Originally Posted by JTaylor

Well he did. The question I posed was a serious one; should we have turned the other cheek?

Originally Posted by jonc

No, but we could have done things a lot more differently. The "War on Terror" was an extreme approach of using a massive sledgehammer to crack a nut.

Originally Posted by jonc

Al-Qaeda.

Originally Posted by jonc

Maybe Bin Laden never existed at all!! oooOOOoooh....

Originally Posted by Einstein RA

Quote:

'Clinton introduced him to the world when he was being impeached. Bush brought him back when people were questioning whether or not he really won the election (which he didn't). Now Obama is allegedly killing him when many people are questioning where he was born. Who will be next now that Osama big brother Laden is gone?'

Originally Posted by Einstein RA

Quote:

'Clinton introduced him to the world when he was being impeached. Bush brought him back when people were questioning whether or not he really won the election (which he didn't). Now Obama is allegedly killing him when many people are questioning where he was born. Who will be next now that Osama big brother Laden is gone?'

Originally Posted by JTaylor

According to Michael Hirsh* via the Washington Post**:



*http://mobile.nationaljournal.com/co...qaida-20110505

**http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/pl...o3YG_blog.html

Bush saw AQ as the manifestation of a much larger problem, are you saying that that wasn't the case and that the problem was just AQ? Would you have left The Taleban alone? Would it have been possible to take down AQ without taking down The Taleban and by extension could The Taleban have been taken down without invading Afghanistan? How would you have cracked the nut?

Originally Posted by jonc

Bush saw his war on terror as a "crusade", to which he later back tracked due to the connotations of a religious war harking back to the medieval days of Christians vs Muslims, but the sentiment was there. Dick Cheney saw it as an opportunity to flex America's military power and stamp it's authority on the world as the top world super power and Donald Rumsfeld was only too happy to facilitate this. But what they didn't realise then is that this nut turned out to be a hornets nest and it is now well and truly stirred.

Initially the war was with AQ and capture of OBL and was a small part of a problem, but in sending troops into another country turned it much much larger problem and this did could have easily been avoided. Case point proven with "Operation Neptune Spear". This operation was well executed, leader of AQ responsible for the 9/11 terror attack killed, body buried at sea, nut cracked, job done and they did it without a full blown war with Pakistan.

Originally Posted by JTaylor

So would you have left The Taleban alone, then?

Originally Posted by jonc

The Taliban was no threat to the US or western world before the war on terror.

Originally Posted by JTaylor

Bin Laden went back to Afghanistan in May '96 and became best mates with Mullah Omar and in August '96 declared war on the US. And how would the coalition have gone after AQ without first going into Afghanistan. How would that have played out?

I think it was all or nothing. The latter is what I'm interested in from a turn the other cheek perspective; the West would have had the moral high ground and OBL would have forgone his propaganda and recruitment opportunity. The agressive liberalism argument is sound, but only if it works.

Originally Posted by DCI Gene Hunt

....and the Taliban helped John Rambo defeat the Russians

Originally Posted by JTaylor

Are you sticking with post 314, Jon?

Originally Posted by jonc

I have a feeling like you're going to tell me that I'm wrong!

Originally Posted by JTaylor

Alright, Maz?

Source?

Originally Posted by Martin2005

I think I'm going to start a thread called 'The Moon is Made of Cheese' and use debating strategies like this and some others used on this thread. I know it is a fool proof way of debating and never losing an argument

Originally Posted by Einstein RA

Calm down dear it was only to humor jonc's quip! There was no debating strategy involved
That said do you actually believe everything the American press spoon feeds you?

Originally Posted by Martin2005

No only the bits that support my the moon is made of cheese theory

Originally Posted by jonc

The Taliban was no threat to the US or western world before the war on terror.

Originally Posted by DCI Gene Hunt

....and the Taliban helped John Rambo defeat the Russians

Originally Posted by Einstein RA

James

It was just a random quote taken from Google. Thought I'd just add a little spice to jonc's red herring.

Originally Posted by finalzero

I don't doubt your knowledge and I never proclaimed to have any amount myself...But having vast amounts of knowledge does not necessarily amount to any depth of understanding (wisdom, we are experiential creatures after all).

If you will forgive me for my prejudgement, you come across (at least on this thread) as exactly what you stated, an 11 year old who has academic knowledge but lacks any wisdom to go with that knowledge.

I have come across many people like that, they have quantities of information stored in their head and are able to debate many a people but they seem to lack an understanding of some basic things and often see the surface information but not the (somewhat) hidden wisdom that comes from having a degree of humility.

Those people that do carry the burden of the information they have amassed well enough tend, in most cases to be quite humble, withdrawn even to some extent...maybe they start to see the world for what it is, certainly it must be from sitting pondering the knowledge they have gained.

It is easy to gain degree after degree, gain an academic standing or quantify your knowledge (the width of it and the length) but it is nothing more than just information and I have often found people who fit this characterisation, simply use that knowledge to bully other people around them and elevate their over inflated ego even further.

I am not saying you are like this, it would be ill conceived of me to assume so much from a simple thread but I say things how they are and right now you appear to fit the above category very well.

I have met all kinds of people in my life, from the incredibly arrogant self centred ignoramuses to the common person on the street and I have found those who possess a little bit of knowledge and accept they do, often have the greatest wisdom (because they sit and ponder about what they do have) and this usually humbles them.

I like to think of myself as one of those people. I might not be academic or have the appearance of someone educated but I have learn't a thing or two along the way and I would like to think I am smart enough to be good at my job.

So you could sit and rub shoulders with these people on an academic level, but I doubt you would have the depth of understanding that comes from gaining true wisdom, accepting that with all the knowledge you gain, you ultimately know very little (and Dr Timothy Winters is a good example of someone who is humbled by that knowledge).

So I will leave you with some Sufi wisdom:

"A pot made of clay only serves a purpose when it holds something of benefit for the person possessing the pot and/or the person receiving the pot."

Most people look at the pot and admire it's form and construction but they will miss it's true purpose, that it can provide benefit to people around it, such as life giving water...This is often called the "Transmission of Blessings".

Peace

Originally Posted by JTaylor

Ah yes, I remember you and Jon cooking up something similar on the OBL thread:

https://www.scoobynet.com/886821-osa...is-dead-3.html

Juggers' post was the highlight though:

https://www.scoobynet.com/showpost.p...5&postcount=89

Followed closely by your brother claiming to have witnessed a plane crash in to a building at a secure site that he couldn't disclose:

https://www.scoobynet.com/886821-osa...s-dead-16.html