Steve Fort

I may be part exing the P1 for one tomorrow. Its a my95 with 100k on the clock, for around £7000, silver/grey leather, Techno Violet (i think), apparantly immaculate.

I dont know anything about these cars, but thought it sounded like a good trade for my P1 (£11,000+M3).

Any info about the cars or tips on what to look for will be most welcome.

Cheers,

Steve

fatherpierre

One word: Vanos.

Make sure it's not on its way out.

image doctor

Another word or two : non evo

fatherpierre

Doh!

Didn't read the year.

emthreewannabee

Great cars. If its 95 then yes it will be a pre EVO so no worries about the double VANOS.

Has it got full BMW Service history? I know when I get my M3 this will be essential.

286 bhp and 0-60 5.4 secs with top end of 162mph I believe. So more than a match for any Scoob and obviously a better car in general

Of course, someone will be along soon to say it wont beat a Scoob on the twisties and in the wet

uxg

I wouldn't say more than a match for 'any' Scoob. Most standard UK cars would struggle but any Jap Sti will be more than able to match them performance wise even in a straight line. I used to have an STI Type R and I used to leave E36 M3 Evo's (321bhp) like they were going backwards.

Now comfort, luxury and toys wise I can't fault the M3 and the interior on the Evo version with those leather Recaro style seats is amazing but performance wise they can't live with a P1 or an STI.

tiggers

Noooooooooooooo! please, for the love of God don't start this again

M3IAL maybe?

tiggers.

naefeart

"I used to leave E36 M3 Evo's (321bhp) like they were going backwards."

Okay I think this is going way OTT! You must of been racing hairdressers or just prone to serious exaggeration. Have you actually driven one? If you had you wouldn't write comments like the above.

C'mon guys, different cars different means. Ones a rally car the other a grand tourer. Both are fast nuff said.

Steve :

Check the history, reject it if it hasn't got a FBMWS/H - these cars are costly, Evo or otherwise.
Also check all the windows seals for signs of wear, make sure it's not leaking oil and that all the electrics work.
If its a genuine car in good condition you will have many miles of happy motoring. Good luk




[Edited by naefeart - 9/22/2003 12:17:21 PM]

emthreewannabee

"I used to leave E36 M3 Evo's (321bhp) like they were going backwards." - SURE!!

Im willing to bet that in a straight line, an M3 Evo will take P1's, STI's etc easily. Granted, the Scoob will be leading after 70 yards but the EVO would then go straight past it no problem

I remember a Clarkson video when an M coupe races a 22B and an Evo 6 and takes em no probs

Isn't the 22B supposed to be the dogs nads of Scoobs ??

[Edited by emthreewannabee - 9/22/2003 12:38:43 PM]

naefeart

Good lord there's gonna be some serious flamming on here soon

To be fair, I have an Evo and having driven my mates STI V daily for a good few thousand miles, they are well matched, but at completely different ends of the spectrum.

The STI is lighter and quicker through the gears. Off the line the scooby will take the lead. The Evo will keep up but wont make much impression until the speeds rise. Over 70mph the evo will come back and eventually overtake the Scoob (providing the road stays straight).

For pure speed thrills and exhilaration the scooby has it. The BM is too heavy, too comfy, too refined and too classy to be driven at breakneck speeds on a daily basis. You'd lose the **** end round a bend and total the car. It's just not ment for that.

Cruise with it, pose with it, speed with it if you want, but don't rally it.

scoobysnacks

I've seen tests of the E36 M3 non EVO doing 0-100 mph in 13.00 secs and the EVO version taking 12.2
Considering the 0-60 times are over 5 secs on these tests, you can see how fast they are once on the move.
Another impressive stat is EVO version's 30-70 of 4.4 secs which compares to 4.7 for a Mitsubishi Lancer EVO V for example and (I think) matches the suspiciously quick EVO VI times Autocar produced.

uxg

Err I have actually driven an M3 Evo and on a regular basis as me and my friend, who used to own a lovely Estoril blue M3 Evo, regularly used to swap car keys (for cars only before you people get excited ) at the weekend. As naefeart very rightly states two totally different cars to drive. I would borrow his M3 to cruise around in and marvel at the lovely interior and build quality and he would borrow mine to get some driving thrills.

We also had the "occasional" spirited drive together. My Type R had a de-cat, K&N and and Scoobysport exhuast and was RR'd at around 300bhp but I think the close ratio gearbox on the Type R must make a big difference to acceleration, as in any gear, if we both dropped the hammer at the same time I would pull a very convincing lead even into 3 figures. I have seen 1/4 mile times for Type R's with similiar specs to mine in the mid 12's so I think it could easily beat the 0-100 times of the M3 quoted by Scoobysnacks.

Not trying to upset any M3 fans as I love M3's for different reasons, they feel nice and torquey with nice linear acceleration but in my experience they just aren't as quick as the paper stats would suggest.

Anyway to get back on the topic of the thread the M3 will be a different drive to the P1 but you may like it. I would give one a test drive. High mileage shouldn't be too much of a problem on a Beemer as long as it has been serviced regularly. I would also get it checked over as some bits for an M3 are very pricey. Also beware of thieving gits. My mates M3 was forever having the M3 mirrors and or bodykit bits ripped off it by unscrupulous 316 owners who wanted that "M3 look" but didn't want to pay for it and these bits from BMW are very pricey. Over £300 for the mirrors alone. Get it garaged or alarmed up.

Steve Fort

Thanx for some informative replies guys.

I didn't want to know how the M3 would compare to a scoob, i know they are both different cars, built to do different things well. Please don't start arguing about it.

I just wanted to know if this sounded like a good deal, and to make sure i didnt get myself a lemon.

naefeart

I didn't realise your car was modded. I was comparing two standard cars.

The STI's close ratio box will make a huge diference and this is where the majority of the performance difference will come from.

Again, were talking chalk and cheese. Drive both cars, pick which ever flicks your switch

naefeart

Steve,
I've had another thought : the clutch. E36 M3 clutchs are fairly stiff beasts and you really need to give them a shove. The bitting point is quite low but should still be firm and percise. If you find yourself having to push the clutch through the floor and find difficulty selecting gears whether the car is hot or cold, then you need to get it checked. The clutchs are hydrallic so it's not as simple as just checking to see if it slips or not. I dont actually think they do slip, but I'm not sure.

Evo's have the 6-speed box and are sadly notchy compared to the non Evo's.

Can't think of anything else that's really any different from any other car. Hope this helps.

mn_angrybeats

Why quote 1/4 mile times ? once running and the traction advantage a scooby has is quickly lost on the road it's a different matter unless you do traffic light grandprix all the time..

Seen loads of scoobies at Santa Pod with trap speeds of mid 90mph, pretty poor when you consider my Cooper S can manage that..

M3 is a cracking car, silky smooth engine and oversteer on demand, I'll have one over a Scooby anyday, well maybe a decent P1 might sway it.

[Edited by mn_angrybeats - 9/22/2003 3:56:59 PM]

scoobysnacks

I noticed you say it has 100k miles on the clock. I'm not sure if this is true but in EVO's buyers guide they suggested you should replace the timing chain at about this mileage to avoide a hugely expensive repair bill if it breaks. I think they also said that this job would be very expensive and cost 2k on the older M3! Not sure about how much it would be on the new one though. Anyone care to comment on all this as I've also been told by other people that the chains hardly ever break and can safely go on for a lot longer?

fatherpierre

I love the way M3s evoke such wrath from Scooby drivers. LOL.

It's a straight line bullet car that's quiet, comfortable, smooth and better built than anything Japan can offer, Lexus excepted.

From new they're around double the price of a Scooby and are aimed at a different market.

Why the hairy chest, testorone bollox of "I always murder them"?

They're luxury, fast, comfort cars that, with proper maintenance will be around long after any Scoob has been converted to a tin can or in the hands of Wayne the Nova boy.

dteagles

Steve,
If I read your first post correctly that's £11K + your P1?

I'd say that was far too expensive for a MY95 car (Estoril blue coupe with all the extras), a local VW dealer only gave me £11,500 for my MY98 with 80K on the clock (I know I could have got more but I had a service and warranty due which would have been about £2K).

Cheers,

modded to say that I just re-read your post and realised that you are getting £11K!

Still - make sure you have warranty, I spent about £2K of BMW money in 12 months on mine with warranty work
Darren.

[Edited by dteagles - 9/23/2003 8:09:43 AM]

emthreewannabee

Steve

Are you going to/have you bought it then? I'd be interested in what you think of it as I'm planning to get one in the not too distant future and still can't make my mind as to wether to get 3.0l or an Evo

Steve Fort

I met up with the guy yesterday. He obviously loved my P1, as it is immaculate and goes like **** off a shovel!
The M3 looked in very good condition, with a FSH.
Upon driving it, its a totally different car to drive compared to the Scoob. The driving positon felt kinda strange, with the pedals close together and offset to the right. A driving position that will definatly take some getting used to, especially as i think that a Scoob cannot be beaten for driving position. The M3 was very fast though, faster than i thought it would be. Throttle was very sensitive, and i couldn't believe that it was a car that had covered 100k! I didnt try giving it too much stick as it was pissing with rain and i was more than concious of losing traction at the rear.
When i parked the car i noticed that the tick over was all over the place! The owner said that it dint normally do this. Any ideas?

Overall i was impressed with it, and i think that i'm getting a good deal.

emthreewannabee

Hmmmm tick over sounds a bit worrying! I have another drive and see if it does it again.

100k is no problem in a BMW aslong as its been serviced correctly which this one obviously has

scoobysnacks

But what about the timing chain? Does it need replacing at 100k? Anyone know?

scoobysnacks

Nobody knows then?

akshay67

Sorry to hijack this thread, but this is a last ditch attempt to find the driver of a black classic fire spitting WRX who really upset my 2 M3 EVOS friends at the last Ace Cafe meet...You know who you are - tell me what you were running....

Chicken Man

Why do some people have to turn every topic into a:

"well good for you - but my scooby is better because......."

The post was for info about the M3, not how it compares to a scoob of any sort.

Why don't you compare both cars to the Escort Cossie while you're at it.....

<que for next in-depth pointless discussion!>

tiggers

Chicken Man,

Please see my post on page 1 - know exactly what you mean.

tiggers.

scoobysnacks

Can anyone answer this yet?
'What about the timing chain? Does it need replacing at 100k?'