Could probably do without some of the blatently patronising comments from the likes of chrisp and P1Enthusiasit. The choice of a new car is an individual thing, and by that I mean it doesn't allways revolve around which car has more 'raw excitement'.

If JimmyRB5PRO is looking for a car simply for raw excitement, as I suggested before, the P1 is probably his best bet. If he isn't then it'll never be the BETTER car for HIM now will it?!

Just to re-iterate, don't be so bloody patronising.

The Suretrac diff makes the front of the car much more lively and will catch you out, if you are not concentrating. In my opinion the car demands more respect when behind the wheel than a P1.

I am sure P1 values will continue to nose dive, time will tell.

Always felt something was missing from my STI7PPP, until yesterday, when I fitted a Firestorm backbox. Now it sounds like my P1 did, but is better in every other repsect. I have, of course, removed it now in case of warranty problems..

It's obvious which one is the best, just drive them.

Buy both :confused:

They are both great cars in their own right .

Just down to personal choice

I am not being patronising but enthusiastic about a car i have like since its release and i now own! Hence the board title mate.

I am evaluative hence i have driven all the new models out to see how good they are, although its a real shame alot of manufacturers are removing the hard edge from the driving ala Evo 8 etc. We are looking at performance cars that are COMPROMISED now, no huge power boots, no hard suspensions, too much driver help etc. Its a real shame for the driving enthusiast :(

Nice 993 btw :)

In what way was I patronising :confused: please quote an example ?. I put my view across responds to a comment that said I agree with the STI8 owners because they have owned both. Meaning because I havent owned either my view doesnt count or is not valid.

"Doors clunk, build quality, LOL what about raw excitement or has that gone out of the electric windows" ...On first read Chrisp I took this to be pretty patronising. I still do really, but if you didn't mean it that way fair enough.

"you dont buy a performance car to listen to door clunks (bloody n00b :P )" ...Why would you think everyone looks for exactly the same things in a car as you P1Enthusiast? It's one thing to say that the P1 is a more hard-core car, but you've also assumed that in everyone's eyes that makes it a better car too. Not so. Mate.

Have you heard the doors clunk with the window down?

Is that the build quality you are reffering too?

;)

When you compare it to an MY00 (as I was), then yes :p

[Edited by Ex_Pug - 3/21/2003 10:54:29 AM]

Davyboy, is that 993 an automatic (!) - or is it just me?

Yep not meant to be a patronising comment and deliberately stuck the winking eye at the end, just a tongue in cheek comment. I know that new car are more solid feel to them and have much better build quality and obviously more polished and less raw.

It does depend on what you want though and I still go by my old and new car comments. I do think new cars have lost that spark, the mark 1 golf gti was a superb car as was the pug 1.9 GTi. Sure there newer counter parts are safer, solid more toys etc but thats not always what people are after IMHO. Must say I would have an STi8 PPP before a P1 but that is purely thinking with my head i.e. new car, first owner, full warranty.

On my MY00 I get a sort of glass vibrating against metal sound with the door closing and window down ;).

[Edited by chrisp - 3/21/2003 11:16:15 AM]

cheers guys for all the comments !
I ama ware their is a difference in cost etc but at the end of the day i can get a 2001 P1 low miles for 20K , stick big brakes on it and possible extend the warrenty for 2 years, having an RB5 i have to say i do like the shape ! And if in 2/3 three years time its still worth 15k then its not a bad buy !!!

STI8, couldn't afford to put the PPP on straight away which by all accounts is what it really needs, so you end up paying 26/27K and in 2/3 years time its going to be worth what ?? If its like the UK 300 !! Help, but lets say 18/19k then it looks like the P1 could be the better buy, provided that in really doesn't age on me too quickly ! Interesting comments from you all keep them coming !
OR shall, i wait until Jan 2004 and get a new shape Golf R32 ?????

I didn't buy a P1 so I could listen to every rattle, shake and squeak the car makes. I bought it because I'm an enthusiast, I like Subaru's and to me the P1 is the pinnacle in the Impreza's design and era. (My opinion so you don't need to slate me for it :) )

For me it's not time to move on (see Chins comment) but if it was I wouldn't even concider the bug eye or the new new one, I don't like the evolution of the car past the classic. Others do like it, they've bought it, good for them.

End of the day everyone's different and JimmyRB5 is gonna have to decide for himself. Why do we always end up slating each other off over our common interest? :rolleyes:

Davyboy, is that 993 an automatic

Tiptronic

P1 Enthusiast.

There is no doubt that the P1 is a stunning car. I loved mine, and it was tremendous fun to drive. I miss it. However, in many ways, the things that made the P1 so much fun were the flaws in it's charcter.

The P1 had/has a very harsh ride, not a problem in itself, but being so stiff it would struggle for grip on country roads, or changes in camber. As a result it was easy to get the back out, and some interesting slides were possible. The STi it just grips. A bit less fun, but not much.

As for the power, well the STi might not give you the same kick in the back, but it just lifts you up and takes off. It might be heavier, but it feels so much more nimble than the P1.

It's only now that I realise how poor the build quality of the P1 was, and although I got used to all the rattles and bangs, it's rather nice to be able to hear the radio now and again.

I'll always have fond memories of the P1, but I'm delighted with the STi.

Josh

I'm with Davyboy on this one :)
Chris

You also have to consider why s/h cars cost less than new ones at all. Everything will be slightly worn, slightly loose, slightly fatigued, lessening the driving experience. The feel will not be the same as a new car where everything is within manufacturing tolerances.

The other thing that is factored into the price is the cost of potentially expensive repairs. On a 2/3 year old car even with warranty you could be looking at clutch, brake discs, exhaust, etc. replacement that are not covered by warranty. On a new car these should be good for at least 3 years. This is factored into the price difference, and must be considered as well as the straight depreciation.

Slightly patronising I know:), but look at the whole cost, not just headline depreciation.

IIRC those who were trading STI7's after a year for STI8's were getting £17-18K trade (that's £10k down the drain). I'd guess that the STI8 will do the same. Whole cost is relevant but the biggest cost by far is depreciation. A P1 could be bought for £17k and could be worth £14k in a years time - the STI8 PPP could lose £7k in the same period easily. The P1 will always lose less now when bought second hand - FACT. I have an inkling that the P1 might just be the Escort Cossie of the future too.

The P1 for me looks the dogs danglies but I'm having trouble getting used to the '8'. Sure it's the way to go for improved ride and build but it's no RX8/TT to look at is it?

F

Josh,

Nice reply, i love the little flaws in my car also, the odd rattle etc, they certainly dont detract from it imho, to be fair i love the fact the car is build for PURE performance, its great.

To the original poster i would look at a different car, its not worth putting the big brakes on a P1, buy one with them on it! They will cost from 1000 - 1800 pounds and thats dead money whereas for another 500 you get the car with it on them already, I think the alcon / pro drives are stunning on mine. Definite buy!

I honestly think the Sti although being a better engineered car doesn't deliver the same driving pleasure, its almost like being not as involved, its a little too refined, the ride too good, the engine not as exciting. Its also slower in power : weight terms, better round a track maybe with the new diff though. I just didnt like it as much despite 3 drives in it, unfortunately all modern cars are going that way.

The P1 simply makes more financial sense also imho. Drive both at least twice and then decide mate :)

P1 Enthusiast,

Fair points, but at the end of the day, I'm right, you're wrong and my car's better than your car ;)

Wouldn't it be boring if we all had the same opinions and tastes (unless if they were all the same as mine).

Josh

Josh,

Fine but i bet my missus is taller than your missus :P (she's 6'2 :D :D)

P.S. My cars better also :D :D

Seriously though just make an informed decision with your eyes firmly open on what you can expect to lose on both cars and what that extra money buys or doesnt buy you on each car. Fun motoring ahead either way :)

Re depreciation. The ORIGINAL comparison at the very start of this thread was against a new sti8 and a P1.

Therefore is sound to compare the both of them depreciation wise. The P1 that will be bought will have lost most of its depreciation, while the sti8 will look forward to losses as soon as it rolls off the forecourt. A few corrections here, the P1 standard was not 33k brand new it was £31,500, and i got mine new for £29,000 with an import trade in. The p1s u can see for £16,000 (ive seen one and it was an insurance write off rebuild) more than likely will be piles that have been crashed big time/abused.

And IMHO a good p1 around £20k with warranty and extended warranty option is a much better buy than a sti8ppp which is what £26000plus? And i stress IMHO :rolleyes:

P1,

What about the S202? John Barker says it turns the sti 8 into a P1. Too bad not one person on this board has managed to drive one??? Except for a few in Japan- where a fair test on demanding roads is very hard to do.

Paul G drives one, and it is 7 based, not 8!

The P1 is a very nice car and you could be a luck man as i might be selling my baby in a couple of months only for the right price this is one of the best examples about.

http://upload.turbosport.co.uk/getpi...1750740780.JPG

RB, what have you done to the bonnet? It's got a mini scoop, which means you've got some sort of induction, am I right? Any STi5 based car with induction is 'caveat emptor' IMHO, as there's lots to go wrong with this mod if not thought through properly, especially if it's still on std ECU.

It looks a nice car though, pity as you'll have put me off now.

F

I should think it will be a hard job to find a real "virgin" P1

It has An aps induction kit,link ecu,Hks hyper which has been fitted by Brd (Mapped by Bob Rawle)only 400 miles ago :eek:

N.B. I dont have a P1 as the nick suggests.

However I would still choose the P1 over the STI8 purely on looks. The STI8 just doesnt cut it. Im out and about and I notice a P1 immediately as it has road presence. I love the classic shape hence why I have an MY00. The STI8 needs the PPP which is another 2K on top. It comes with some decent brakes which the P1 needs IMHO.

At the end of the day it doesnt matter 2 sh*ts what we all think. The dude (soz cant remember name and am 2 lazy to click back and find out) has got to make a list of what each offers and then make an informed decision. Some people want a decent warranty, new car look/smell etc others want a piece of motoring history and something that turns heads. This doesnt make anyone wrong or right - just go for what you feel is right for you.

I could have bought a different car but the Scoob was for me. Yes it cost loads to fuel, service, insure. Its not the best built car ever (not the worst either) but it has character. The looks you get from schoolkids walking past giving you the thumbs up always makes it worthwhile. The sound of that flat four bellowing out of my blitz exhaust making everyone look to see whats making that noise. The waves from fellow scoob drivers. The rallying heritage etc. All these factors are what I like from a car.

Simon.

Simon.

Hi mate, just thought i would add my two penneth worth!

I owned an RB5 WRSport but unfortunately wrote it off back in November. I recieved £15600 from the insurers and also a further £4k from another policy that i bought at the supplying dealers, so basically got all my money back. Decided to go straight for a P1 as it was always the car that i wanted but couldnt quite stetch to it!
Approached the dealer, explained my situation and a month later i was the proud owner of a P1.
Have now had it for about 2 - 3 months and love every thing about the car. I have added the TSL 6 pot upgrade, put on a scoobysport back box, clear indicators and changed the dv.
It is all down to personal choice at the end of the day, i just chose the P1 because i have wanted one for ages, best thing to do is take both of them for a run and make your mind up that way, or buy a P1, run it for 6 months, then go for an STi 8 PPP!!!

Mikey