DVLA at it again - Sorn
16 June 2008, 04:45 PM
#1
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DVLA at it again - Sorn
I had my car stolen in January, luckily enough for me it was recovered the same night.
Upon inspection I knew the insurance would write it off, so I took the tax disc out and sent it back for a refund, at the same time I declared it Sorn.
At the time of the theft the car was registered to me using the motor trade/company name part of the V5.
Once the insurance had confirmed they were writing the car off I transfered it so that my name was now on the log book and sent it to the insurance.
A few months later I got a lovely letter from the DVLA and a fine for not declaring Sorn with the option to send in a Sorn confirmation letter or an explantion. I wrote to them describing the car had been stolen and it was with the insurance company along with the log book and also the fact I'd declared Sorn when I claimed my tax back.
They replied saying they would investigate this matter further and would be in touch.
Well today, even though they haven't been in touch I've been issued a final notification, an £80 fine and if I fail to pay one or more of the below:
Vehicle clamped plus incuring further charges
Vehicle removed or destroyed
CCJ
Debt passed to debt collectors
What do you think I should do? I've told them all I can, yet they just send me a fine. I know that a car registered to the trade doesn't need to be sorned so i'm not sure if they send out confirmation letters when one is sorned.
Any help appreciated
Upon inspection I knew the insurance would write it off, so I took the tax disc out and sent it back for a refund, at the same time I declared it Sorn.
At the time of the theft the car was registered to me using the motor trade/company name part of the V5.
Once the insurance had confirmed they were writing the car off I transfered it so that my name was now on the log book and sent it to the insurance.
A few months later I got a lovely letter from the DVLA and a fine for not declaring Sorn with the option to send in a Sorn confirmation letter or an explantion. I wrote to them describing the car had been stolen and it was with the insurance company along with the log book and also the fact I'd declared Sorn when I claimed my tax back.
They replied saying they would investigate this matter further and would be in touch.
Well today, even though they haven't been in touch I've been issued a final notification, an £80 fine and if I fail to pay one or more of the below:
Vehicle clamped plus incuring further charges
Vehicle removed or destroyed
CCJ
Debt passed to debt collectors
What do you think I should do? I've told them all I can, yet they just send me a fine. I know that a car registered to the trade doesn't need to be sorned so i'm not sure if they send out confirmation letters when one is sorned.
Any help appreciated
16 June 2008, 05:14 PM
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Nothing new there: DVLA and ins. co's working at their finest 
As Pete says, send a letter. Also try phoning before sending a letter to back it up (reference the phone call if you can - ref number and FULL name etc.).
Insurance companies are very eager to take off your v5, but seemingly don't like filling in the boxes or informing the DVLA. Leaving you as the registered keeper - owing to any fine implicated on the car after the date the car was removed from your hands.
Knowing this myself, when my car was written off, I had a jolly argument with the insurance co. After they collected the car and wanted the v5....as I wanted to fill in the details of the new address (the address of the salvage company that collected it) and send it to DVLA - they didn't want me to do this, but I KNOW they don't process the v5 in any timely manner - if at all. Thus anything happening to the car in that time comes back to me. I don't want that, and so they aren't getting that precious V5 without a fight:
So, this is how I did it: I sent the v5 to the ins co, but AFTER I had managed to get the full details from the ins co of the current locations of the vehicle and who was in possesion of it - in writing (fax actually). A copy of this was then sent to the DVLA accompanied by a letter from myself explaining that as of xx date, I am not the keeper of the car and will not be held liable to anything relating to the car from that point onwards, and that the V5 was given to the insurance company "xxx" upon their specific request. And sent it signed delivery.
- Its the only way to be sure.
As Pete says, send a letter. Also try phoning before sending a letter to back it up (reference the phone call if you can - ref number and FULL name etc.).
Insurance companies are very eager to take off your v5, but seemingly don't like filling in the boxes or informing the DVLA. Leaving you as the registered keeper - owing to any fine implicated on the car after the date the car was removed from your hands.
Knowing this myself, when my car was written off, I had a jolly argument with the insurance co. After they collected the car and wanted the v5....as I wanted to fill in the details of the new address (the address of the salvage company that collected it) and send it to DVLA - they didn't want me to do this, but I KNOW they don't process the v5 in any timely manner - if at all. Thus anything happening to the car in that time comes back to me. I don't want that, and so they aren't getting that precious V5 without a fight:
So, this is how I did it: I sent the v5 to the ins co, but AFTER I had managed to get the full details from the ins co of the current locations of the vehicle and who was in possesion of it - in writing (fax actually). A copy of this was then sent to the DVLA accompanied by a letter from myself explaining that as of xx date, I am not the keeper of the car and will not be held liable to anything relating to the car from that point onwards, and that the V5 was given to the insurance company "xxx" upon their specific request. And sent it signed delivery.
- Its the only way to be sure.
16 June 2008, 05:26 PM
#4
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Nothing new there: DVLA and ins. co's working at their finest
As Pete says, send a letter. Also try phoning before sending a letter to back it up (reference the phone call if you can - ref number and FULL name etc.).
Insurance companies are very eager to take off your v5, but seemingly don't like filling in the boxes or informing the DVLA. Leaving you as the registered keeper - owing to any fine implicated on the car after the date the car was removed from your hands.
Knowing this myself, when my car was written off, I had a jolly argument with the insurance co. After they collected the car and wanted the v5....as I wanted to fill in the details of the new address (the address of the salvage company that collected it) and send it to DVLA - they didn't want me to do this, but I KNOW they don't process the v5 in any timely manner - if at all. Thus anything happening to the car in that time comes back to me. I don't want that, and so they aren't getting that precious V5 without a fight:
So, this is how I did it: I sent the v5 to the ins co, but AFTER I had managed to get the full details from the ins co of the current locations of the vehicle and who was in possesion of it - in writing (fax actually). A copy of this was then sent to the DVLA accompanied by a letter from myself explaining that as of xx date, I am not the keeper of the car and will not be held liable to anything relating to the car from that point onwards, and that the V5 was given to the insurance company "xxx" upon their specific request. And sent it signed delivery.
- Its the only way to be sure.
As Pete says, send a letter. Also try phoning before sending a letter to back it up (reference the phone call if you can - ref number and FULL name etc.).
Insurance companies are very eager to take off your v5, but seemingly don't like filling in the boxes or informing the DVLA. Leaving you as the registered keeper - owing to any fine implicated on the car after the date the car was removed from your hands.
Knowing this myself, when my car was written off, I had a jolly argument with the insurance co. After they collected the car and wanted the v5....as I wanted to fill in the details of the new address (the address of the salvage company that collected it) and send it to DVLA - they didn't want me to do this, but I KNOW they don't process the v5 in any timely manner - if at all. Thus anything happening to the car in that time comes back to me. I don't want that, and so they aren't getting that precious V5 without a fight:
So, this is how I did it: I sent the v5 to the ins co, but AFTER I had managed to get the full details from the ins co of the current locations of the vehicle and who was in possesion of it - in writing (fax actually). A copy of this was then sent to the DVLA accompanied by a letter from myself explaining that as of xx date, I am not the keeper of the car and will not be held liable to anything relating to the car from that point onwards, and that the V5 was given to the insurance company "xxx" upon their specific request. And sent it signed delivery.
- Its the only way to be sure.
BUT whatever you send them make sure it's recorded!
Dave
17 June 2008, 11:12 AM
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This country is so screwed up! Not only do you get the hassle of having to manage and pre-empt invoice-happy government agencies' inadequacies, you also have to send them everything recorded delivery at extra cost or they dont even believe you! Arghhh!!!
D
D
17 June 2008, 12:01 PM
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The problem is the people working for them; they are just incompetant or not bothered. The ones at the top are intentionally obstructive to good practice and shortsighted when it comes to implementing systems and overseeing the general output of their workforce (for example: employing IT staff that don't know basic book-keeping/accounting to create a billing system...which ends up adding VAT on indiviual amounts on an invoice instead of the whole lot - tax man won't mind though 
).
This seemingly is a plague amongst the UK's workforce - its a struggle to find anyone dedicated or good willing enough to help you with any enquiry that is not routine, or requires a bit of extra effort. Now its extending onto people who can't even get their basic job role right. The consequences of such is myself having to do everything more than twice and back everything up with hard copies, fully referenced, including names, dates times and logging detailed conversations of anything verbal, electronic or paper based to make sure everything that I have and been told is cast iron.
If this is what the economy is built on, then we can easily foresee what is to come in the future...
<political mode = OFF> Sorry
). This seemingly is a plague amongst the UK's workforce - its a struggle to find anyone dedicated or good willing enough to help you with any enquiry that is not routine, or requires a bit of extra effort. Now its extending onto people who can't even get their basic job role right. The consequences of such is myself having to do everything more than twice and back everything up with hard copies, fully referenced, including names, dates times and logging detailed conversations of anything verbal, electronic or paper based to make sure everything that I have and been told is cast iron.
If this is what the economy is built on, then we can easily foresee what is to come in the future...
<political mode = OFF> Sorry
Last edited by Shark Man; 17 June 2008 at 12:09 PM.
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17 June 2008, 12:48 PM
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I should write a letter to the head of department explaining it all in a logical sequence. Tell them you are fed up of being victimised and that if you have to write another letter that you will be sending a bill for your trouble. I hope you have documentary evidence of all that went on with the car. If you have send them a photocopy of the evidence. Tell them if they threaten you with a summons that you will claim substantial costs at the court.
You must send the letter by recorded delivery.
Good luck
Les
You must send the letter by recorded delivery.
Good luck
Les
17 June 2008, 12:55 PM
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I had a similar situation with them.
It took 11 months before they finally backed down and waived the fine.
I asked them to start court proceedings as I knew I had the evidence as I was sick of repeating myself in the letters I was sending them.
Don't back down as they will give in if you stick to your guns and have the evidence to prove you complied.
It took 11 months before they finally backed down and waived the fine.
I asked them to start court proceedings as I knew I had the evidence as I was sick of repeating myself in the letters I was sending them.
Don't back down as they will give in if you stick to your guns and have the evidence to prove you complied.
17 June 2008, 01:07 PM
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Because I've been on the receiving end of this sort of incompetence several times, provided I am in the right (which of course I always am) I just let them get on with it. Sooner or later you'll get a bailiff's letter demanding payment. At this point I write to the bailiffs (the telephone is a complete waste of time for obvious reasons) explaining exactly why I am right and everybody else is totally incompetent and that if they persist I will take them to court for time lost, expenses etc.
My reasoning is that in this way they waste as much time and money as possible chasing the false crime up which I reckon serves them right for their incompetence. The DVLA, Councils, Police etc have a duty to act with competence (chipped wheelie bins anyone) and I cannot see why it's down to us to put in all the effort to rectify problems brought about by said incompetence, which generally relates to their over zealous efforts to fine us for some petty irrelevance anyway.
Couple of times now I thought I'd seen the last of one of these, only to have a second bailiff hassleing me five years later out of the blue having no doubt ressurected my account after buying it as a job lot from the original bailiffs. So the incompetence just never ends as long as somebody thinks they have a chance to use the system to take you for a ride.
Kevin
My reasoning is that in this way they waste as much time and money as possible chasing the false crime up which I reckon serves them right for their incompetence. The DVLA, Councils, Police etc have a duty to act with competence (chipped wheelie bins anyone) and I cannot see why it's down to us to put in all the effort to rectify problems brought about by said incompetence, which generally relates to their over zealous efforts to fine us for some petty irrelevance anyway.
Couple of times now I thought I'd seen the last of one of these, only to have a second bailiff hassleing me five years later out of the blue having no doubt ressurected my account after buying it as a job lot from the original bailiffs. So the incompetence just never ends as long as somebody thinks they have a chance to use the system to take you for a ride.
Kevin
07 August 2008, 06:43 PM
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Well, I got a letter from a debt collection company today Obviously the DVLA weren't intersted in my explanation again.
Letter as follows:
Pre litigation notice
We have been advised by our client DVLA that you have failed to renew your vehicle excise duty or make a statutory off road notification for the following vehicle.....
Penalty issued 05.04.08 Offence date 30.01.08
This is an offence as a result of which, you as the registered kepper of this vehicle have been notified by the DVLA and you have failed to pay the late licensing penalty which has been passed to us to collect.
What you must do:
-Contact us immediately on the telephone
-Send payment
-Pay online
Failure to pay may result in one of the following:
-Prosecuted and fined a minimum £1000
-Vehicle may be clamped
-Vehicle may be removed and destroyed.
Any advice on my next move?
Tia
Obviously the DVLA weren't intersted in my explanation again. Letter as follows:
Pre litigation notice
We have been advised by our client DVLA that you have failed to renew your vehicle excise duty or make a statutory off road notification for the following vehicle.....
Penalty issued 05.04.08 Offence date 30.01.08
This is an offence as a result of which, you as the registered kepper of this vehicle have been notified by the DVLA and you have failed to pay the late licensing penalty which has been passed to us to collect.
What you must do:
-Contact us immediately on the telephone
-Send payment
-Pay online
Failure to pay may result in one of the following:
-Prosecuted and fined a minimum £1000
-Vehicle may be clamped
-Vehicle may be removed and destroyed.
Any advice on my next move?
Tia
Last edited by scoobyvirgin; 07 August 2008 at 06:57 PM. Reason: Accuracy
07 August 2008, 06:58 PM
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Then stick to your guns.
They can't enforce anything. They can take you to court, though. This is where you produce your evidence (if you have it) and win.
No one can force you to pay anything without giving you your chance to fight it in court.
Assuming you have your evidence write back saying you'd like it sorted in court.
They can't enforce anything. They can take you to court, though. This is where you produce your evidence (if you have it) and win.
No one can force you to pay anything without giving you your chance to fight it in court.
Assuming you have your evidence write back saying you'd like it sorted in court.
07 August 2008, 07:38 PM
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If Im readig it right, the DVLA are technically in the right.
You cashed in the tax and declared sorn, then transfered the car to yourown name? If so, you need to re-sorn the car after the change of ownership. SORN doesnt continue under the new owner automatically, it has to bere-declared.
Fight it anyway, I have done a couple of times by repeatedly writing to them via ecorded delivery stating my cases, and eventually had the fines dropped.
You cashed in the tax and declared sorn, then transfered the car to yourown name? If so, you need to re-sorn the car after the change of ownership. SORN doesnt continue under the new owner automatically, it has to bere-declared.
Fight it anyway, I have done a couple of times by repeatedly writing to them via ecorded delivery stating my cases, and eventually had the fines dropped.
07 August 2008, 09:28 PM
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I've found emailing them so you have a full audit trail very helpful in dealing with the DVLA plus you can see how terribly long it takes them to reply
AllanB
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08 August 2008, 09:04 AM
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I would send a recorded delivery letter to the DVLA, the debt collector and your solicitor explaining all the details (again), and you do not expect to have any further harrasment over the issue. If they want to pursue the matter further then invite them to take you to court as you will not enter into any further correspondance with anyone
08 August 2008, 10:32 AM
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I had my car stolen in January, luckily enough for me it was recovered the same night.
Upon inspection I knew the insurance would write it off, so I took the tax disc out and sent it back for a refund, at the same time I declared it Sorn.
At the time of the theft the car was registered to me using the motor trade/company name part of the V5.
Once the insurance had confirmed they were writing the car off I transfered it so that my name was now on the log book and sent it to the insurance.
A few months later I got a lovely letter from the DVLA and a fine for not declaring Sorn with the option to send in a Sorn confirmation letter or an explantion. I wrote to them describing the car had been stolen and it was with the insurance company along with the log book and also the fact I'd declared Sorn when I claimed my tax back.
They replied saying they would investigate this matter further and would be in touch.
Well today, even though they haven't been in touch I've been issued a final notification, an £80 fine and if I fail to pay one or more of the below:
Vehicle clamped plus incuring further charges
Vehicle removed or destroyed
CCJ
Debt passed to debt collectors
What do you think I should do? I've told them all I can, yet they just send me a fine. I know that a car registered to the trade doesn't need to be sorned so i'm not sure if they send out confirmation letters when one is sorned.
Any help appreciated
Upon inspection I knew the insurance would write it off, so I took the tax disc out and sent it back for a refund, at the same time I declared it Sorn.
At the time of the theft the car was registered to me using the motor trade/company name part of the V5.
Once the insurance had confirmed they were writing the car off I transfered it so that my name was now on the log book and sent it to the insurance.
A few months later I got a lovely letter from the DVLA and a fine for not declaring Sorn with the option to send in a Sorn confirmation letter or an explantion. I wrote to them describing the car had been stolen and it was with the insurance company along with the log book and also the fact I'd declared Sorn when I claimed my tax back.
They replied saying they would investigate this matter further and would be in touch.
Well today, even though they haven't been in touch I've been issued a final notification, an £80 fine and if I fail to pay one or more of the below:
Vehicle clamped plus incuring further charges
Vehicle removed or destroyed
CCJ
Debt passed to debt collectors
What do you think I should do? I've told them all I can, yet they just send me a fine. I know that a car registered to the trade doesn't need to be sorned so i'm not sure if they send out confirmation letters when one is sorned.
Any help appreciated
What you've done seems reasonable, just not quite what DVLA was expecting.
You appear to have gained no benefit from the situation re. DVLA. i.e. you're not stiffing them. I think a registered letter sent to the debt collectors stating you want to go to court and will not be deflected from the course of action. May be the simplest course. And may also stop the £££ accumulator that these bl**dy companies seem to put in motion every time they need to fart in your direction.
J.
Last edited by vindaloo; 08 August 2008 at 10:40 AM. Reason: Re-read the initial post...
08 August 2008, 11:44 AM
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[QUOTE=fatherpierre;8055193]win.
No one can force you to pay anything without giving you your chance to fight it in court.
[QUOTE]
This is no longer true in the UK. Council tax disputes and parking authorities can all issue fines with no right for you to appeal to a court. This is Bliars legacy.
No one can force you to pay anything without giving you your chance to fight it in court.
[QUOTE]
This is no longer true in the UK. Council tax disputes and parking authorities can all issue fines with no right for you to appeal to a court. This is Bliars legacy.
08 August 2008, 11:46 AM
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08 August 2008, 11:51 AM
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If you refuse to pay council tax fines then they send a court appointed baliff it does not go to court. Parking tickets have the same system refuse to pay and they send a baliff.
08 August 2008, 11:55 AM
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I mean when people get sent to prison for non payment of council tax, they don't just get picked up from home and dropped off at wormwood scrubs.
08 August 2008, 11:59 AM
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^^ Thet's them enforcing payment 
No opportunity to prove your innocence it just goes to court, then the bailiffs. You can't refuse to pay the bailiffs can you?
TX.
No opportunity to prove your innocence it just goes to court, then the bailiffs. You can't refuse to pay the bailiffs can you?TX.
08 August 2008, 12:00 PM
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Council tax protester jailed for non-payment | Independent, The (London) | Find Articles at BNET
08 August 2008, 12:04 PM
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