Regacy

Simple question, I’ve been reading the thread about 4x4s and I can’t help thinking there are some fairly hypocritical views being expresses in there. People who choose to drive cars that can travel at twice the speed limit and accelerate far faster than is necessary (or safe in some peoples hands) criticising people who have chosen to buy cars that are probably twice as big as they need to be. It seems to me to be a lifestyle choice on both counts and one could criticise both groups equally
So what do you think?

(I drive a Discovery and my last car was a Subaru so I loose on all counts, but I’m happy)

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

can you park your hulking great 4*4 ?
can you drive it the same as a normal saloon/estate?
do you think that being inside a tank gives you a right to act however you want because after all, no one will react against a 4*4?

thats the problem with suburban mums in big 4*4's.

I drive a scooby and its a 4 door saloon car to get me to work first, its just it has the ability to jekyll/hide itself into a fun toy at the weekends.

Jen

I drive a Discovery and my last car was a Subaru as well and I would say I'm happy too... people on the other thread think 4x4 drivers should take an extra test because of the size - just as an example, what about someone who has a car which can do 0-60 in under 8 seconds? That's 'unusal' too...shouldn't we have a test for that as well?

P.S. My Discovery is easier to drive than the Scoob was, parking, steering, brake response etc.etc.

Jen

Do get Andy's point of view as well though - but I think that's more down to driver attitude than the vehicle... i.e. you get 'school mums' who drive their Volvo's the same way as well...

jasey

I've been pishing myself at some of the comments in the 4x4 thread from people who clearly drive a fiesta 950 Pop+.

As you said driving a 200-400 bhp Rice-Rocket on British roads should be banned a long time before 4x4's are banned. I'm not saying either should be banned - just if you're going to start banning certain vehicles this should (and would) be the order !

Be careful what you ask for !

Regacy

Peanuts, that's a rather bigoted view of the world, do you apply it to other areas of just big cars?
What about people who eat more than they need?
What about people who live in bigger houses than they need?
What about people who earn more money than they need?
Aren’t they all in some way depriving others of, if not rights, certainly opportunities?
Your posts don't usually make you sound like a socialist so I'm rather confused as to why you believe the right to choose a larger car should be taken away from people?

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

LOL
Im by no means a socialist, the reason I want 4*4's off the road (which is where they should be after all ) is because the incompitant mums who cannot control them.

if Im not allowed to ban them, how about you let me put a special area in all car parks for 4*4's only?
that way they wouldnt be damageing my property with their vehicle being wider than the width of a bay.
in a city environment they are pointless, nothing that an estate car couldnt cope with.

the examples you cite above dont involve the detriment of someone else, we know about famine but if you eat an extra mars bar at lunch does it honestly affect African famine victims?
if the boss of BP didnt get £1m a year in bonus would you get any of it?
if Posh and Becks didnt have a big mansion would you get part of the bricks and mortar? a slice of the land?
nope.
when the **** down my road parks half on/off the pavement and my wife cant push her disabled mother on the pavement and is forced to push her in the road does it affect us?
fukcing right it does.

Pastor

Stereotype of the outsize SUV driver is of some dopey bint who cannot park or drive it properly. Sad to say I see quite a few of them dropping off their kids on my drive to work in the morning.
The thing about stereotypes is they often arise because they are true. Before anyone starts banging on about drivers of jap performance cars, I fail to see what that has to do with the issue in hand. Although I do admit a lot of the stereotypes are true in that case as well. Just as they are with the stereotype of the arrogant BMW driver, sad rep man in his Vectra, little old lady unable to drive her supermini properly etc.
My real beef with large SUV's is their owners seeming lack of ability to control them properly and their propensity for driving up pavements, parking antisocially and worst of all watching them hit other people's cars because of the unsuitability of a large vehicle with poor visibility for unskilled drivers.
Make 'em pass a test to drive them and for those that prefer reciprocal arguments I'd be quite happy to take (and pass) a similar course for drivers of high performance cars.

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

of course, if they intorduced a test for 4*4's then a large percentage of the suburban mums wouldnt be capable of passing.

I use my car weekends to go quickly on private land.
I know Jen uses a 4*4 to go up muddy hills at the weekends.

what does mrs Williams in Guildford use her 4*4 for (sic.) that warrants its ownership over say an estate vehicle.

Pastor

That's the idea ban the unskilled from using the vehicles. I'm also in favour of regular retesting for drivers of all vehicles (along with mandatory drug and alcohol tests) but that's another matter.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Another vote for more testing - or at least, different categories on the licence for different types of vehicle in terms of size and performance. It's pretty laughable that someone who passes their test in a 1.1l Fiesta can go out and buy a 300bhp STI or a hulking great Land Cruiser without any further training.

On the other hand, it seems to me that most of the complaints about 4x4 drivers are nothing to do with ability to control the car, but simple road manners - a limitation brought about by conscious decision rather than lack of capability. You get people with poor road manners in every type of car - in my experience Saab and VW Golf drivers are the worst - but things like inconsiderate parking just matter more in 4x4s because of their size.

My real beef is with any vehicle that's not actually used for its intended purpose on a regular basis. My boss loves his Land Rovers and regularly takes them off road, so fair play to him. A performance car may never reach its top speed on the public road, but we can all enjoy the acceleration and the feel at the helm on a regular basis, so that's OK too. On the other hand, if either car is only ever used to shuttle kids to and from school then it's a waste and not an appropriate choice of car.

Pastor

Perhaps though the reason they choose SUV's is because of the type of driver they are, thus why there seems to be a larger percentage of anti social, poorly skilled drivers of such vehicles.
After all if you can't park properly (or just don't care) what better vehicle to choose than something that you can just drive up kerbs in?

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

More than likely - easier to buy a tank than to learn how not to damage a normal car.

Banning the car doesn't help, though - there would just be more poorly driven other cars with kerbed wheels around instead. At least 4x4s (that aren't covered in mud ) are easy to spot and avoid.

Regacy

I think I understand the argument now.
It's not that 4x4 drivers are worse at driving, it's that they're more obvious.
So when they park badly or drive badly they stand out more than everyone else that drives badly making them an obvious target.
It's like most things in life; you tend to find what you're looking for more often than things you're not looking for.

jasey

The root of the argument seems to be more of "If you can't handle your motor then get a different one" or better still get a bus pass.

However labelling all 4x4 drivers on the basis of a few is a bad as saying all Labour Prime Ministers are clueless lying fcukwits.

Tiggs

i saw a woman in a P1 today...parked like a retard..BAN SUBARUS!

ppl buy big 4X4s because they like them...they are big and chunky and many ppl find that cool.......in the same way that ppl like stickers on their cars, big exhausts, changing their rear lights to look like a lexus, lowering their cars, fitting light bulbs under them, making their wheels bigger than needed, etc,etc.......many of those ppl drive like *****....and lets include nova muppets in with the subarus and evos because you are all one and the same....just seperated by 5 years and a few £££.

InvisibleMan

where i live near a school is full of mums in their 4*4 tanks -X5,volvos, mercs & porsches hate them all.

The road was flooded it was soooo deep well ok it was just a puddle it wasnt even tread depth but it caused choas, they had to drive down the centre of the road at 1mph

Tiggs

so you're just anti woman then? in any car? nice attitude, been single long?

Pastor

Did you really? How about some pictorial evidence? I could go and get you some re : fat MIWLF's poor parking in SUV's from outside the local school in a short while if I could be bothered to go and get it. In fact if you care to take a look yourself near a school at kicking out time you could get your own.
What has that to do with SUV's and the city bound fwits that tend to own them? Start another thread on that subject! Can't understand for the life of me how these subjects are related.
Yes people like SUV's and I'm welcome to draw my own conclusions based on my observations and share them here on this thread which relates to them.
Start your own thread on Subaru owners based on your views and let's see how it goes.
In the meantime SUV drivers don't look cool, they look like the selfish, skill bereft, conspicuous consumers they are.

Tiggs

"In the meantime SUV drivers don't look cool, they look like the selfish, skill bereft, conspicuous consumers they are. "


to who???

ppl like to be liked by the ppl they like and mix with. school mums like their cars to be liked by the other school mums (sure you can grasp that, there is a whole forum here for ppl to get wood looking at other ppls alloys wheels)

bearing that in mind, i doubt school mum is going to care what some plastic jap car driving hlafords loving maxpower graduate thinks...hence your last line is opinion, and not relevant.

Diablo

LOL

I'm with tiggs (again ) on this one.

Whats worse, a incompetent mother in a jeep, or some **** in a stickered up, loud, tacky, thirsty, Subaru?

And lets be honest here, the majority of "performance" car drivers don't use their car's full capabilities in the same manner as the average 4X4 driver doesn't.

Makes me laugh...

One anti social group slagging off another

Pastor

I qualify on one count as I do drive at least one plastic jap car but of course have driven and owned many others. Unfortunately for you I don't shop at halfords, have spoliers on my car or oversize, ride destroying alloys. Some do and I reserve my right to keep my opinion on them to myself.

If you think being judged as cool by some school run mothers in any way qualifies one as cool in the real world then all I can say is....................I pity you.

Enjoy the adulation of the MIWLF's.

This 'debate' has at least made me realise that yes, it is a free world and if people want to look tastless and crass then that's their choice. It's also my choice to laugh at them as you seemingly do to the Impreza drivers of this world, agreed?

Ringpeas

They should certainly ban Bullbars

Why not just stick a lance on the front of your car

My only gripe with the big 4x4s is the amount of space they take up, not how impractical, uneconomical or flashy they are.
And to their drivers, next time leave your insurance details when you scrape the side of my car, you selfish f*ckwits

Regacy

Some people in Germany think wearing short leather dungarees is cool.
The fact that those outside that circle do not share the view doesn't detract from their enjoyment.

Tiggs

"My only gripe with the big 4x4s is the amount of space they take up"

what about an E class? a 7 series? a van? a volvo 850.......does that extra bit of size really matter (on a car)

Scooby-Doo

The X5 is based on a 5 series so any car that is equal or bigger than a 5 series should be banned or is it an issue with raised suspension ?

As for being socially unacceptable if you own a Scoob in south London that is black with an Orange bonnet and the fact your decat wakes me and my family up every night going past when we finally meet on the road I will see if my 4x4 can run you over.

Pastor

lol@scooby-doo I know someone who fits that mould exactly but it aint me.

Sprint Chief

I liked Jeremy Clarkson's analysis which went something like this: 4x4s are like nuclear weapons. They offer increased safety in the event of an accident, to the owner - but offer increased danger to everyone who doesn't own them! So the only solution is multilateral ownership - or multilateral disarmament

My opinion? Everyone has a right to drive what they want, but I would encourage manufacturers to make 4x4s safer to other vehicles (much like Volvo have already started). Bullbars have no place on UK roads unless they are made of polystyrene. Booooring!

PS. The parking gene, which gives people the ability to park cars in less than 5 hours and without destruction of nearby shop frontage, is only found in the Y chromosome. Scientific fact.

Lum

That was me, and yes I would like that option, perhaps coming with the privelage of allowing you to do a ton on the motorways.

Since the IAM have given in to the speed kills lobby there is no tuition and test available for driving fast safely apart from short and expensive rally training days which don't really apply to the public road anyway.

Diesel

>>tastless and crass<< this might apply to Japanese 4X4's but it most certainly does not apply to British ones my good fellow Land Rovers are neither of those things, and certainly have no crassy scoopage and the like

This is all a bit silly and bigoted really and rather a waste of time and thoughts!

I had a 2 seat car with no boot and a 5 litre V8 engine; I used to go like fu** in it. It did about 18 to the gallon.

I now have a family and have a car that can carry me, the large dog, the baby, the missus, a mate, the pushchair, the coolbox, 3 suitcases and it has a 4.6 V8. It too does 18mpg. I never go over 70 in it - its not about trying to go F A S T. It is fabulous car. Which is worse?

I was just reading Ken Livingstone's views on them and he thinks they use too much petrol and pollute proportionally more; he then jumped in a taxi. They also kill more pedestrians when one is presented to them...so...

I think the first step could be to ban 'jaywalking'. This would save even more dumb pedestrians from ALL dumb car drivers; but NO the bigotry kicks in and the need to BAN is first.

Horrible thing intolerance.

D

PS an Audi S4 Cabriolet also does 18mpg - should we ban this too, or would the soft roof cushion a bouncing pedestrian

PPS should we ban all racing and trackdays based on the 6mpg our Scoobs did on them?