beemerchild

>> Metro-john, hahaha bmws get in your way?? what in supermarket carparks <<

Yes and elsewhere :D:D:D ...... Just because someone drives a car does not necessarily mean they can drive it ... please remove those blinkers ... ;)

nothing wrong with an MGF, this is a scoob drivers problem.

drivers of scoobs suffer the fact that 90% of motorists have no idea what it is they drive, hence they gather on here with likeminded ppl who can chat about rear diffs and dump valves.

now an MGF driver doesnt have this problem, to 90% of ppl they are driving a sports car, they have the roof down and can drive at any speed and enjoy it, the car makes lots of statements about them that they embrace....its a 2 seater sports car, that says freedom, sporty, fun, etc. to 90% of ppl they have the better car...despite the scoob owner putting on a loud exhaust which is the only way that they can communicate their cars greatness to the public without actually pulling over at every passer by and telling them
that their car is best!

T

Tiggs

What do you drive?

Sorry Paul, I thought MY was manufacturer year....

Tiggs, I can appreciate that view but why put up with something that is unreliable and always going wrong?? Even people who don't really care what they are driving want something that doesn't go wrong every five minutes.

If you wanna compare with Subaru, Scoobys have always been near the top of the JD Power's survey and MGFs near the bottom...

MGJohn,

I have serviced an MGF and took it for a test drive...I didn't like it, sorry!

As for Metros, yes, you'd have to be insane to buy one, they're hideous! I worked in a Rover dealership for for a while, proof that I'm not anti British!:p As a result I'm scarred for the life due to replacing 10's of rear trailing arms, (a pig of a job) welding floors up etc etc!!

If you like your MGFs and Metros then fair enough, it's my choice to not like them though:) The 200s and 400s on the other hand are good cars:)

Oh, I'm not worried about my no.3 piston either...I have a Fiesta:p:D:D

FB, Y thank you;):P:D:D

carpet cleaner, today im driving my wifes scenic.

i have two mates with MGF's and they have had no probs, but like to drive thier cars...shock horror!

Two friends have them(neither are hairdressers),one a VVT and the other the basic 1.8.The VVT is pretty quick has decent brakes and I had the back end out within 5 minutes of driving it:).The basic 1.8 feels a lot slower but the ladies still seem to like it.

AA/RAC bloke who checked over my VR6 said that MGF's were the worst as he's had to rescue loads and even had one that had a blown head gasket at 11,000 miles ! :eek: !!! 11,000. and he said that that's not uncommon although most wait 'till 20/30,000 miles to blow just to be nice to the owners LOL :D

Ali-B

So, re-arrange some tin and that's a new car to you apparently!!! Fact is, nothing really new under the sun ... Since the Mini! Which you appear to enthusiastically knock.

Severly blinkered or what. So, a few people have been unlucky and had a bad one ..... so what. I know of several BAD Subarus .... thus ALL are bad .... by YOUR reckoning.

AND, that survey others mention and hold up as proof positive. How old are the cars surveyed? 2 - 3 years. Good grief!! How about surveying those same cars when they're say 10 years old or more, with a full costing, reliability picture to date? That survey would have more credibilty than cars still within warranty.

Why do they re-arrange the tin? So they can part the mugs from their money on a regular basis ..... and that, in a nutshell is what it's all about. It really is.

You label all K series the same. My own DIRECT experience (not prejudicial 2nd hand stuff) proves otherwise. Those in my experience are and have been very reliable with smooth turbine like characteristics which appeal to me. I will take delivery of yet another in a few days time.

Apparently, by your reckoning, that will be a mistake.

MGJohn

[Edited by MGJohn - 5/2/2003 9:54:03 PM]

[Edited by MGJohn - 5/2/2003 10:57:58 PM]

Who's going to admit to driving a Scoob, an MGF and an MGTF then?
(And a Rover 220, but don't tell my mother-in-law, as I'm not supposed to drive it!)

The MGF compared well to my car at the time (well, it was a Fiesta, and I was 17, and didn't know better at the time ;))

I drove a TF a couple of months ago for a morning. It wasn't bad - much better than I remember the MGF. However, the MGTF seemed a gutless wonder, even compared to a new MX5. (The TF was a 135, so I'm prepared to admit the 160 will be better)

When it comes to us having to get the second car the TF is in the running, along with the MX5. (It's mainly for Nic) I would prefer another Jap car, not necessarily a rag top (RX8 :)), but it's not going to me my choice at the end of the day.

For information about K series engines, I was looking for some stuff in a breakers yard, and had a chat with one of the workers there, and he told me that he would be quite happy just selling old K series engines, as "they're crap, you know" (his words, not mine.) I put this down to some extent to bad/incorrect maintainance. My mother-in-law's T series lasted 30k miles, mainly due to not being maintained properly.

It should be noted that the rebuild cost of this T series would only keep my Scoob serviced for 6 months, and the T series lasted for about 2 years :eek:

Interesting stuff dnb. Like your style.

>> he would be quite happy just selling old K series engines, as "they're crap, you know" <<

He would not be happy for long though. Bet he'd soon go out of business. Bigger bucks elsewhere. Been around long enough to learn to live by the motto BEWARE PROFESSIONALS. Your breaker chappie is exactly what I have in mind. Look in the right places and you'll find some professional somewhere to bad-mouth just about anything, not just cars. Just because they're in the trade, thus PROFESSIONAL (a much devalued word) is NO guarantee that their words are gospel. Ever been given bad advice by professionals ... no surely not .... ever wondered why Solicitors, estate agents, Window and Used car Salesmen, Time Share and all the rest are held in such low regard?

A glance on some of the threads on Scoobynet and elsewhere will show plenty of evidence why to always BEWARE PROFESSIONALS is not a bad idea.

A glance round my local breakers will certainly show a number of K series engined cars there (mostly age expired Metros). All alongside Subarus, BMWs, Mercs (yes, those too) as well as the much more numerous VWs, Fords, Toyotas you name it, of similar age and mileages. So what does that prove? That the K series is crap you know. Obviously, all those other scrappers are not.

For various reasons, not just crooked ones, professionals and indeed careless owners are quick to blame cars when it suits them. Scratch the surface and quite often, the blame lies elsewhere. Time and again, your point about correct maintenance is very valid. Even so, I'm amazed at some of the cars which now turn up in local breakers yards and I suspect the same is true elsewhere in the country. Fact is, because of easy to obtain credit, demand for new cars is greater now than ever before. The knock on effect is that cars still with a good deal of miles left in them, now are difficult to sell and when taken in part exchange, failure to attract a buyer quickly means the dealer driving it straight to the breakers. It's not unusual to find a current MoT certificate in the glove box of such breaker cars, some with 6 or more months still to run ....

My son aged 18 has a K series Rover Metro. His insurance is in excess of 1000 quid for that so although he could certainly afford to buy a better car, he could never afford to insure it. I sometimes drive that little car. It's K series engine is a little jewell. Spins like a tireless turbine. A very nice build quality about it and the car as a whole. It was my cousin's car until she replaced it with a new Saxo which I've also driven. That car is quite nice, but, it definitely has a flimsy feel to it and nowhere near as substantial as the Metro it replaced. my son, who is over 6 foot tall took several adults up to London in it recently. His point to point time was only a few minutes longer than that of any more powerful car driven legally or otherwise. Thing is, even with that heavy load, he got 40 mpg from the thing! I'm lucky to get half that with my turbo but then I do press on a bit!!

Beware Professionals - some have been known to speak with forked tongue ... :( The trick is to weed those out! And that's not always easy. :(

Finally, like your Mother-in-law, I too have a T series, a Turbo version. Superb engines; sub 7 second 0-60, top speed more than double legal limit. 100,000 miles and still going strong. AND, not a trace of oil near that no. 4 cylinder in the "They all do that there Sir" place! .... :D:D

Worth repeating: BEWARE PROFESSIONALS!

when I worked at BMW we had a driving day to show off the new 3 series, as we hadn't yet been out in some others we also had the MGF VVC and Freelander.

Well, I remember the MGF was great fun. probably becasue it was a sunny day, so the roof was down, we could drive pretty damn quick and it was a a bit of jolly, but the car was still nice and pretty quick too.

Eh? :confused:

Beg to differ on that, K series are good little motors - light, powerful, free revving and plenty durable enough.


Not a fan of the MGF though :(

I didn't say the K series was crap - it was only what I was told, and if I believed it, I wouldn't be letting nkh spend her money on an MGTF so I could spend my weekends fixing it rather than modding my Scoob... :( I just prefer Jap cars.

I'll judge the K series by it's performace & reliability. After all, if it's good enough for Lotus, then I'm not going to complain.

As for the breaker, he was exagerating somewhat, and I was winding him up a bit ;)

And John, a professional is just someone who is payed to do the job!

Metro's were poorly made, mainly the corrosion protection, the lack of wheelarch liners meant underneath the arches were a massive dirt trap, hence why you always see Metros with rust wings and rear arches...

Don't forget in 1990 the revised Metro with the K series engines in won Car of the Year, **** knows how but it did.

I owned a Metro Gti and it was a great little car, had the hydragas suspension modified and it was so much fun. The 103hp 1.4 k series was a great little motor and trouble free, used to thrash it everyday..

The MGF wasnt a great car agreed, however as one of the design engineers on the MGTF, give MG Rover some credit they have improved the car considerably. They have dumped the Hydragas suspension and it now uses conventional coil and spring suspension which makes it more of a drivers car, there was also major BIW improvements to improve stiffness and therefore scuttle shake. They also added a stut brace of sorts behind the Facia and also one in the engine bay. They altered the electric power steering too I think which helped the similar dead feel to the steering that many subaru suffers.

Go one try one you might like it.

Interesting (if not mostly predictable) thread this...

Yawn.... The Scooby is best etc... get real...

Plenty of unreliable examples of every car made out there... it shouldn't happen but it does...

"K Series engines all blow up and have failed head gaskets" etc.. yeah right... I've put nearly 30000 miles on mine without a hitch..

I suppose then on that logic that all Scooby flat-4 boxers pack up with piston slap/failure before long too... okay it generally only happened to MY97/98 engines, but hey - must be a crap engine !! Classic Scoobs have the rudest, nastiest interiors of any £20k road car... must mean that Subaru are rubbish !! Jeez..

Silly argument... you pays your money, you takes your choice... if you buy a lemon, then hard luck... its the risk you take buying anything..

Ohh and before anyone pipes up... I'm a car enthusiast.. I like Scoobs, most MG/Rovers and anything with character.. some people should take the blinkers off and try for themselves before blurting...

have fun :D:D

Jerry, just in case you are not sure where you are this is a Scooby site and opinions are likely to be biased owards this marque, funnily enough, people often buy cars they like and then enthuse about them.

Post this on a Ford RS, VauxhallBBS, Honda BBS, EVO, MX5 etc site and see what happens, it will be the same.

The chap asked for opinions and he got them good or bad or would you prefer that all of the negative stuff was removed.

Paul Habgood Mr Moderator Sir...

>> Not liking the Metro or the MGF does not really make Bob anti British really does it. <<

Maybe not, but, you never know ... and I did say bordering on .... :)

However, his preferencial penchant for the anal insertion of Vespa species makes me think anything he may write on any subject could possibly be lacking in credence .... ;):D

Working in a garage need not be a true indicator of the correct state of affairs. Rather like taking a poll of those waiting in a Doctor's surgery. Guess what, most of the people there had something wrong with them .. thus, all people are crocks .... :)

B T T T ...:)

Worth remembering that under those years of alien control and stewardship, the total R and D funds allocated to the MGF was a big fat Zilch.

Thankfully, alien control no longer applies and even with very limited resources, MG-Rover wasted no time in developing the MGF and now the MGTF which is and even better car. I believe the MGTF was recently voted the most beautiful cabriolet(?) ...... now there's a thing ... ;) .........

I know it's still fashionable to knock the MGF here but, thankfully others are more realistic and think otherwise ... here's some evidence:

Release immediate
March 18, 2003

MG TF NOW ‘THE WORLD’S MOST BEAUTIFUL CABRIOLET’

The MG TF has been judged the ‘World’s Most Beautiful Cabriolet’ at the awards ceremony held by L’Automobile più Bella del Mondo, in Milan. A panel of 13 international judges, made up from design experts outside the automotive industry, credited MG TF with the class win ‘for blending great originality and typical elements of MG tradition, with a strong casual and dynamic character’.

The World’s Most Beautiful Automobile title is an established award, now in its 10th year. It recognises design significance from a non-automotive perspective. Judges included leading art critic Bruno Alfieri and art-photographer Gianni Berengo Gardin. Thirty-three car product designs are judged in nine categories.

John Sanders, sales & marketing director, said: "This accolade is an outstanding achievement particularly in the light of such an impressive body of judges and another example of how the company’s talented styling and engineering teams have developed the MG TF into a car of both substance and style."

The Rover 75 won the high-class saloon category in 1999. The MG TF has also been awarded ‘Cabrio of the Year’ at last year’s Geneva Motor Show and recently performed exceptionally well in Euro NCAP tests with a four-star occupant and three-star pedestrian result. It is available in four specification models, priced between £15,750 and £19,995.

So there .... :D

Sorry MGJohn but this is nothing personal.

I would love for MG Rover to survive and do well. Always been a bit of a fan ever since I read about there attempt at a gas turbine car.

Rover were allways willing to experiment, and I trully believe England deaserves (no I cant spell) a good mass volume car producer. Ive owned a 214, 216 220gti and even a P5B coupe and P6 3.5 and enjoyed them all. The K series engine was one of the most inovative and powerfull in terms of bhp in its day/class. Noting to do with Honda. A decent British engine. They even put them in lotus's, and many self build track specials (Ford Zetec excluded).
Indeed my wife runs a 1.4 25. Problem free so far.

That said.....................

My Sisters MGTF has been one of the most unreliable and problematic cars I have ever known. In 1 year it has been back to the dealers 9 (It could be 8) times. It leaks, overheats and all other crappy problems, failing twice on the motorway in the wet for no apparent reason. The AA man who flatbacked her home stating that it is the most common cars he has to rescue.

The subject is about the TF only, I hope, and not about Rover.

I want Rover to do well, I really do, but the legacy of Leyland hovers over them to this day, evident from the above posts.

Rumy.

The MGF isn't even a proper MG they stopped making those back in the good old days of the closed shop. It should be badged "ROVER" and as far as I'm concerned there is something a bit sad about rovers. They have the image of being a losers car, an also ran, second best (although in the case of most Rovers second best would be a large improvment from their current position near the bottom of the pack) driven by thos with more patriotism than sense.
So its largely irrelevant whether the MGF is a good or bad car the image is just so bad.
Also I sat in one while waiting for a friend to get his company 75 back (transmission failure) and you seem to sit very high in the car in a very unsporting driving position- yucky interior too.

No. surely pike, perch or salmon, you know, the fish worth catching.

MGJohn,
Sir , I admire your pluck. You come onto a Subaru site and on the same day you say that BMW's are crap(poor reliability :D) and that Rovers/MG's are great cars(:D:D:D) , in fact they are world leaders in some areas.:rolleyes:
I thought Mycroft's Toyota's are better than Aston Martin's thread was the craziest thing I'd hear this weekend, however you have equaled if not beaten that crazy dude ;) Well done that man, fact is often stranger than fiction in the Scoobynet world...LOL :D

camk ....

Not just as you write "fact is often stranger than fiction in the Scoobynet world" ... reality too ..;) My evidence, the finest available; that of my own ears and eyes ..... those who chose to do and believe otherwise run all sorts of risks ... that's their decision .... not just one, many born every second apparently.. :) You've obviously learnt well the lesson ... fact and reality is INDEED often apparently stranger than fiction in the real world to those that are so very determindly blind, that they can not even hear ....:D

BTW, nowhere have I stated that BMWs are crap .... check again if you must. I simply wanted to point out that they are not ALL of bullet proof superior build quality. To be fair, not only Rovers are bad-mouthed on TV's Watchdog Programme ... what about the poor sod with his 60 grand new BMW which would die suddenly at motorway speeds ... dangerously ... as evidenced by actual motorway monotoring video footage of the stranded car. According to dealership, nothing wrong with car. I wonder what the outcome of that little problem was. TV often do follow ups but if they did, I missed it.

Have a nice one .....

hey bluto22B ....

I wondered how long it would be before someone would spot that .... well done Bluto ... :D ...It really was a deliberate mistake as, to me, the c*ap word does not look nice in full print. I'm funny like that ..:) Or, is it that I am guilty of dishonesty? After all my poof readink has been reilly carp of late ...:D:D

Hey .. ruminator ... Like your style .. Sorry to hear of your sister's problems with her MGTF. Sadly, that can happen to ANY car, it really can. Of course there are always reasons for such failures. More often that not, those less familiar with what goes on under their bonnets have no alternative but to accept the word of the professional.

What puzzles me is when it happens to non-Rover cars, many Brit foreign car owners become reticent, secretive even. Like my neighbour who castigated me for my choice of car even though, unlike his, have never had to be recovered on a flat bed in 44 years of driving! Yeah, I know, I've been lucky.... there's more to it than that. By the way, he had to spend 1k plus to get it repaired. He did not offer this information to me, his partner let it slip out much to his chagrin ..;) Be sure your sins will find you out ...:D Another neighbour, alright really but a bit of a cocky big headed type also expressed similar sentiments about my choices of vehicle. He has a Boxster and went on incessantly about superior build quality. Engine burnt out on hard shoulder .... his son told me that later .... Why this reticence?

Safety Fast MotorinG whatever you drive...

MGJohn ( Transport enthusiast extraordinaire .... and that includes BMWs, Subarus and just about any other form of transport....:) ))

P.S. .... on the whole... I'd rather have an MV Agusta ..... now that's a means of transport ... :D

Now John on that we can agree...:)

"Rovers are second rate cars" words spoken from a true blinkered Subaru enthusiast.

Yes they have an image, bit old mans sort of car etc etc, but then again a normal subaru imprezza, sport or 1.8gl or whatever the base models were hardly anything special or have a very good image.

As for the Mg quote about the new ones not being MG's, that tends to come from the old lot that don't accept anything after the MGB or rv8. True they are not the same but rover own the rights to the name and have given it to the sporty models which do seem to be selling well ( you see a lot on the road)

Don't get me wrong they are not the best cars in the world, i like imprezzas although it wouldn't be my choice of car due to the commoness of them now, i've just not got blinkers on

I'll stick my oar in again ;)

MGTFs (and other MG cars) seem very common. This is based upon my observation of my work car park. More than every other car is either MG or Rover. I'm not hearing too many people complaining about them. (There are only 2 or 3 Scoobs in the car park)

The company car purchase scheme may have something to do with this - An MGTF as a second car is a very attractive option. (The one and only benefit of nationalised British Industry ;))

On looking at the MGTF in direct comparison to a Mazda MX5, the build quality of the TF looked about 5 years behind what it should be to compete on a like for like basis.

However, the fuel consumption and attention to detail in the engineering is better than the MX5. It's just a shame that MG can't present things a bit better. (Why do the Japanese like low compression engines :() Also, MG seem to be constantly down grading the spec on the TF, and making more things into cost options :( Where as the Mazda is pretty good as standard.

With the company scheme incentive, the MG is a good buy, but the MX5 is only very marginally more expensive to purchase. In the probable 3 years of ownership (while under warranty) I wonder which will cost the most to run? I suspect the MX5.

chrispy200+
At least get the name of the car you are talking about right for god's sake there is no such car as an Imprezza.

Secondly sticking an MG badge on warmed over Maestro/Metro/Montego/Rover200/400/75
does NOT make them MG's.

Sorry if you find that hard to take. Back on topic the MGF is not a good car. It's not aspirational, nor is it a class leader.

Before the MG crowd consider more retorts along the lines of "Subaru's have faults too", we are aware of that the subject of discussion on this thread is

"MGF's are ****......discuss"

We are doing precisely that and so far it seems getting to the truth that they are pretty awful vehicles.