So Brexit seems to be a good thing then.
16 November 2018, 12:09 PM
#3751
https://news.sky.com/story/live-mich...draft-11555447
Theresa May remains defiantThe prime minister finished off possibly the worst day of her premiership by comparing herself with her stubborn but effective cricketing hero.She said: "What do you know about Geoffrey Boycott? Geoffrey Boycott stuck to it and he got the runs in the end."
LOL I am fairly sure Geoffrey Boycott doesn't want everyone to know he got the runs Theresa May remains defiantThe prime minister finished off possibly the worst day of her premiership by comparing herself with her stubborn but effective cricketing hero.She said: "What do you know about Geoffrey Boycott? Geoffrey Boycott stuck to it and he got the runs in the end."
Here's hoping
16 November 2018, 01:22 PM
#3753
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16 November 2018, 04:57 PM
#3756
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Fortunately, due to the structure of the Labour party, he cannot set his own personal direction, but has to follow the instruction of the majority party which is decided at the party conference. The current official like is to remain in a customs union that also allows us to negotiate our own free trade agreements although allow freedom of movement. On the face of it, this would be something between the Norwegian and Swiss agreements, but also somewhat unlikely to be accepted by the EU. If they went for wither the Swiss or Norwegian arrangement on its own, then it would of course be a better deal than May's, although the Swiss deal would pose the same problem with the NI border.
At the last party conference though, they changed tack slightly and said in the event they don't get their preferred deal, then a peoples vote or simple no-brexit in parliament would be options.
Technically, as the referendum only asked the simple question "should we leave the EU?" and nothing about leaving the customs union or stopping freedom of movement, the Norwegian option would satisfy the referendum result by leaving the EU while also remaining in the customs union with freedom of movement. To me, if you say you have to honour the result of the referendum and you want to unite the country and you don't want to break up the union or harm the NI peace process, this is the only option that works! It would of course be a worse deal than we currently have staying in the EU, but it would honour the referendum result and respect the closeness of the result.
17 November 2018, 12:24 AM
#3757
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The overwhelming reason people voted Leave was immigration.
Those people have got want they want from this deal. That box is ticked. Freedom of movement will end.
The whole debate was based on a series of lies, callous manipulations and rabble rousing sound bites. For years people were duped by politicians who found it much easier to blame migrants, than own up to their own policy failures.
Reality will soon catch up though. That reality remains that we need millions of migrant workers to make our economy work. That is an undisputable fact, and therefore the migration issue isn't going to go away.
Notice how all the hardliners who played the immigration card during the referendum campaign, have moved on to their real agenda, which is, and always was, an ideological opposition to the EU, and bugger all to do with immigration. There will be a special place in hell for some of them!
Those people have got want they want from this deal. That box is ticked. Freedom of movement will end.
The whole debate was based on a series of lies, callous manipulations and rabble rousing sound bites. For years people were duped by politicians who found it much easier to blame migrants, than own up to their own policy failures.
Reality will soon catch up though. That reality remains that we need millions of migrant workers to make our economy work. That is an undisputable fact, and therefore the migration issue isn't going to go away.
Notice how all the hardliners who played the immigration card during the referendum campaign, have moved on to their real agenda, which is, and always was, an ideological opposition to the EU, and bugger all to do with immigration. There will be a special place in hell for some of them!
Last edited by Martin2005; 17 November 2018 at 12:41 AM.
17 November 2018, 09:18 AM
#3759
The overwhelming reason people voted Leave was immigration.
Those people have got want they want from this deal. That box is ticked. Freedom of movement will end.
The whole debate was based on a series of lies, callous manipulations and rabble rousing sound bites. For years people were duped by politicians who found it much easier to blame migrants, than own up to their own policy failures.
Those people have got want they want from this deal. That box is ticked. Freedom of movement will end.
The whole debate was based on a series of lies, callous manipulations and rabble rousing sound bites. For years people were duped by politicians who found it much easier to blame migrants, than own up to their own policy failures.
It’s still very muddy on how benefits, including school social and health care will be adopted to existing migrants as well as emigrants. Including the EHIC scheme, which you maybe aware of reports showing our NHS sends vastly more money to EU countries than it it receives, oddly including Poland where one has to ask why are health claims being done over there when they are working and living here; Obviously fraudulent EHIC cards are rife and whilst obviously it’s a policy failure and not really Brexit related, it’s something that motivates the leave contingent and something that still isn’t being dealt with.
17 November 2018, 12:04 PM
#3761
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Corbyn doesn't really express his position any more, but his anti-capitalist views would lead him in the direction of a more insular country which doesn't partake in world trade!
Fortunately, due to the structure of the Labour party, he cannot set his own personal direction, but has to follow the instruction of the majority party which is decided at the party conference. The current official like is to remain in a customs union that also allows us to negotiate our own free trade agreements although allow freedom of movement. On the face of it, this would be something between the Norwegian and Swiss agreements, but also somewhat unlikely to be accepted by the EU. If they went for wither the Swiss or Norwegian arrangement on its own, then it would of course be a better deal than May's, although the Swiss deal would pose the same problem with the NI border.
At the last party conference though, they changed tack slightly and said in the event they don't get their preferred deal, then a peoples vote or simple no-brexit in parliament would be options.
Technically, as the referendum only asked the simple question "should we leave the EU?" and nothing about leaving the customs union or stopping freedom of movement, the Norwegian option would satisfy the referendum result by leaving the EU while also remaining in the customs union with freedom of movement. To me, if you say you have to honour the result of the referendum and you want to unite the country and you don't want to break up the union or harm the NI peace process, this is the only option that works! It would of course be a worse deal than we currently have staying in the EU, but it would honour the referendum result and respect the closeness of the result.
Fortunately, due to the structure of the Labour party, he cannot set his own personal direction, but has to follow the instruction of the majority party which is decided at the party conference. The current official like is to remain in a customs union that also allows us to negotiate our own free trade agreements although allow freedom of movement. On the face of it, this would be something between the Norwegian and Swiss agreements, but also somewhat unlikely to be accepted by the EU. If they went for wither the Swiss or Norwegian arrangement on its own, then it would of course be a better deal than May's, although the Swiss deal would pose the same problem with the NI border.
At the last party conference though, they changed tack slightly and said in the event they don't get their preferred deal, then a peoples vote or simple no-brexit in parliament would be options.
Technically, as the referendum only asked the simple question "should we leave the EU?" and nothing about leaving the customs union or stopping freedom of movement, the Norwegian option would satisfy the referendum result by leaving the EU while also remaining in the customs union with freedom of movement. To me, if you say you have to honour the result of the referendum and you want to unite the country and you don't want to break up the union or harm the NI peace process, this is the only option that works! It would of course be a worse deal than we currently have staying in the EU, but it would honour the referendum result and respect the closeness of the result.
I suspect that Labour are about to come under enormous pressure to back the deal.
My guess is that the deal will probably get through the commons (although I wouldn't put much money on it).
17 November 2018, 02:06 PM
#3762
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To honour the result of the referendum, then FOM has to end, that is why Labour's position is just hogwash, and completely unachievable.
I suspect that Labour are about to come under enormous pressure to back the deal.
My guess is that the deal will probably get through the commons (although I wouldn't put much money on it).
I suspect that Labour are about to come under enormous pressure to back the deal.
My guess is that the deal will probably get through the commons (although I wouldn't put much money on it).
To honour the result of the referendum we only have to leave the EU, you can't start claiming that leaving the EU means this or that because that was never asked. Leaving the EU means leaving the EU and as Norway and Switzerland prove, you can be outside of the EU but still have freedom of movement and a customs union.
Perhaps they should have detailed what Brexit meant before asking people if they wanted it!
17 November 2018, 02:39 PM
#3763
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The referendum question didn't ask if we should end freedom of movement, It only asked leave the EU and you can do that without ending freedom of movement!
To honour the result of the referendum we only have to leave the EU, you can't start claiming that leaving the EU means this or that because that was never asked. Leaving the EU means leaving the EU and as Norway and Switzerland prove, you can be outside of the EU but still have freedom of movement and a customs union.
Perhaps they should have detailed what Brexit meant before asking people if they wanted it!
To honour the result of the referendum we only have to leave the EU, you can't start claiming that leaving the EU means this or that because that was never asked. Leaving the EU means leaving the EU and as Norway and Switzerland prove, you can be outside of the EU but still have freedom of movement and a customs union.
Perhaps they should have detailed what Brexit meant before asking people if they wanted it!
I don't think there's a deal that could include FOM.
17 November 2018, 03:07 PM
#3764
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I appreciate that, but that is not the question that the referendum asked! What people voted for and what people were asked are not necessarily the same thing. To respect the result of the referendum, we only need to leave the EU, there is technically no mandate to stop FOM or leave the customs union. Also given the referendum was an advisory referendum and was very close, respecting the advice of the people you also have to consider the 48% who wanted to remain!
17 November 2018, 03:24 PM
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I appreciate that, but that is not the question that the referendum asked! What people voted for and what people were asked are not necessarily the same thing. To respect the result of the referendum, we only need to leave the EU, there is technically no mandate to stop FOM or leave the customs union. Also given the referendum was an advisory referendum and was very close, respecting the advice of the people you also have to consider the 48% who wanted to remain!
Can honestly see that happening?
18 November 2018, 11:08 AM
#3767
Scooby Senior
What's really pissing me off lately is hearing "the end of free movement" you're taking something away from me and I'm supposed to be happy about it, **** right off.
19 November 2018, 06:49 PM
#3768
What, like no-one studied/worked/lived aboroad before the EU?
YOU f*** right off.
Still getting the lies about migration from those that either benefited or haven't been adversely affected. Get it UNDER CONTROL....OUR control, that's what we both ask...and NEED!
YOU f*** right off.
Still getting the lies about migration from those that either benefited or haven't been adversely affected. Get it UNDER CONTROL....OUR control, that's what we both ask...and NEED!
19 November 2018, 10:49 PM
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Are you having some sort of schizophrenic episode?
19 November 2018, 11:07 PM
#3771
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20 November 2018, 11:54 AM
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If be interested to know how long Leavers believe it might take for these jobs and local services to be reassigned to thier rightful owners after March
20 November 2018, 04:00 PM
#3775
21 November 2018, 08:08 PM
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Ironic that the ones that came here 15 years ago to build our economy have now had enough and leaving anyway,for booming economies back home
Now were getting out ,our workers wont have that chance
Now were getting out ,our workers wont have that chance
21 November 2018, 08:25 PM
#3777
Scooby Senior
Its even more ironic that its been British companies and workers that have been investing in their economies and creating those booms and those investment options will now be severely limited. But at least we'll have blue passports again!
22 November 2018, 07:39 AM
#3779
Ok, I understand the great uneducated and unwashed (of which there are a higher proportion than of the other in the UK) voted to leave, but we have people in power who we vote in to ensure the UK is run to our benefit...… some politicians will say "this is suicide" and resign rather than do something that is detrimental to the future of the country. Some will stay and carry it out regardless...…..It is the 2nd lot that I have issues with..... if people like May, Mogg etc do this and the country falls apart (economically or socially) then there should be some legal recourse against them if they have be shown to have "destroyed" the country for their own personal benefit. If it is shown they did this then they should be charged with a crime like treason (or something equally harsh).