TopBanana

Just got my contract renewal, and spoke to my manager about how much they pay for me. I was shocked to learn that my agency are taking a 25% cut - this is despite their (verbal) assurances that they were taking about 10% And get this, when I first took the contract my agency said the client's offer was conditional on me coming in at a slightly lower rate. It now turns out that this was a complete lie, and it was the agency being greedy w@nkers. My manager has agreed that they shouldn't get more than 10% for me, and I'm going to demand it now. I don't see it being a problem.

I have no evidence of what they did, so can anyone think of a crafty way of entrapping them? In effect, I should have been earning 20% more. I haven't invoiced in a few months, and I want them to apply this retrospectively to my uninvoiced time.

fast bloke

This is what is generally termed business.
You agreed to work for them for a set rate - Its up to them how much to charge you on at. It is unlikely that you will be able to invoice retrospectively, but if you want to up your rates now you could try renegotiating your contract based un what you now know. Careful though - they might tell you to bugger off

TopBanana

And a set commission.

TurboKitty

If they do tell you to stuff off ask your manager if he's willing to negotiate a direct contract with you on the basis that the agency are obviously not behaving in an acceptable fashion.

Yes, it will be against the terms of the contract, but it's a two-way street imo.

zax

"I have no evidence of what they did, so can anyone think of a crafty way of entrapping them? In effect, I should have been earning 20% more. I haven't invoiced in a few months, and I want them to apply this retrospectively to my uninvoiced time."

You signed the contract and the rate you received was presumably acceptable or you wouldn't have signed, the actions of the agency are irrelevant. Applying a rate increase retrospectively isn't going to fly.

If you're up for renewal try to negotiate a better deal this time using the facts you've mentioned and take things from there. And if you can negotiate a 20% rate rise in the current climate, good on you

TopBanana

I think some of you are missing the point. That money was effectively mine from the start. My client thought I was getting more than I was, and I was lied to about how much the agency were getting.

TopBanana

It had crossed my mind, but I don't think it'll come to that. My client is (almost!) as pissed off as I am, and the agency would lose any chance of doing business with them in the future.

Badger Stuffer

That is a bit harsh but remember:

Tyhere are plenty of contractors around at the moment and you CAN be easily replaced.

The agents margin does not come out of your pay. It is added on top of your rate and passed onto the client.

You can't go direct to the client or both you and the client will be in breach of the contract.

Take care......E-mail me off line if you want any more info.

medders

My brothers girlfriend had the same thing happen. The client put pressure onto the agency on her behalf and they upped her rate.
If your boss is that upset he should do this for you.
Agencies are fighting for contracts and wouldn't want to lose 20% in order to give you an extra 5% ?

Paul

[Edited by medders - 2/27/2003 11:58:08 AM]

TopBanana

True, but I have a very good relationship with the client.

So they're taking 33% !!!

This would definately be a last resort anyway, but the client has scores of contractors on site and the agency does a lot of business here.

ProperCharlie

I don't really see how the money was effectively yours from the start. In my experience most agencies work on more than 10%. If they have been a bit *economic with the truth* in what they told you they were taking - I don't see anything very unusual in that. Most agencies do not discuss what their mark-up is with the employee in any case; it's between the agent and the hiring company.

TopBanana

And they assured the client it was 10%!

zax

"That money was effectively mine from the start. "

No it wasn't. It was the agency's, earned by playing both sides against each other. Your money was the money you agreed to accept for doing the work as specified in your contract. I don't agree with what they've done any more than you do, but let it go. You're in a strong position to re-negotiate especially if the client is on your side, so go for it and put the rest down to experience...

TopBanana

When all's said and done, I probably will let it go. OK so the money is legally theirs but morally mine!! I wonder if it'll pay for a moral westfield?

Badger Stuffer

And do you think that the client has not got a better relationship with the agent that has put "Scores" of contractors onto their site. Will they risk loosing that relationship with an agent that obviously does a good job for them just to get you a bit more.

Both you and the client are bound into contracts and you will find it difficult to make them review them.

If I was you I would shut up for the minutre and re-negotiate at the end of this contract. But remember, you can and will be replaced if you cause trouble for the agent. The client will almost always take the side of the agent. You manager may be on your side but it probably will not be his decision what agents they use so his back-up will be very limited.

fast bloke

They may have claimed a 10% net margin, but are actually taking more on the basis of overhead recovery, admin fees etc etc. An agency would find it very difficult to survive on a straight 10% margin.

TopBanana

The agency only has me on site out of the scores of contractors, but there's a lot of potential business here. They've already pissed off my manager by constantly ringing / emailing.

They don't do a good job, except at being ****-sucking parasitic scum.

MarkO

I have to agree with everything that's been said already. The only person in the contractor-client-agency relationship who can complain about the cut the agency takes is the client. If they agreed with the agency that that agency would take 10%, and the agency went ahead and took 20%, then that's an issue for the client and agency to sort out. It's got absolutely nothing to do with the contractor - if you signed the contract listing a particular rate, then that's the rate you get, regardless of whether the agent is making twice as much as you are.

One thing you should also consider before you kick up a fuss is that most contracts I've had have specifically forbidden the contractor to discuss his rate with anybody - particularly with the client or other contractors on site. If you kick up a fuss about the rate you're on with the client, rather than going via the agent, you could find yourself in breach of contract....

And anyway, your post title "My agency's been fleecing me"....so what's different to every other agent/contractor relationship?!

TopBanana

You're all heartless *******s. Boo hoooo

carl

I agree with MarkO -- it seems, though, that most of the contractors on uk.consultants think completely the opposite

When you go to buy something from a shop (e.g. a necklace for the missus) you don't ask the shopkeeper what their markup on it is, do you? He negotiates a price he's happy with from the wholesaler, and you negotiate a price you're happy with from him. You don't say "I'll take that necklace for what you paid +10%"

TopBanana

Hello people! The agency LIED to me and my client. They are profiteering in the current climate of 'sign it or sign on'

MarkO

LOL. Heartless, maybe. But given the market you should be glad you're in a contract at all.

This thread is a typical example of why my last contract and my current one are direct, and not through an agent...

Oh, and if it makes you feel any better, my 2nd contract was with an agency who's commission was about 40% of my rate. So effectively for every 3 hours the client paid for, I only saw 2 hours' rate.

On the upside though, when the client and I wrote the agent out of the contract in a subsequent renewal, we split the difference meaning the client got me about 15% cheaper, and I got a nice 20% rate rise into the bargain.

carl

That's normal for an agency. Why should they discuss their markup with you at all
If there's been a breach of trust, it's between the client and the agency.

ProperCharlie

and I've just noticed my ****ing government's been fleecing me. 39.35% of my money knocked off every pay slip and that's not even including employer's NI. Did I agree to this?

MarkO

As I've already said (and Carl has re-iterated) that is a contractual issue between the agent and the client. It has absolutely ****-all to do with you, I'm afraid. Most agents/clients don't even discuss the margin with contractors (for exactly the reason we're seeing in this thread).

And even if the client sorts it out, there's no reason why they should pass on the extra margin to you, unless they're very charitable indeed....

TopBanana

Yes it is.

Client: 'We will offer £x pr hour for his skills and we want you to only take 10% commission, as per our agreement'
Agency: Yes sir, whatever you say sir.
*CLICK*
BMW dealer: A 318i with ALL the bodykit options? Why of course

TopBanana

The client pays about the same for everyone here, so it's fair. Manager thinks I'm being underpaid so nerrr

carl

I can see why the client would specify a commission rate. They may be willing to pay (say) £40 per hour, but for that they want someone worth £40 per hour. If they didn't specify a commission rate, the agency could get some numptie in for £10 ph and cream off the other £30 ph.

Badger Stuffer

jlanng. You are obviously very bitter.

I would be very careful. I have seen contractors booted off for less. Then you will have to look for more work which is hard in this climate and will be fcuked for a reference and have to explain why you were booted off to all future agents and clients.

There is a hornets nest here and I suggest you don't stir it up.

TopBanana

Badger: I guess it comes down to the fact that I can't stand being lied to by anyone.

My manager is supporting my rate rise. In fact, I'll probably just say to the agency - I've been offered a renewal but I want an extra £y. Yes I am indeed most vexed, I'm not about to burn any bridges