Both totally different tbh.

And whoever mentioned "but you get lag on a turbo", you also have to wait for a vtec engine to come on cam :)

"And as for variable valve timing on BMW's etc - don't make me laugh"

Does 113 bhp per litre from a n/a engine make you laugh?

VTEC engines do not have much engine torque, but they compensate by using "torque multiplication through gearing", as they can have shorter gears because of their higher revving engines.

Re the comment that the VTEC system is 'more advanced' than Varioram or VANOS, I though the opposite was true? i.e. the reason that VTEC does not fail is because it is a very simple mechanically-actuated system, whereas VANOS at least is rather more complex (hence the failures perhaps....). VANOs does, however, give huge torque and huge top-end power unlike VTEC. I guess it narrows down to how one defines terms such as 'advanced' and 'better'....

Lambourghini make good farming equipment too whats your point :D

LOL. At least we're not driving Vauxhalls. :rolleyes:

VTEC vs. any Turbo car really is chalk and cheese. Unless it's a Turbo charged VTEC! LOL

As if the thread wasn't lacking enough impetus..... Vauxhall makes a show...again!

Bring on MG Rover :D

Already here ;)

PMSL Someone needs to go back to school & learn the importance of torque then!

Tourque is what acceleration is all about untill you hit the 5250rpm crossover point.

I like to be able to put my foot down in any gear & go, not tear strips off the car to make it go anywhere :rolleyes:

what 5250rpm crossover point?

It does make me laugh, I mean the non-VTEC brigade accusing the VTEC brigade of being purist and always defending the pureness of VTEC and then the other side of the coin is they are always banging on about torque and lawn mowers.......

personally I dont know why each camp just doesn't accept there is another dimension and move on!!

p.s. if Honda did make a lawnmower, I'd feckin buy one cos it wouldn't break down and I could do the lawns in about 3 minutes flat! :D ;)

I like normally aspirated cars over turbos, sure turbos can make things very quick but isn't driving sports cars fast all about gear changes, loads of revs and lots of noise. If i want'd a car that can be cruising along at 2000rpm and then pull nicely i'd get an old yank tank with slush o'matic box.

The polish a turd comment is a good example of why vtec people think their engine is better, it took hell of a lot of designing. Put a thick headgasket on any car to lower the compression and bolt on a turbo, instant power is seen, engine could be any old bit of rubbish tho.

P.S i'm not slagging imprezza's! or any other turbo, i just like N/A :)

Does when it costs £40K+ and is prone to go wrong. Wouldn't be laughing if I had to fork out for the repair though!!

Oh and btw Honda do make lawnmowers - damn good ones actually!

Regards,

tiggers.

Tiggers: I was not aware of Vonos failures on the E46 engine... someting only you know about?

Figures quites relate to a CSL, the standard-M3 figures are 107 bhp/l.

The E46 does not suffer from Vanos failures either.

The E46 DID suffer from bearing failures when BMW changed suppliers for a period of 2 months.

If you have any inside information, please do let me know.

Now, with these bhp figures, what, regarding Vanos/VVT (see the thread title), should BMW learn from Honda?

One Component of a Honda that has superb reliability: Coil in cap distributor unit ;) :p

"I'd rather have 200bhp and loads of torque personally!"

Me too! ...:)

"p.s. I don't own either, so am impartial here!"

I do!

Result - sustained high revs on a longish journey I find tiring....short blasts a different story.

So "I'd rather have 200bhp and loads of torque personally!" wins IMHO....;)

I think dogs are best 'cos they wag their tails when they are happy.

But on the flip side cats land on their feet when you drop them upside down. Which is clever.

"Sorry, but I just get hacked off with the constant attitude of many on here (yourself included to a certain extent) that BMW can do no wrong and make the best cars in the world blah blah blah."

Lol Tiggers...alot of people on this board get hacked off with your comical anti BMW attitude....its am obsession with u :) Your incapable of posting withough slagging off BMW :)

Yeah, whatever!

Well I've got to supply some balance to offset the likes of you haven't I? ;)

On a serious note you obviously don't read many of my posts as I am quite balanced when you look at the board as a whole. Still you probably only read want you want to read eh?

Never mind!

Catch ya later,

tiggers.

Ahh but what about pigeon’s they find there way home from just about anywhere, you can keep your dogs and cat’s they are crap;):D.

oops ;)

[Edited by ALi-B - 11/12/2003 10:50:35 PM]

http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk...e/tooledup.gif

Stick emm up this is a hijack!!!!:D

Well Tiggers, Ive read quite a few of your posts, and they have always been anti BMW. What a coincidence eh!? :)

ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..............

lol :D is there anyone else who would want to "accidentally" post on here!! ;)

[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Pigeons are airborne vermin ~ hardly a real bird at all!

Although I can't deny the instantaneous homing response that simply isn't there with gulls.

ta hardhead, was going to put a link in meself, just couldn't find it ;)

ValveTronic

:D


[Edited by ALi-B - 11/12/2003 11:17:54 PM]

emthreewannabe,

No coincidence - it's just you only read the posts about BMW or the ones that people like you have hijacked and turned into BMW threads. You're obsessed with them - look at your username for starters ;)

Actually - have you got one yet?

In all seriousness in this case I was actually making a sensible comment about BMW for once - I really do think they could learn from Honda. It's not so hard to believe is it?

After all who did Porsche get in to help them radically improve the efficiency of their production lines in the late 80's - Toyota - that's who!!

tiggers.

VTEC is the simpler of all the VVT systems (along with MIVEC), as it only controls lift and duration (one change in cam profiles), were the later more complicated ones, adjust timing also) like Honda's new i-VTEC. For a performance street motors the simple cam switch works well enough.

Most racing series don't even allow VVT in any form which is why it gets removed from the Hondas that compete in these series, also they are not so much bothered about a lumpy or 2000rpm idle, and a reduction in valvetrain weight gives less high rpm losses, which is what they want.

Anyone wondering why high revving motors seem to have more performance than their low(ish) torque figures would suggest need to read and digest these to very well written aricles.

http://www.autospeed.com/A_0744/cms/article.html
http://www.autospeed.com/A_0755/cms/article.html

some will probably faint at this little quote of the closing paragraph of the second article:-

"""""
So power is the critical determining factor for maximum acceleration, and torque is necessary for driveability. This can quite clearly be seen in looking at the types of engines used for certain applications. Trucks and industrial vehicles use engines with large amounts of torque with a fairly flat torque curve, but relatively little power. Racing and sporting vehicles use high revving engines, with high power and relatively little torque in comparison to their power outputs. That is why you have F1 having engines revving to over 18000 rpm. And there's no use doing that if to maximise acceleration all you needed to do was maximise the amount of torque you had!
"""""

But read the whole article as it is very enlightening as to why gearing plays such an important part in the whole, torque, power, acceleration debate.