Nacro,

Your ignorance astounds me.

I have no vested interest in MG Rover but I do take an interest in British industry.

I have no idea what you do but you sound to me like one of the worst sort of self centred city boys.

British industry in general has to compete with cheap foreign imports from third world slave labour and heavily government subsidised foreign goods. Every other EU country seems to operate outside of EU law except for the UK. This country is loosing it's industry base and I for one believe the economy will suffer heavily in the future for our neglect to do something today. The fastest growing economies in the world China and India are pushing there industrial base to underpin their economy, we seem to be undermining ours.

I'm sure MGR would have liked to have bought in all new models in the first year but that isn't possible, new car development takes time and money. IMO MG-Rover have done a good job selling the old cars and have done even better with the "Z" cars. The facelifts are designed to keep the cars selling before the launch of the 45 replacement towards the end of the year. The City Rover is around £500 to expensive IMO but the tie in with TATA is a bigger picture, MGR want to sell the old MGR platform cars in the vast Indian market. Even a Rover 45 is ultra Modern in India. :)

It's a brave plan and a big gamble that Phoenix took on, currently they are not far off their original business plan, it will be a major turn round if they pull it off and I wish them the best of luck.

Lee

Dear oh dear Nacro :rolleyes:

think the real question is why on earth anyone would want to save MGR,

A large industry based in the UK is worth putting some effort into making it a viable long term business. Why? For the benefits it would bring to the UK economy as a whole for starters.

even if I had the power to wave a magic wand and solve all their problems I wouldn't be interested in doing it.

more fool you then.

MGR doesn't deserve to exist because it produces outdated and in my opinion, overpriced and mostly crap cars. That being the case why would you want it to survive?

What's all this 'deserve' rubbish? Whether a company 'deserves to exist' in your not very humble opinion is completely irrelevant.

Yes their product range is old - very in some cases. MGR put into place a plan to rectify that as soon as they took control. Any person with half a brain can see that this takes huge amounts of money to do 'going it alone'. Money MGR does not have.

So, to continue to exist, they have to form partnerships. Many other car manufacturers are also doing this. I guess they don't deserve to exist in your view either?

To provide work for gormless midlanders? Not a good enough reason I'm afraid.

Sinking to what you perceive to be their level?

Well ive always said it.
Rover MG group, spent a few quid adding spoilers to there cars, and thats as far as it goes.

The cars have been left dated and still unreliable........
Its only time until the company close there doors, they havent the money to make 'new' models. Only the money to add a different spoiler here and there !

Its only time..................

As I understand it the first new car (Codename RD60) the 45 replacement is due out late 2004/early 2005.

The 75/ZT was the most reliable car in its class in the JD Power / Topgear survey and the 2004 Used Car buyer awards ( Panel made up of Jurno's and Industry specialists) voted the 75 not only best in class but most reliable in class and best used car 2004 overall, the 5 series has won the last two years.

As for sales the 75 was the second best seller in it's class outselling the X Type, C Class and A4. Even outsold the new Vectra.

Not bad for a dead company, the 45 replacement can't come quickly enough though.

Lee

[Edited by logiclee - 1/18/2004 6:21:30 PM]

I love the way some people try to sell their personal opinions as fact. Why on earth you feel the need to be so defensive I'll leave to the imagination.

I've really only ever said what I believe, that MGR are doing a bad job of producing mostly bad cars. It's part of their heritage after all. I'm quite happy to sit here and see who turned out to be right- because it will be me.

I'm not even going to start talking about corruption- we can leave that for another thread.

I love the way some people try to sell their personal opinions as fact

You must really love yourself then.



I'll guess the rest of your post was your way of saying "I know I'm on a looser here, so I'll just backdown quietly"

Not at all, if that's how you see it fine. I'm not on a loser, my point about MGR's cars being a load of outdated tat is as valid as it comes. All I ever hear is excuses from the defenders, well we waited for the new product range, it's late and what has been delivered is a load of old crap.

As I say I find people's blindness amusing.

logiclee,

Thanks for that - had a look ... someone wrote:

>>Hmmm..... too much like<< (no names, no pack drill ....:D)

but then, with the passing of time, they all start to look the same .... and sometimes it's deliberate! Just look at all the Focus clones on the roads today ......

Nacro, MGR's being crap is just your opinion and thats it. You slated my sisters MGTF, and it has turned out to be a fine car, no problems, no little niggles, no foibles, just a good car.

I still believe Britain and all people living in Britain should stand up for MG-Rover, lets get a bit of patriotism back and maybe we can oust the crap Labour government then.

As for corruption, every big company and government has corruption in the ranks. Try finding out how George Dubya got elected ;)

quote: "Nacro, MGR's being crap is just your opinion and thats it"

Yes it is and I'm entitled to it aren't I?

The facts that MGR has an outdated product range isn't my opinion however. Neither are the results that most of their product line received in JD power surveys.

What I will say is what I've said all along the 75 is a pretty good car and has done well in the market place and in surveys such as JD power. The rest of the range hasn't performed well and is in dire need of replacment. In the past people on here harped on about how City Rover was going to save the company, now MGR are actually selling that crock of sh1t they all seem to be looking to the next disaster to save MGR as city rover clearly isn't going to do it. Looks like "streetwise" is another MGR disaster as well.

Streetwise................ MGR in touch with what the customer wants :rolleyes:

The so called 'New' Rover 45 is still built on the 'Old' Rover 45 Platform.

The 45 will be face lifted this year and then will be replaced with the "RD60". The RD60 is in fact based on a shortened and modified 75 platform.

Lee

Isn't RD60 very overdue now?

So the new rover 45 thats coming this year, has new bumpers and headlights.

Nice ................

The facelifts are a little more than bumper and light changes, quite a bit of interior mods too for the 45, the 25 especially...

Oh the RDX60 I'm sure hasnt got a shortened 75 platform it has the same wheelbase but much less overhang...

IMO you will be lucky to see the RDX60 within two years..

NACRO how many MGs have you driven recently?

Owain

If all MGR have to worry about is NACRO's opinion, I'm sure they'll not lose too much sleep !!!

I wish MGR all the best. BMW bought out a competitor (Rover), royally screwed it, kept the Mini and bogged off. I really hope MGR do well despite the efforts of a certain Bavarian Motor company !

Besides, MGR do actually make some good cars and good value too. Plus their sales are non too shabby either.

Matt

Recently not many at all.......in fact the only MG's I've ever driven are an MGBGT (real MG) which I liked and a MGZS V6 which I thought was a really good car to drive. Shame it failed as an overall package though being horribly outdated as it is.
Also had a very brief drive of a Rover 75 1.8T which although a bit underpowered was very comfortable and a nice place to be. Also an "MG" Metro, but I don't think that counts as a real MG anyway.

I haven't driven streetwise, or a 25 (once drove a 200 auto though, was not impressed)or most of the other range. I'm still entitled to an opinion though. Not having driven a car doesn't preclude you from making a judgment based on the age of the design, the pricing, what it offers in the marketplace, the image and of course all the reports one reads in the press.

I'm sure my opinion won't cause MGR any problems at all, however it seems to be shared by quite a few people in the population as a whole. That should worry them a lot because if they made some decent cars then my opinion and that of others would be vastly different. Even if they do have the "loser" or "secondrate" tag I wouldn't care and would buy one, if they made decent cars that is.