No more blue lights
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
No more blue lights
Its good to see the powers that be are on the side of the emergency services:
"Officers should drive in a way which is lawful and does not contravene the laws of dangerous or careless driving.
"Officers are advised not to undertake any manoeuvre which may well fall outside the standard of the careful and competent non-police driver."
It adds: “A typical response or pursuit drive is likely to involve the officer contravening traffic signs and or speed limits. A course of driving involving contravention of traffic signs and speed limits is very likely to fall within the definition of careless or dangerous driving.
“Officers are required by law to drive to the standard of the careful and competent driver. Not the careful and competent police driver, the careful and competent (non-police) driver. This is the standard police drivers will be held to.
“There are no legal exemptions from the offences of careless or dangerous driving. Any such drives are therefore likely to be unlawful, placing the driver at risk of prosecution and proceedings for gross misconduct.”
Wonder if any of the drivers who responded to the Westminster incident or the fire crews that attended the Grenfell incident will be looked at for going through a red light, or going over the speed limit?
Or is there now any justification in perusing or driving on blues & twos if it risks gross misconduct?
"Officers should drive in a way which is lawful and does not contravene the laws of dangerous or careless driving.
"Officers are advised not to undertake any manoeuvre which may well fall outside the standard of the careful and competent non-police driver."
It adds: “A typical response or pursuit drive is likely to involve the officer contravening traffic signs and or speed limits. A course of driving involving contravention of traffic signs and speed limits is very likely to fall within the definition of careless or dangerous driving.
“Officers are required by law to drive to the standard of the careful and competent driver. Not the careful and competent police driver, the careful and competent (non-police) driver. This is the standard police drivers will be held to.
“There are no legal exemptions from the offences of careless or dangerous driving. Any such drives are therefore likely to be unlawful, placing the driver at risk of prosecution and proceedings for gross misconduct.”
Wonder if any of the drivers who responded to the Westminster incident or the fire crews that attended the Grenfell incident will be looked at for going through a red light, or going over the speed limit?
Or is there now any justification in perusing or driving on blues & twos if it risks gross misconduct?
#2
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (5)
Its good to see the powers that be are on the side of the emergency services:
"Officers should drive in a way which is lawful and does not contravene the laws of dangerous or careless driving.
"Officers are advised not to undertake any manoeuvre which may well fall outside the standard of the careful and competent non-police driver."
It adds: “A typical response or pursuit drive is likely to involve the officer contravening traffic signs and or speed limits. A course of driving involving contravention of traffic signs and speed limits is very likely to fall within the definition of careless or dangerous driving.
“Officers are required by law to drive to the standard of the careful and competent driver. Not the careful and competent police driver, the careful and competent (non-police) driver. This is the standard police drivers will be held to.
“There are no legal exemptions from the offences of careless or dangerous driving. Any such drives are therefore likely to be unlawful, placing the driver at risk of prosecution and proceedings for gross misconduct.”
Wonder if any of the drivers who responded to the Westminster incident or the fire crews that attended the Grenfell incident will be looked at for going through a red light, or going over the speed limit?
Or is there now any justification in perusing or driving on blues & twos if it risks gross misconduct?
"Officers should drive in a way which is lawful and does not contravene the laws of dangerous or careless driving.
"Officers are advised not to undertake any manoeuvre which may well fall outside the standard of the careful and competent non-police driver."
It adds: “A typical response or pursuit drive is likely to involve the officer contravening traffic signs and or speed limits. A course of driving involving contravention of traffic signs and speed limits is very likely to fall within the definition of careless or dangerous driving.
“Officers are required by law to drive to the standard of the careful and competent driver. Not the careful and competent police driver, the careful and competent (non-police) driver. This is the standard police drivers will be held to.
“There are no legal exemptions from the offences of careless or dangerous driving. Any such drives are therefore likely to be unlawful, placing the driver at risk of prosecution and proceedings for gross misconduct.”
Wonder if any of the drivers who responded to the Westminster incident or the fire crews that attended the Grenfell incident will be looked at for going through a red light, or going over the speed limit?
Or is there now any justification in perusing or driving on blues & twos if it risks gross misconduct?
#3
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (7)
Having been almost taken out on my motorbike by some A hole in a panda attending a bin fire and one of my school mates killed by an ambulance when I was about 8 yrs old, I think it's a little over due.
As we are constantly told "speeding kills" I don't see why that message shouldn't apply to the emergency services... at the end of the day they need to act responsibly too... and be held accountable for their actions.
Not sure what the current statistics are but a few years back, emergency services vehicles were responsible for more deaths than all the illegal drugs combined... which kind of puts things into perspective regards what society and the powers that be should be focusing their efforts on.
As usual I hold a slightly different view... awaits usual 'our hero's' bollocks from usual suspects.
As we are constantly told "speeding kills" I don't see why that message shouldn't apply to the emergency services... at the end of the day they need to act responsibly too... and be held accountable for their actions.
Not sure what the current statistics are but a few years back, emergency services vehicles were responsible for more deaths than all the illegal drugs combined... which kind of puts things into perspective regards what society and the powers that be should be focusing their efforts on.
As usual I hold a slightly different view... awaits usual 'our hero's' bollocks from usual suspects.
Last edited by ditchmyster; 05 July 2017 at 07:06 AM.
#4
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (2)
I'm in two minds on this one. FAR, far to many chases shown on the "interceptor" series on TV show the police driving to be every bit as bad as the person being chased.
And the more of those scenes are shown on TV, the more youngsters will do it, especially given the non-deterrent sentences courts are still handing out.
One one show, one of the pursuit officers admitted that a chase was what he lived for......
And yet........would I want ambulances and fire tenders held up at red lights, taffic queues etc? No, of course not.
And the more of those scenes are shown on TV, the more youngsters will do it, especially given the non-deterrent sentences courts are still handing out.
One one show, one of the pursuit officers admitted that a chase was what he lived for......
And yet........would I want ambulances and fire tenders held up at red lights, taffic queues etc? No, of course not.
#5
Scooby Regular
Not sure what the current statistics are but a few years back, emergency services vehicles were responsible for more deaths than all the illegal drugs combined... which kind of puts things into perspective regards what society and the powers that be should be focusing their efforts on.
Quick google:
Road Deaths in uk 2010: 1857
Drug Deaths in uk 2010: 2747
Doesn't sound right?
#6
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (7)
Quick google from me (ok it's Daily mail) reveals 12 crashes a day... and that's just the MET Police.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...led-years.html
My other quote was from quite a few years back when the figures for both were in the region of 1000, and Heroin being the main culprit on the drug side... of course Heroin use has increased significantly in the last 15/20yrs which is probably why there are more than two and a half times more drug related deaths.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...led-years.html
My other quote was from quite a few years back when the figures for both were in the region of 1000, and Heroin being the main culprit on the drug side... of course Heroin use has increased significantly in the last 15/20yrs which is probably why there are more than two and a half times more drug related deaths.
#7
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (7)
I'm in two minds on this one. FAR, far to many chases shown on the "interceptor" series on TV show the police driving to be every bit as bad as the person being chased.
And the more of those scenes are shown on TV, the more youngsters will do it, especially given the non-deterrent sentences courts are still handing out.
One one show, one of the pursuit officers admitted that a chase was what he lived for......
And yet........would I want ambulances and fire tenders held up at red lights, taffic queues etc? No, of course not.
And the more of those scenes are shown on TV, the more youngsters will do it, especially given the non-deterrent sentences courts are still handing out.
One one show, one of the pursuit officers admitted that a chase was what he lived for......
And yet........would I want ambulances and fire tenders held up at red lights, taffic queues etc? No, of course not.
A bit more info here... again mostly just the Police.
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...e_vehicles.pdf
Last edited by ditchmyster; 05 July 2017 at 09:15 AM.
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#10
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Quick google from me (ok it's Daily mail) reveals 12 crashes a day... and that's just the MET Police.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...led-years.html
My other quote was from quite a few years back when the figures for both were in the region of 1000, and Heroin being the main culprit on the drug side... of course Heroin use has increased significantly in the last 15/20yrs which is probably why there are more than two and a half times more drug related deaths.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...led-years.html
My other quote was from quite a few years back when the figures for both were in the region of 1000, and Heroin being the main culprit on the drug side... of course Heroin use has increased significantly in the last 15/20yrs which is probably why there are more than two and a half times more drug related deaths.
#11
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
A bit more info here... again mostly just the Police.
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...e_vehicles.pdf
I suspect that there were far more drug related deaths across all the force areas than 17
#12
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
In essence these are any response jobs - not just pursuits.
So domestics, assaults, burglaries, public order incidents, missing from homes, concerns for safety etc etc
Its basically saying that if we go through a red light on blues or go over the speed limit, it will be classed a careless/dangerous driving and may lead to gross misconduct.
So, do I just go to all emergencies now at 30mph in rush hour traffic and get there..... eventually?
Can I refuse to go to jobs on blues so I don't risk my job?
Will the public be happy at burglars and thieves making off with the loot knowing that as soon as they go through a red traffic light I won't be able to follow them.
Am I duty bound to pull over fire engines and ambulances on blue light runs if they drive through a red light?
So domestics, assaults, burglaries, public order incidents, missing from homes, concerns for safety etc etc
Its basically saying that if we go through a red light on blues or go over the speed limit, it will be classed a careless/dangerous driving and may lead to gross misconduct.
So, do I just go to all emergencies now at 30mph in rush hour traffic and get there..... eventually?
Can I refuse to go to jobs on blues so I don't risk my job?
Will the public be happy at burglars and thieves making off with the loot knowing that as soon as they go through a red traffic light I won't be able to follow them.
Am I duty bound to pull over fire engines and ambulances on blue light runs if they drive through a red light?
#14
Bring back life on Mars policing
#15
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (7)
That said there were still 17000 crashes of some sort and 1400 people 09 and 1300 2010 had some sort of injury.
AND it's still 17 dead people that didn't make it home.
As for your other post... now you're just being silly... running a red light carries a risk... that risk needs to be weighed up against the call being responded to... my personal experience tells me that some officers are not as responsible as others and like to have a bit of a hoon about the place... judging by the 17000 crashes it would seem their skill levels don't quite match their enthusiasm.
Last edited by ditchmyster; 05 July 2017 at 11:00 PM.
#16
I remember a few years ago near me a couple of police decided to hoon a confiscated Evo through a residential area and managed to roll it into a garden.
I think they just got a slap on the wrist which is a joke.
http://www.messengernewspapers.co.uk...n_Hale_garden/
I think they just got a slap on the wrist which is a joke.
http://www.messengernewspapers.co.uk...n_Hale_garden/
#17
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Yes true and I did say it was some considerable time ago.
As for your other post... now you're just being silly... running a red light carries a risk... that risk needs to be weighed up against the call being responded to... my personal experience tells me that some officers are not as responsible as others and like to have a bit of a hoon about the place... judging by the 17000 crashes it would seem their skill levels don't quite match their enthusiasm.
As for your other post... now you're just being silly... running a red light carries a risk... that risk needs to be weighed up against the call being responded to... my personal experience tells me that some officers are not as responsible as others and like to have a bit of a hoon about the place... judging by the 17000 crashes it would seem their skill levels don't quite match their enthusiasm.
Yes, of course I will want to get to an urgent domestic incident as soon a possible to prevent people getting hurt, but is it fair to risk my job in doing so by going through a red light on route?
And yes, you will always have the odd ones who 'hoon' about but these will be few and far between and usually result in having their response authorisation pulled.
Wonder how many of those 17000 crashes were judged as the fault of police? I have had 5 in my 17 year career all of which have been the fault of the other car, 3 of which deliberately rammed me.
#18
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (2)
I remember a few years ago near me a couple of police decided to hoon a confiscated Evo through a residential area and managed to roll it into a garden.
I think they just got a slap on the wrist which is a joke.
http://www.messengernewspapers.co.uk...n_Hale_garden/
I think they just got a slap on the wrist which is a joke.
http://www.messengernewspapers.co.uk...n_Hale_garden/
And there was the copper some years ago in a Vectra who was clocked at well over 100mph. When questioned, he said he was learning his new car...and magistrates let him off.
Imagine their response had a member of the public tried that?
#19
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iTrader: (7)
To be fair, those are isolated incidents... In any segment of society there's always going to be a few idiots and the Police force is no exception... I've had the displeasure of having to deal with a fair few of the idiots... but I've also dealt with some very nice ones... and most, if you doff your cap and give them the respect they crave turn out to be ok ish.
#22
Scooby Regular
Interesting.
What would you guys do if the emergency services were on the blues and were right behind you at a redlight? Would you edge past it to allow them through?
What would you guys do if the emergency services were on the blues and were right behind you at a redlight? Would you edge past it to allow them through?
#24
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"Officers should drive in a way which is lawful and does not contravene the laws of dangerous or careless driving.
"Officers are advised not to undertake any manoeuvre which may well fall outside the standard of the careful and competent non-police driver."
It adds: “A typical response or pursuit drive is likely to involve the officer contravening traffic signs and or speed limits. A course of driving involving contravention of traffic signs and speed limits is very likely to fall within the definition of careless or dangerous driving.
“Officers are required by law to drive to the standard of the careful and competent driver. Not the careful and competent police driver, the careful and competent (non-police) driver. This is the standard police drivers will be held to.
“There are no legal exemptions from the offences of careless or dangerous driving. Any such drives are therefore likely to be unlawful, placing the driver at risk of prosecution and proceedings for gross misconduct.”
"Officers are advised not to undertake any manoeuvre which may well fall outside the standard of the careful and competent non-police driver."
It adds: “A typical response or pursuit drive is likely to involve the officer contravening traffic signs and or speed limits. A course of driving involving contravention of traffic signs and speed limits is very likely to fall within the definition of careless or dangerous driving.
“Officers are required by law to drive to the standard of the careful and competent driver. Not the careful and competent police driver, the careful and competent (non-police) driver. This is the standard police drivers will be held to.
“There are no legal exemptions from the offences of careless or dangerous driving. Any such drives are therefore likely to be unlawful, placing the driver at risk of prosecution and proceedings for gross misconduct.”
Kinda puts a different slant on things, don't ya think?
mb
#26
World is PC mental. Police, ambulance, fire engines should be able to ignore every single rule in the book to save a life.
#27
The world is bloody mental
#28
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iTrader: (7)
It's like the guy chasing one sheep and loosing his flock.
All emergency service drivers need to be held accountable for their actions... just like any other segment of society... no one is above the law.
#30
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Thread Starter
And let's not worry how many they kill and maim while they're trying to save one.
It's like the guy chasing one sheep and loosing his flock.
All emergency service drivers need to be held accountable for their actions... just like any other segment of society... no one is above the law.
It's like the guy chasing one sheep and loosing his flock.
All emergency service drivers need to be held accountable for their actions... just like any other segment of society... no one is above the law.