Does anyone know anything about these? I have been looking at diesel estates upto about £12,000 and i have seen a few 51/02 plates in 2.2 diesel form. What sort of power and consumption do they have? And are they any good as i have heard a few stories about mercs of late.

 

3-series beemer is probably a better bet, IMHO.

 

I have a C220 Cdi, great car & i get between 500 & 550 miles to a tank & i dont hang around

Its an auto & has had no problems at all

 

Oh & they have 150hp & not bad torque but i cant remember the figures

 

You probably won't look forward to the £100+/hour their "technicians" are charging these days if something does go wrong, which they probably won't be able to resolve having experience of their techical knowhow.

The car is nice, don't get me wrong, but the dealers are shockingly bad. How they can justify the hourly rate is beyond me. I will not get another Merc that is out of warranty.

 

Agreed. They tried to charge me £800 to fix a misfiring CLK 320. £400 for a new air mass meter (inc fitting), and £400 to supply and fit 12 spark plugs (2 per cylinder). I asked if I could supply my own plugs and they said they were "special" M-B ones, even after I pointed out they would be made by a standard plug manufacturer, probably Bosch. In the end I got the air meter replaced under warranty and PX'd the car the next day for a BMW with the 5 years free servicing pack.

Needless to say, the car ran fine with the new air mass meter and the old spark plugs, so they were obviously just trying it on. I couldn't see how a dodgy spark plug could cause a misfire when there are two per cylinder -- surely each cylinder only needs one to fire to ignite the mixture? For sure, the burning will be less efficient, but it will run on all cylinders.

To cap it all, I copped £8k in depreciation (50%!) in 11 months. But I had the last laugh, because I was going to replace it with a C220CDi. Ended up getting the BMW 320Cd instead which is a far better car (and faster than the C220CDi, even though it's got less displacement). M-Bs also all have steering wheels like buses, and recirculating ball steering.

Never again!

 

Jeez, that's scathing...

 

Oh they didn't find anything wrong with my misfiring C320, I fortunately found a local specialist who spends most of his time working for Merc Dealers on cars they can't fix......

He had a quick listen and said yup it's running like a bag of nails, probably a faulty MAF sensor, which it was, and when he had a look at the air filter he reckonned that by the state of it the thing had never been changed, the car had done 30K miles, dirt and dust poured out of the thing!!!

 

The spark plugs can indeed cause a mis-fire, as they are fired at intervals of up to 10 degrees of crank angle, they do not always fire at the same time. If you had asked to see if any faults were stored on the printout from the Star Diagnosis reports, it would first indicate if there was an air-mass meter fault, at which point, if not, you would then inspect the coils and spark-plugs. You are correct in saying that you could supply your own plugs, but seeing that they are platinum tipped plugs, your saving would not be massive, and would give you no comeback, if a misfire re-appeared, you would then have to pay for the 2.2 hours of labour again (@ £100 per hour). Incidentally, do you believe that BMW, Audi or VW are that different with their labour rates? Having worked in at least one of these garages (BMW) as well as Mercedes, I can assure you that there was no real difference in costs.
As to the original topic, the Mercedes Benz C220CDi Estate is a fine car that does not suffer the terrible depreciation that the 3200cc petrol engined cars do. If you have a choice, try and find a C270 CDi, or at least a 220 in Avantgarde spec with a few choice options such as parktronic, heated leather seats, xenon lights and a Comand unit if possible, and always buy a Auto. Is the C class a better drivers car than a BMW 3 series, NO, but it is a better allround car, and that is from my experience of working on both. Last weekend, I travelled from Glasgow to Rugby in a C220 CDi in a time of 4 hours 15 mins, and averaged 46mpg. I got out of that car feeling relatively refreshed considering the journey, and was quite glad to be driving back in the same car on the Sunday. As for the service costs, many of Mercedes finest mechanics have realised that they can run a very profitable business for a far lower rate than the Merc garages. My friend for one is the owner of such a company in Scotland, charging only £40 per hour, so don't let running costs put you off.

 

No, but as I said I got the BMW with the 5-year free servicing package and a warranty, so no costs except tyres for me And I was so pissed off with the spark plugs thing, I bought a car with no spark plugs. They wanted something like £15 each for spark plugs -- I've bought platinum spark plugs before (what do you think a Scoob uses?) and they're nowhere near that price. Actually the coolest part of the AMM failure was the way that it manifested itself in the gearbox refusing to change up when it hit the limiter during the middle of an overtaking manoeuvre on a single-carriageway road

...and looks like an old man's car.But an auto uses more fuel than a manual, which somewhat defeats the purpose of having a dieselYep, and with Mercs and BMWs main dealer service history is everything when it comes to resale. So unless you're intending to run it into the ground, we're back to ruinous depreciation. But we do agree on one thing -- the C270CDi is better, because it's a 5-pot.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by carl

No, but as I said I got the BMW with the 5-year free servicing package and a warranty, so no costs except tyres for me And I was so pissed off with the spark plugs thing, I bought a car with no spark plugs. They wanted something like £15 each for spark plugs -- I've bought platinum spark plugs before (what do you think a Scoob uses?) and they're nowhere near that price. Actually the coolest part of the AMM failure was the way that it manifested itself in the gearbox refusing to change up when it hit the limiter during the middle of an overtaking manoeuvre on a single-carriageway road

The original topic states that the person is looking at a 3 year old Merc that I'm assuming he would keep for approx 2-3 years, so independant servicing would be a rather shrewd move as the money he would save on that would far offset the depreciation of a few non Mercedes stamps in the Book. A fully stamped service book shows nothing other than the bobby basic servicing has been done, wheras some Spam Valley customers get offered the additionals such as long life plugs and fuel filters, and turn round and say "How much - my local back street garage can do it for far cheaper!". You have admitted as much yourself - hence proving that a Full Dealer sevice history counts for nothing much.

As for fuel consumption, the difference between autos and manuals is minimal these days, as many new auto boxes these days have learning ECU's that adapt to your driving style, and promote max fuel economy where possible, something not at all possible with a manual.

At least we agree on the 270CDi

 

Well when I looked at Beemers, the 320d was 49mpg combined, the 330d manual 41mpg and the 330d auto 36! Doesn't seem to be much point in having an auto that does 36mpg -- I reckon you could eke that out of a 1.8 petrol.

 

Blimey iv'e been off line for a couple of days, and realise iv'e stirred up a hornets nest. The reason i asked about the C-Class is because i believe the 3 series touring is too small in the luggage department. I also am considering an Audi A4 tdi but iv'e heard the 1.9 is much better than the 2.5, fuel economy drivability etc(can you have these two engines re-mapped) and the fwd is better than the quattro. But i do like the look of the c-class and it is rwd.

 

The point in owning a BMW 330d Auto over a 1.8 would be the fantastic power advantage. I did a little research too, a C220CDi manual does a combined mileage of 40.9mpg, wheras the auto does a very creditable 39.2mpg, hardly a massive difference.

Webby, you are correct in saying that there is a massive difference in MPG between the Audi 4 & 5 pot engines (apparently 45-50mpg on the 1.9 according to my workmate who has a chipped one, and a shocking 32-33mpg on the 2.5 according to a customer I met). I would have thought that the Audi was slightly bigger again than the Merc, and a whole lot better in the snow.
In the end, it's up to you. The C220CDi is a very good everyday car that I would doubt you would regret buying, and that is a reply to your original question.

 

Sorry, the figures I quoted were extra urban! Doh! I can't speak for the C-class because I don't remember the figures, but I thought that 5mpg was a massive difference between a 330d manual and auto, particularly on extra urban.

Don't get me wrong -- I don't want to hate Mercs. I used to aspire to an AMG SL55, but now I'm not so sure. ISTM they're still charging a premium but the quality is no longer there. But they're very popular with German taxi drivers!

 

Not only Germans, they're 90% Mercs in Lisbon too. I was told one of the reasons for this was that parts were ridiculously cheap, much cheaper than BM or Audi. Of course, the old ones also have that "Cypriot taxi" legendary durability, even if the new ones might not.

 

LOL! I'm in Germany at least once most weeks and all of the new-ish taxis (current E-class/C-class and previous E-class) have faults lit on the dahsboard. Usually SRS, lamp out, etc.

 

Thanks for the input, but i still feel i am nowhere nearer my query, ok the rear load bay needs to be handy enough to hold 5 big holdalls plus other bits of stuff,(my wagon does this easily), but i need more room now than i have in my wagon(jdm v7 sti 2002) and it has to be diesel, i fancied a 330 sport(petrol) touring but there is no point in changing from the scoob if i had one of those instead of a diesel.

 

Ask direct questions and I'll try and answer them (or are you still just looking for answers to your original questions). My advice, as late a year C220CDi as possible, don't worry at relative high mileages, with a reasonable history, but more importantly, check front thrust arm bushes (£300), ARB bushes and links (£150), turbo oil leaks (£700), blocked catalysts (£800), diff oil leaks (very rare now - £400), rear springs (£150), gearbox oil leak (£200), and that all the usual serviceable items are Ok (tyres, brakes, etc). If possible, find a car thats warranty is just about to expire, and get it inspected thoroughly, then get it all done FOC. I've had a classic wagon and the C class is definately bigger (the one I travelled to Rugby in last weekend easily held more than you wanted it to). If you think it is still short of power, get it chipped. All the prices I have given are approximate dealer prices (in Scotland), and I've never seen a car needing all of the above, these are just the things that get done more commonly, and don't believe that you wouldn't find a similar list from a BMW or Audi garage. As with all of these cars, the later the car is in it's model life, the better they are (don't touch an early C class), and hence why brand new BMW or C-class wagons are good cars, they have fixed all the bug bears just as they move on to the new model.

 

Audi do good estate cars.

 

Ok then, who out of the german marques builds the most reliable/affordable(parts-service-etc) estate, diesel, good performance and economy and load carrying. I am not sure about bias here(as we all have) but i am now doing a lot of miles and need all of the above. Possibly an E-Class, I have heard that they are bullet proof.

 

Both the older models of Merc E class (WDB210) models and the the BMW 5 Series (E39?) are excellent examples of German technology, that are well built (far superior build quality compared to there relative replacements), and far larger than anything mentioned earlier in the thread.

 

Cheers craig, i will have a nose in the trader over the weekend.