't need to see the numners - just use a *pattern*. That way noone can see my PIN even if they have a peep-hole camera right above it. (And I do check for that first at cash machines!!).

Dave

Well yes i use my hand -as i do at ATM machines, as I am not a retard- but that doesnt disguise the fact that the implementation of chip and pin compared to europe is pretty poor.

Have used debit card and pin over here since I got here. Very simple and easy to use. Most places have some sheilding around the pin pad so the white trash and wannabe gansta's can't nick your pin and then go shopping for skin tight leggings, in the case of the trash, or for drugs/guns/ammo/bling for the wannabe gansta's

unlike the UK where I never had to pay to get a chequebook, you do over here, plus you're charged when you use, and I think, recieve a check. All included in the lovely per monthly charge for having a bank account, which annoys the hell out of me as I never recall being charged to have an account in the UK

There was a power cut round here a couple of weeks ago - all the shops on one side of the road couldnt accept chip and pin and didnt have back up paper slips. It was cash, cheque or nothing. Luckily the nearest ATM was on the opposite side of the road so not affected by the power cut - and that only gives out £20 notes (another sign of things to come?)

Try adminorstrating C+P, its a fooking nightmare!!! Its 70% of my daily work :mad:

:D I know what you're going through, believe me...

Did you have a card issued in the Euro zone then?

Chip and Pin has reduced my credit card usage to online only I am sure this is a success it’s saving me money :)

They want to make it difficult for me therefore I don’t use it, back to cash and impulse shopping stops as well saving me more :)

Also a couple of months back I found a Waitrose that didn’t have C&P on the Kings road in Chelsea when I asked why the staff member said that the customers didn’t like it so they didn’t use it so at least some body listens.

I wonder how many people that complain about chip and pin (which is a very simple concept, even for old biddies to grasp) are also the sort that go into the bank to withdraw £20 over the counter all the time.

I'd MUCH rather use chip and pin than a signature. Signature's are pointless and crap at preventing fraud. No-one checks them and no-one can sign like their sig on the card and hardly any staff are trained in signature recognition.

How is it a nightmare? What are you doing wrong? I'm sure you can find a way to make it a lot easier for you saving time as well. I assume you're a retailer of sorts?? I'm intrigued to know why administering such a thing is any more difficult than administering the 'old' system.

I dont like Chip and Pin because it is yet another pin number and if i make them all the same then somebody looking over my shoulder would be able to access every thing.

i find it easyier now to use cash as i had got into the bad habbit of just putting every thing on the credit card and also if the retailer says my signature isnt good enough to purchase items that is fine i will use cash or shop else where or do with out.

As said above there is to much moving towards having eletronic ways of tracking us in our personal life, shopping habbits etc using cash and loyalty card just makes me feel a little bit less a number on somebody's PC to be monitored and targeted for unwanted junk mail etc.

I actually work for a back office company (work behind the scene of banks etc).

The numpties tell their clients nothing, so we get inundated will questions like this card doesn't work, why?? And thats from the banks after he clients complained!!! and its thier fault!

Also the c+p card replacement was a nightmare, 70k+ cards had to be reissued, and we did 3 batches like that for 1 customer!!!

On the whole the big techie problems haven't been a prob, its the stupid stuff that takes the time.

Out of interest, why did they have to be reissued?

Cos the card being replaced didn't have a chip on them.

Ah, I see. I thought you meant that chip cards were issued, then had to be reissued 3 times.

Why do you have to remember a new pin? The pin is the same as the one that you use in the ATM's all the time.

I'm guessing that this is the PIN for a credit card, rather than a debit/ATM card.

Well from my clients point of view. When we reissue new cards we reissue new pins as well, unless told not to. However their is nothing stopping you changing it to what ever you want in the normal old fashion.

This applies to all cards, not just credit ones.

Which one, if you don't mind me asking? And what software do you use for card issuance/ txn processing?

I'll answer that via another question. Are you based in Sheffield or Harrogate?

Neither. London.

go on then, who else will own up to hammering in the digits almost through the back of the machine because it won't accept your (wrong) pin no.?

i even raised my voice to tell 'the ba5stard machine to work':rolleyes: realised my mistake, proclaimed 'that thing is buggered', before paying in cash and walking back past a queue (that wasn't there when i started) looking like a walk of shame person off weakest link:o

oh how the attendant at the shell garage laughed when i went in there the next week, card in hand:mad:

As someone else pointed out, the whole reason for C&P is not to prevent fraud. It's to shift the burden of fraud from the banks (as it is with signatures) to the customer/retailer. Security doesn't come into it - the fraud methods just get changed to suit ....

Dave

Well, ultimately the banks lose money when fraud happens. They'll pick a system that reduces that loss (i.e. the fraud) using a better system than the sig version which is ridiculously easy to do. There's too many laws and legislation to protect the consumer so the burden will never be able to be put onto the customer. The retailer will have more of a burden but this is no bad thing. It's this area where much of the fraud happens as it's this area where the crims get hold of your info (discarded till receipts, copying sigs etc.).

The thing you have to remember with banks is that they are normally motivated to change by one of three things:

Consumer Pressure / Competition (i.e. paying interests on current accounts - NatWest had that built into their computer systems in 1970 - when did they actually start paying interest??)

Legislation (i.e. money laundering)

and

Costs. All financial institutions have an amount of risk and loss that they are prepared to accept. When this breeches a certain level (i.e. the solution costs less to implement than the average yearly losses), then they will act. C&P is a bit of a funny one as the change isn't likely to have a massive impact.

There has already been a sharp rise in CNP (Cardholder Not Present) fraud, specifically because of C&P, so you do have yo ask yourself why they are doing it. Criminals ain't stupid - all they will do is look for the next weak link. What C&P does do, as has already been stated is shift the onus of fraud detection towards the retailer.

Another good example of 'security' is the additional 3 figure number that is on the back of your card. The idea being that you need the physical card and this provides a degree of protection for online trading.

However, the figure on the back of the card isn't random, but is actually calculated by a mathmatical algorithym that uses the number on the front of the card. So if you know the algorithym, you know the secondary number...

When I found this out - I couldn't work out why they did this. Surely, a random number would be more secure? So again, you have to ask yourself just how seriously they take this (and what the true purpose really is). This will continue until legislation is introduced that makes the financial institutions liable for all frauds. Then you would see real change!

In my case I've never really used cash machines in the past 10 years, so did not know my pin number for years. Quite happily signed for things. Now I cannot do that anymore so have to memorise a pin.