Islamism's the problem, not aggressive liberalism. The Arab Spring was hijacked by Islamists.

So to be clear, you are suggesting that Bush would not have invaded Iraq if the UK were not on board?

I can't see what logic you are following

the problem is a toxic mix of poverty, ignorance and backward tribalism,

Agreed, and it's given birth to Islamism which is a by-product of Islam which led to and was born out of poverty, ignorance and tribalism. They're not, in my view, independent of one another, rather they're corrosively symbiotic.

I already suggested what may have happened in a different scenario a few posts back!

So that's your answer is it?

So no matter how unlikely your scenario was, you are calling my argument, which is based upon the facts as they were at the time 'bollocks' and 'apologist'?

Kind of difficult to argue against that kind of pigheadedness

Martin, when you learn to stop confusing your opinion with fact then we can have a sensible discussion. Until then this is pointless. I am genuinely unsure whether you are deliberately misinterpreting the angle of the discussion here or whether you have developed a 'thick' gene like half of the posters here!

Not sure it's me that has misinterpreted anything. I was originally responding to the point that 'if it wasn't for Blair Iraq wouldn't be the mess it is'.
My point (again), the US were going to invade Iraq regardless. That really isn't speculative, it's the logical argument based upon the politics of the US in the early 2000s. Not to mention statements by senior neo-con members of the Bush administration.
Amongst the neo-cons Blair was actually quite unpopular as he was seen as someone slowing down the invasion,. The most clear example of this was Cheney's frustration at Blair for insisting they went through the UN. Again this isn't speculation, it is well documented fact.

The invasion could have led to many duffernt scenarios for the future of the country. Sadly Blair and Bush were more interested in grabbing short term glory for themselves than thinking how best to approach the whole situation.

It was Islamism that destroyed post-Saddam Iraq, Chris.

Nothing to do with basic rivalry Sunni v Shai?

Yes, certainly sectarian, a promotion of one branch of Islam over another, both with Islamist groups tearing down any hope of a pluralistic society.