Designers and why Jap designed cars look awful...
07 May 2003, 10:44 PM
#1
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The difference is very visible here... the image below is of the Soarer series 3... it was the first Japanese built car that was designed entirely outside Japan... this car was designed in the USA for the US market... it's target market was all the 'home made' US GTs' as well as the imported Mercs, Jags, Astons etc... the car pictured stopped the production of the Virage based DB7, AM saw this car in 1991 they scrapped their plans to build the DB7 on the Virage base, instead they realised that their Virage based DB7 [quaintly nick-named 'the pig'] was completely out-classed by the car pictured below, the designer of the Soarer can be said to have had the greatest influence on the 'Ian Callum DB7' we all know and love, the XK8 suffered a similar fate... and it's 2 year delay was down simply to it having less able dynamics than the, by then, 6 years old Soarer, Fiat even bought the designs so they could produce the Maserati GT so even they owe their shape and their suspension and crash worthiness to this car... Sadly this car was not overwhelmingly accepted in Japan, it was too 'Westernaised' for the home market and never sold in the numbers Toyota hoped for... it was however a staggering success in the States... despite the new name 'Lexus' and a price tag not that much below the Mercs etc... it was for all but its last year of production the biggest selling import GT in the US...
[img]
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/183144/blue_94soarer.jpg
[/img]
[Edited by Mycroft - 5/7/2003 11:18:37 PM]
[img]
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/183144/blue_94soarer.jpg
[/img]
[Edited by Mycroft - 5/7/2003 11:18:37 PM]
07 May 2003, 11:32 PM
#2
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Its got the front bumper off a taurus but the rest still looks jap - Like an lx version of a 200sx if there was such a thing as there is no lines to the arches - expecially the back 
Maybe its just the colour - I have seen these look not bad in black with proper alloys.
Maybe its just the colour - I have seen these look not bad in black with proper alloys.
07 May 2003, 11:42 PM
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You must try to get your head around the idea that that car was on sale in 1991... the SX at the time was a hatcback with pop-up lights... the later 200SXs' ie the 14/14a and most especially the 15 do look very like the Soarer... Taurus '95? again AFTER this design, there was a better 'hipped' Runner version that has those nice rear flanks like the S15 but again the Soarer had that design in '95, the S15 is '98...
But the original remains the best iteration...
I don't like the nose treatment on that car and prefer the 'Shark nose' of my own..
[img]
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/183144/frontcornerred.jpg
[/img]
But the original remains the best iteration...
I don't like the nose treatment on that car and prefer the 'Shark nose' of my own..
[img]
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/183144/frontcornerred.jpg
[/img]
07 May 2003, 11:43 PM
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That is just the biggest load of tosh!
First of all, how anyone can say that the Soarer doesn't look Japanese I don't know - that's just ridiculous.
Secondly, all this business about Aston/Jag/etc is surely rubbish - the DB7, for example, is so British, clearly taking many design clues from early Astons!
The GT/Coupe configuration/design was not invented with the Soarer, its a style which has been around for years - again, look at early Astons such as the DB4/5, aren't they of that ilk?
This thread is completely pointless - its like saying that the Subaru/Mitsubishi/etc have taken design cues for all their saloon/hatch based cars from the Cortina or something!
Sorry if the mods or anyone else think that I'm just here to contradict and annoy Mycroft again - I definately am
, but in this case I think its relevant as this is clearly intended as the beginning of an argument - why else would anyone start a thread on a Jap car forum slating Japanese cars??
Ridiculous.
First of all, how anyone can say that the Soarer doesn't look Japanese I don't know - that's just ridiculous.
Secondly, all this business about Aston/Jag/etc is surely rubbish - the DB7, for example, is so British, clearly taking many design clues from early Astons!
The GT/Coupe configuration/design was not invented with the Soarer, its a style which has been around for years - again, look at early Astons such as the DB4/5, aren't they of that ilk?
This thread is completely pointless - its like saying that the Subaru/Mitsubishi/etc have taken design cues for all their saloon/hatch based cars from the Cortina or something!
Sorry if the mods or anyone else think that I'm just here to contradict and annoy Mycroft again - I definately am
, but in this case I think its relevant as this is clearly intended as the beginning of an argument - why else would anyone start a thread on a Jap car forum slating Japanese cars??Ridiculous.
08 May 2003, 08:34 AM
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mycroft why do you constantly insist on ramming this crap down our throats? isn't there an open field somewhere you can go and shout your love for the soarer somewhere away from the rest of us?1 thread ok didn't know anyone actually rated the car at all and was suprised when u defended it to the hilt.. fair play.
5 threads.. hold on. ok we know u like ur car.
100 threads... er please stop.. this is the weakest I've seen yet.
I've read most of your "proofs" on here and always managed to resist commenting.
Please FOR THE LOVE OF GOD SHUT THE F**K UP.
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08 May 2003, 09:08 AM
#8
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I love the NSX, and it is an Engineering T-D-F and although I like the design it is considered to be a second rater in most peoples eyes, I personally think that is bolleaux, it is a lovely design to me...
Dizzy... if you don't like the posts of an individual then do what Mary Whitehouse was too stupid to do... don't look!
[You are smarter than Mary Whitehouse... aren't you?]
Davy, this stuff is not some net based rubbish... you have to read and read quite a lot... but the reading is from BOOKS or the info comes from attending seminars on design... the net is a mine of info but sadly it is not as good as specialism or being a real Engineer or Designer...
Dizzy... if you don't like the posts of an individual then do what Mary Whitehouse was too stupid to do... don't look!
[You are smarter than Mary Whitehouse... aren't you?]
Davy, this stuff is not some net based rubbish... you have to read and read quite a lot... but the reading is from BOOKS or the info comes from attending seminars on design... the net is a mine of info but sadly it is not as good as specialism or being a real Engineer or Designer...
08 May 2003, 09:34 AM
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The NSX I think... the Probe had pop-up lights... as does the NSX and that 'black-top' cabin was also copied by the Probe although this ignores the fact that the Probe is a Hatchback... it has closer ties to the Supra than either of the above cars... they being '3-box' designs...
08 May 2003, 10:18 AM
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As to the design effect on a whole generation of cars... then I suggest some of you read Ian Callums book on design... you will be surprised how his thoughts reflect my own... he designed the DB7.
Quote of the day!!!
08 May 2003, 10:38 AM
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My opinion (for what it is worth - but I think it is shared by many others) is that the Soarer is in my top 10 list of ugly cars at the top. They look real nice with the gold badges... not
Before I get flamed, I do appreciate everyone has different taste - thats why people wear purple shell suits.
Its not really a Jap thing - the Scoob and Evo look aggressive and look like they are on a mission, the NSX is a beautiful. The Soarer... its apathetic attempt at a Jap manufacturer trying to be American. It fails.
Before I get flamed, I do appreciate everyone has different taste - thats why people wear purple shell suits.
Its not really a Jap thing - the Scoob and Evo look aggressive and look like they are on a mission, the NSX is a beautiful. The Soarer... its apathetic attempt at a Jap manufacturer trying to be American. It fails.
08 May 2003, 10:51 AM
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No flames matey... I agree with you about one thing you say... they do look dreadful with Gold badges... yeeuck.
The rest is your opinion... that's cool...
I think they were not trying to be 'American' as much as 'European' to American eyes, they didn't want it to look like a Mustang or a Corvette... they had the real thing and that was pointless... the brief was to make a 'European' style GT without the problems and cost... so that is why they used Pinifarina trained designer... they didn't want pure US muscle car they wanted something that had overtones of that (hence the V8 model) in a classy, european style... if you saw the Promos for this car in the States at its launch you would understand immediately... everything was pitched like that even the ad's looked like European car ad's subtle is an understatement... I'll find them and post a link...
The rest is your opinion... that's cool...
I think they were not trying to be 'American' as much as 'European' to American eyes, they didn't want it to look like a Mustang or a Corvette... they had the real thing and that was pointless... the brief was to make a 'European' style GT without the problems and cost... so that is why they used Pinifarina trained designer... they didn't want pure US muscle car they wanted something that had overtones of that (hence the V8 model) in a classy, european style... if you saw the Promos for this car in the States at its launch you would understand immediately... everything was pitched like that even the ad's looked like European car ad's subtle is an understatement... I'll find them and post a link...
08 May 2003, 03:31 PM
#22
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Having been accused by Mycroft of coming from the 'shallow end' of the gene pool I would prefer if there where 25000 Mycroft haters and 1 supporter. Hopeful both Mycroft and his 'best friend' Cladius will take the hint and return from where they came from.
08 May 2003, 03:39 PM
#23
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you will be surprised how his thoughts reflect my own
08 May 2003, 03:50 PM
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IIRC, Peter Stevens (awesome designer) did not design the classic impreza, but he *did* design the 22B \ WRC shell for prodrive, which to me is *still* the nicest looking impreza.
IC
IC
08 May 2003, 03:50 PM
#25
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Not all jap cars are designed ugly
but I agree the majority are ugly, they like their saloon type look, and quite often their sporty designes just dont look right, but they have the potential, and stuff like the new 350Z and RX8 look really good, so the future looks a little brighter, plus with cars like the RX7, NSX, and Skyline around, they have some representation in the looks department.
but I agree the majority are ugly, they like their saloon type look, and quite often their sporty designes just dont look right, but they have the potential, and stuff like the new 350Z and RX8 look really good, so the future looks a little brighter, plus with cars like the RX7, NSX, and Skyline around, they have some representation in the looks department.
08 May 2003, 04:08 PM
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Claudius - are you Mycroft's bitch or sommat
You seem to pop up extolling his virtues on every post.....
Mycroft - Ian Callum's ideas reflect your own...get real...
I suspect your ideas reflect his....and there is a REAL difference in the ordering of that comment.
You seem to pop up extolling his virtues on every post.....
Mycroft - Ian Callum's ideas reflect your own...get real...
I suspect your ideas reflect his....and there is a REAL difference in the ordering of that comment.
Damn you are so one sided... READ BETWEEN THE LINES!!! 'kin hell LOL
08 May 2003, 04:21 PM
#29
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Claud, these ding-bats are my bitches... get your own! hahahaha...
If I had just written 'On that fact Ian Callum and myself agree... it wouldn't have wound up all my 'toys'... hahaha
Jeff
hahaha
If I had just written 'On that fact Ian Callum and myself agree... it wouldn't have wound up all my 'toys'... hahaha
Jeff
hahaha
08 May 2003, 04:28 PM
#30
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Lol Claudius, sarcasm is rather hard to convey over the web......
I dig get you, however
Seems people are rather fanatically anti-Mycroft to the point that that Pepper bloke seems to be stalking him in ever-increasing levels of histeria.... weird.
Mind you, Mycroft you do talk ****e
I dig get you, however
Seems people are rather fanatically anti-Mycroft to the point that that Pepper bloke seems to be stalking him in ever-increasing levels of histeria.... weird.
Mind you, Mycroft you do talk ****e