TelBoy

I agree, i think i'm much more likely to need my tyres to perform in an emergency braking situation than i am in a wet weather roadholding situation. Maybe they're basing their advice on global statistics but surely better front tyres help you stop sooner? No? What about aquaplaning? Crap front tyres mean you'd lose steering more quickly, no? Can of worms thread ahoy!

billythekid

I guess it depends on your type of driving and your budget, but the braking distances - esp in the wet - are much longer with tyres closer to the legal limit.

Thats why I always try and rotate my tyres on a regular basis - once every 5000 miles or so. Its an hours faff but it avoids all the hassle of having 1 axle on 3mm and the other on 8mm...

Saxo Boy

Good/New tyres on the rear then - no brainer. I'd personally use up the crap ones on both axles first though; they can't be that bad?

Saxo Boy

a) dark car looks more fun
b) conditions are terrible and vehicle is being driven deliberately too fast for them
c) dark cars' nose dips as driver clearly keeps lifting to provoke the rear

Clearly a lot of drivers in here that either:

a) have zero confidence/ability, and/or
b) regularly push their cars well beyond their limits.

From what OP (originally) said he has 4 good (wear wise) but poor tires (quality wise). There is nothing wrong with putting these on the rear axle and a better tire up front unless you are planning to drive close to the limits or are the sort of driver (his wife (no offense)) who is perhaps unaware of these limits.

This is a car enthusiasts forum that is predominantly frequented by knowledgeable car enthusiasts. There is no need to blindly follow advice that is designed for the unwashed masses without applying further thought and reasoning. If this was knitting.net and the same question is posed it would almost certainly be wrong to advise anything other than mounting new tires on the rear. Given the further qualification from OP, it is more sensible to put the better tires on the rear.

I do take exception to so called experts using a 1980s video designed for darwin candidates the world over to support their point - a point they have probably given zero thought to and are simply repeating what they read on a poster the last time they were in Kwik Fit.

Leslie

I would certainly put them on the front wheels. I would expect the rear wheels to be less likely to slide and even if they did it is easier to recover the situation with a rear wheel slide than with the front wheels letting go so that you have lost all steering and the car will continue with a very much reduced change of direction.

Les

CrisPDuk

Saxo Boy, I come from a motorsport background, mainly rallying, and personal experience tells me that Michelin are right

Not only is an FWD car more stable with better tyres on the back than the front, it is also significantly faster than vice versa

Obviously it would be faster still with new tyres all round, but one doesn't always have the opportunity/budget to replace all four every time

TelBoy

So you don't agree with Michelin at all then?

dpb

All four, job done - maybe a cheaper set

Or take out a loan

Oldun

In that video, at 1.18 the driver applies no opposite lock to counteract the slide.

Saxo Boy

Why would you want to go rallying or even close to it on the road. This is not an Impreza, M3, or a modern hot-hatch; it's a diesel runaround.

My Leon handles very admirably but I have zero desire/intention to throw it around enough that I need worry about a grip difference between the front and rear axle.

Saxo Boy

Of course he doesn't. The video is designed for the unwashed masses. Said masses don't even know what a dab of opp is! (much less have the ability to apply it in the heat of the moment)

CrisPDuk

Sorry, I meant the other way round, better tyres on the back makes the car work better :

CrisPDuk

I didn't for one minute suggest that one should go rallying on the road

I was merely pointing out the effect at extremes, those same effects will present themselves at lower speeds in adverse conditions, especially if the vehicle is in inexperienced hands. IMO it's best to do whatever you can to ward against such an eventuality

Like you said, you know what to do in the event of a bit of lift-off, as do I, but I suspect Mrs Alcazar wouldn't, I know MrsD would **** herself

Scooby-doo97

iTrader: (1)

A little OT... What do people recommend for staggered wheels, such as those on BMWs? If you needed two new tyres, you'd have to replace them back on the same axle as you can't put the wider rears on the front. Replacing all 4 would be best in an ideal world but that gets rather expensive when you have two perfectly good tyres on a given axle

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Drive it in reverse?

Scooby-doo97

iTrader: (1)

ilogikal1

It doesn't need them, it won't get driven in the snow.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

My other reasons for having the best on the rear on a FWD car are:

Tyres usually stay "good" for around five years before the rubber starts to harden. Different brands degrade at different rates. So putting new on the rear ensures the old ones will be worn away before they go past their best before date. Doesn't work on a RWD car, but if you want perfect tyres and perfect handling all the time, you'd regaularly rotate to keep wear even and replace them in sets of four.

The other issue I have is older cars with 3 channel ABS systems...Classic pre-faclift Impreza is a good case example. If the system thinks a rear wheel is locking, it bricks itself. To the driver it initially feels like they have good braking, then they may feel a slight twitch..the next thing that happens is the ABS kicks in, the pedal starts pulsing and pretty much all braking effort has been removed. Its as scary as hell when that happens, trust me. Thankfully later versions had 4 channel and EBD.

r32

According to the tyre manufacturers the best tyres should be on the REAR

Ask them.

Saxo Boy

All this talk of tyres: the car I just replaced (the Volvo) has 4 different no-make brands at each corner that are all technically the wrong size and in varying states of wear and usually running different pressures! Coupled with a car that handles like a shed on wheels it is fair to say that I personally would be happy for anything that matches across an axle, is at the correct pressure and has more than 5mm of tread

TelBoy

Sorry i know this might appear a stupid question, but aren't Michelin (the sponsors of the video suggesting better tyres should be put on the rear axle) a tyre manufacturer? Am i missing something?

RobsyUK

iTrader: (2)

Put one of each on the front.. Best of both worlds.

scud8

iTrader: (1)

When I was rallying my old 205 we used to joke that the rear wheels were only there to stop the bumper dragging on the floor. I did find that the quickest way to drive it was not to worry too much about the rear and concentrate on where the front wheels were pointed. So long as I kept my foot in, the front would pull the back after it. It seemed to work out okay. On legs with multiple stages we would often swap the less worn rears to the front on the road section between stages (or we'd carry two spares which we'd put on the front).

I don't think this translates to a road car, so if the existing tyres are really bad, I would put the new ones on the rear and start saving. If the existing ones have a fair amount of tread and grip left, then I'd put the new ones on the front.

pacenote

Personally if this was my wife's daily driver and she had a history of putting a car on its head I would replace all 4 tyres.

Its just not worth the risk.

pacenote

205's very good at liftoff oversteer IIRC and also crap rear suspension travel made them abit hairy over jumps.

With FWD rally car best tyres on front every time.. Maximum grip for traction and braking.

The rear can be controlled with left foot braking or use of the handbrake.

SirFozzalot

Last time I got two new tyres for the wifes car from Costco they would only fit the new ones to the rear. It was the fronts that needed replacing. They swapped the part worn rears to the front (including rebalancing them) and fitted the new tyres on the back.

ilogikal1

Fixed that for you.

pacenote

Thanks

Leslie

So do I,mainly track racing!

I still think it is easier to avoid trouble with the better tyre performance on the front wheels. With a front wheel slide, you cannot steer the car and just about with whatever you do with the front end you will make the situation worse. It is always unpleasant when the steering will no longer do anything to help control the car. At least with a rear wheel slide you can influence the car's behaviour with the steering wheel and also use the wheel to correct the slide. I presume that in this case the rear tyres are at least legal as far as the tread depth is concerned, in which case unless the driver is a bit of a maniac, the problem is unlikely to arise anyway.

My Scooby was an outstanding handling car when I got the bumpsteer removed and fitted the strong anti roll bar links on the rear so that the understeer virtually disappeared and the car was better balanced with the rear end more likely to slide than the front.

Les

Saxo Boy

Agree, problem with losing front end is you can easily lose back end trying to sort it out. at least when the back goes you only have one issue to address and aren't on a knife edge as to what you can do. Also at least with oversteer the car is trying to put you into a hedge as opposed to crossing the lane into oncoming (in general)