^OPM^

Quick question that i need help on-have looked on direct.gov website and cant fully find answer i need.

How long by law are you allowed for tea breaks on an 8 hour shift that runs from 6 am to 2 pm.

I know according to law it says you should have a 20 min break if working more then 6 hours but does that include washing up time as well?

If i start work at 6am is the company i work for breaking laws by expecting me to have one break at 8.55am for 15 mins but included in that 15 mins is 5 mins of washing hands time, having a wee etc,so you only actually get 10 mins rest time. then not another break till 11.55 am of which the first 5 mins is again to walk to toilet wash hands etc then have only a clear 20 mins actual tea/lunch break.

Is this right?

^OPM^

no the first break of 15 mins is only an actual break of 10 mins as the first 5 is to wash up etc, the next break begings at 11.55 but that first 5 minutes of that break that take you to 12 is for washing up etc again so in the first 6 hours i only get a clear 10 minute break.

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

Almost certainly breaking the law - breaks are meant to be taken as breaks, in much the same way as legally guaranteed paid holidays now have to be taken as time off, and in the year they're given (as opposed to worked and paid in-lieu).


Edit: read the original post in haste, and assumed 'washing-up time' meant washing tea-cups, tea-pot, plates etc, not washing hands. On that basis, my reply was partially wrong - employers can make you wash hands, etc, in your statutory allowed breaks. The position on using the toilet during allowed breaks isn't actually spelt out in law one way or another, although most tribunals would say it comes under 'Implied terms in contracts of employment', and the employer can't prevent you from taking breaks when you need them.

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

I replied but read the original post wrong, sorry.

I dunno if the law states that the 20 minutes needs to be within the 6 hours or no longer than 6 hours elapsed, i.e. in your situation 11.40am-12.00 midday, not 12.00 midday-12.20pm?

^OPM^

i get a 20 minute clear tea break after washing hands at 12 to 12.20 pm

^OPM^

basically to sum it up as it is in an 8 hour shift starting at 6 am i get a tea break at 9am till 9.10pm then a lunch break at 12-12.20 pm.

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

I won't take the thread off on a tangent but my little brother has been working through an agency doing labouring work on a construction site. He was being paid £1 an hour extra (so £45 a week as 5x9 hour days) for holidays. So if he wanted a holiday he'd technically been paid for them and would not be paid for the time off.

PM if you want but it seems strange (and I've seen his wage slips as his post comes to my house).

chocolate_o_brian

iTrader: (22)

I don't personally think that's legal but that's my opinion. I base it on the following...

In my old job I worked 10-6 nights. Sometimes we would be forced into 4 hours overtime (flexi-contract), thus working 6-6 nights. Now our first break would be at 9.35pm-9.55pm and supposedly include time to pack equipment away, go through several security checks, clean up and actually sit down. Then the next break would be at 3.00am-3.30am, again with the above palarva to deal with. So 9 hours into a shift before your "normal" 30 minute break you'd get on the 8 hour 10-6 shift. They were just inside the law as the first break was 20 minutes regardless of the fannying about required to even make it into the canteen area.

If they are legal, I bet it's only just

^OPM^

maybe they are just legal not sure as in the first 6 hours i only get 10 minute break the 20 minute one comes between the 6 to 8 hours working part of day.

PaulC72

I always thought it was 1/2 and hour per 8 hours but what oyu are doing has to have an R&R allowance built in, usually around 10%.

I know for people who process where I work on a 7 hour day they get 30mins lunch breaks and around 5 mins to goto the toilet, get a drink etc per hour built into the target (it roughtly works out to 10% if they are sitting down and 13% if they have to get up and move around). That said these are only what my place allows as there is not a set rule for the amount of time to be allow for this.

I would suggest speaking either to someone in HR or a union rep (or CAB)

^OPM^

anyway off to bed as up at 5 ish

^OPM^

The very last people to speak to is HR where i work-they are 100% on management side and would willingly like the bosses see you have no tea breaks

Scooby Soon!

am i missing something? you are entitled to 20 minutes and they are giving you 40 minutes minus the time it takes to wash your hands?

Why dont you ask to take a full hour break unpaid in the middle of your shift if you need more rest?

Chip

Are you in a union?

MMT WRX

Rolled up holiday pay.

RobsyUK

iTrader: (2)

Wash your ***** before work and then you wont need to clean your hands after touching it as it will still be clean

fitzscoob

If you're unsure of your rights, check with ACAS. To give you an idea we allow a tea break for 10 minutes (paid - even though we dont have to) in the morning, then a 30 minute lunch break in the afternoon on a normal 8 hour day.

If one of my employees spent an additional 10 minutes in the toilet to extend their lunch break every day I wouldnt be impressed. If its similar to factory work, every minute is accountable.

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1373

PaulC72

Hence why I said someone in HR not the HR at your company

fitzscoob

Also, its probably worthwhile reading your contract of employment to see what it says about break times.

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employme...ff/DG_10029451

I might be being mental, but it doesn't seem that unclear to me. If you are expected to work over 6 hours, normally (using the words in the above link) and employee would be entitled to a 20 minute break. It doesn't state when that must be taken, it just can't/shouldn't be split. In your case it isn't being split as they are giving you 20 minutes on top of 15 (10 depending on how you want to look at it) they have already allowed you to take earlier. It might not seem like alot, but it seems to fall within working time regs.

Unless you ask if there is the chance of factoring in an unpaid break, I might not kick up too much of a fuss. If they wanted to be dicks, they could take the extra break off you.

As for washing up, I'm not 100% sure law wise, but if we need/want to wash our hands ready for our break, we do it on our break, not add on extra time for it. We are allowed to use the toilet when we need to, but if we were to just pop back to work after a break, then minutes later go for a toilet break, we'd get an earful as they would expect us to go during break time.

Scooby Jo

What you need to read is the Working Time Regulations - you are legally entitled to a 20 minute break if you work beyond 6 hours. Your employers are not doing anything wrong, even if you don't like it..... btw, the regs are deliberately vague on loo breaks as they would be abused on both sides if they were too specific.

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

This is true. The standard is as the link I posted, but different employers vary. Fpr example, I work 8 hours, I get 2x15 minutes paid break and 1hr unpaid dinner. They don't have to do that, but that is the policy we have.

I would imagine if you are being given the breaks you have stated, that is outlined in your contract, but it can't hurt to check just to be sure.

DCI Gene Hunt

What does your contract of employment (that you signed) say?.... I don't mean to sound unfair, but you seem like the type of person that tries to turn a 15minute break into 40 minutes by adding in "transit time", "door opening time", "washing my hands" and "stirring my tea" on top of your agreed break times

JTaylor

Sound advice.

mart360

Ive worked at some strange firms with tea & lunch break restrictions

1) 1@10 mins AM 1@60mins Lunch

2) 1@15 mins AM 1@30 mins Lunch 1@15mins PM

3) 1x 10mins AM or 1X 10mins PM 1@ 20mins Lunch

4) 1@30 mins Lunch Tea breaks - as required


As you can see there's no pattern to what they can do


Although option 4 appears to be the norm for most office based roles, as your having to fit in round shift based activitys elsewhere

Mart

^OPM^

Nope wasn't trying to turn a 15 minute break into a 40 min break-but was just checking out facts -as for a cuppa in 15 mins-you must be laughing-i cant drink a cuppa for about 20 mins tolet it cool down enough first.

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

An idea for you, which is what I do. Make the cuppa then put a little bit cold water in it. Not alot as you don't want to ruin it, just enough to cool it a bit.

fitzscoob

As Lisa said above, add some cold water, or some more milk if thats your taste. Unfortunately its not down to the employer to blow on the top of it for you so you dont burn your mouth.

Sorry if the above seems a little tough, as I get to see these types of petty problems all day long from the other side of the coin and today has been a trying day.

Its very difficult to keep a business going in this day and age, and a lot of staff members seem to think going to work should be like going to a country club (not aimed at you directly). There are a lot of people who should be thankful that they even have a job, its tough out there.

donny andi

iTrader: (3)

Don't think I've had a 'proper' job before , always worked for mates until going at it on my own 10 yr ago.........

Are you not allowed to go for a pi55 or make a brew whenever you want?

fitzscoob

We're pretty flexible for a factory. Generally speaking the staff have a tea break in the morning and a lunch break at afternoon. They have access to drinking water and tea and coffee making facilities, however they cannot be making a tea for themselves every 10 minutes.

Our guys get it pretty good, they normally get in before they start work and have a cup of tea, then they get one made for them at tea break. Most will have one at midday, then at lunch they can do what they want, then thats it until they finish.

If overtime is on, then they'll probably have another tea in the afternoon.