Scotland - what now?
11 May 2015, 07:40 PM
#91
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Will be interesting to see if Cameron's EU in/out referendum will trigger another Scottish Independence referendum; rUK supposedly want out whilst the Scots want to remain. Maybe the electorate will save Cameron from himself and the UK also votes to stay in. Jean-Claude Juncker has already promised to work with Cameron in "striking a fair deal" for the UK in Cameron's renegotiation on the back of his election victory. But then again Brussels plans to force the UK to accept tens of thousands migrants from the Med.
That said I don't think there's a chance in hell that we would vote to leave; time will tell though.
11 May 2015, 09:20 PM
#94
Salmond has alway liked his theatrics Jeff. And the "daft bint", as you so eloquently put it fully understands the mechanics.
Cameron will have to listen. Of course he can steamroller what he wants (assuming back bench support) but does he really want to alienate Scotland to that degree?
Cameron will have to listen. Of course he can steamroller what he wants (assuming back bench support) but does he really want to alienate Scotland to that degree?
Maybe...just maybe...this all might come back to bite you Jocks.
11 May 2015, 10:26 PM
#96
YouGov poll shows that the UK are still in favour of staying within the EU, but then again, the polls indicated a hung parliament for this election rather than an outright (narrow) majority for the Conservatives. I guess a lot will depend on the terms of the renegotiation that Cameron has in plan, hopefull, those will be laid out before the referendum. As with the Scottish referendum, a lot can happen between now and the EU referendum.
12 May 2015, 08:46 AM
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Listening to the analysis this morning Juncker says he is happy to talk to Cameron, but that there will be no negotiation on the freedom of movement within the EU and Cameron says his priority is to change the freedom of movement within the EU in respect to the UK. I see trouble ahead ... great stuff 
12 May 2015, 09:50 AM
#98
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I appreciate you struggle to have a civilised conversation coming form Scunthorpe, but I can't help but detect a little disdain in your tone which is wholly unecessary here.
Please understand that contrary to certain sectors of the media and UKIP's preachings we Scots collectively don't hate the English. What we do, however, is love our country and its culture. And we are quite defensive of that. Admittedly over defensive at times.
56 SNP seats is not two fingers to England. Its a big group hug for Scotland. And that's something that the fearmongers in the English media can never get their heads around so I'm hoping that you now can.
You asked "what's to lose"
Well, in real terms there's Scotlands contribution to GDP. And as I've posted earlier (if you had read it?) the GVA per capita of Scotland which is higher than of the UK average excluding tax revenues from oil and higher than all but the city of london including those tax revenues from oil (irrespective of the oil price drop)
So without Scotland, the City of London would have to subsidise YOU (and most of the rest of England and all of Wales) more than it does now.
I'm sure there are many other losses here, after all why were Cameron, Milleband and Clegg so desperate to keep Scotland part of the union, because I don't buy the "history" line.
Last edited by Devildog; 12 May 2015 at 11:30 AM.
12 May 2015, 11:20 AM
#99
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We may be geographically smaller and have a much lower population, however Scotland's gross value added per person (excluding oil revenues) is over £1,000 higher than than the UK average and would be significantly higher than that of England and the rest of the UK when those revenues are included.
Like most statistics, I imagine you can cut it any way you want. Obviously the oil revenue makes a difference to the figure by quite some margin, but Nort Sea oil is taking a bit of a hammering at the mo with the low price of oil.
It would be interesting to see how hard Whitehall would fight to retain the Union if the new oil fields found in England are as promising as they seem.
Last edited by Geezer; 12 May 2015 at 11:21 AM.
12 May 2015, 11:30 AM
#100
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According to this, excluding oil revenues, Scotland is £2k a year worse.
Like most statistics, I imagine you can cut it any way you want. Obviously the oil revenue makes a difference to the figure by quite some margin, but Nort Sea oil is taking a bit of a hammering at the mo with the low price of oil.
It would be interesting to see how hard Whitehall would fight to retain the Union if the new oil fields found in England are as promising as they seem.
Like most statistics, I imagine you can cut it any way you want. Obviously the oil revenue makes a difference to the figure by quite some margin, but Nort Sea oil is taking a bit of a hammering at the mo with the low price of oil.
It would be interesting to see how hard Whitehall would fight to retain the Union if the new oil fields found in England are as promising as they seem.
Last edited by Devildog; 12 May 2015 at 11:47 AM.
12 May 2015, 12:35 PM
#101
Jeff
I appreciate you struggle to have a civilised conversation coming form Scunthorpe, but I can't help but detect a little disdain in your tone which is wholly unecessary here.
Please understand that contrary to certain sectors of the media and UKIP's preachings we Scots collectively don't hate the English. What we do, however, is love our country and its culture. And we are quite defensive of that. Admittedly over defensive at times.
56 SNP seats is not two fingers to England. Its a big group hug for Scotland. And that's something that the fearmongers in the English media can never get their heads around so I'm hoping that you now can.
You asked "what's to lose"
Well, in real terms there's Scotlands contribution to GDP. And as I've posted earlier (if you had read it?) the GVA per capita of Scotland which is higher than of the UK average excluding tax revenues from oil and higher than all but the city of london including those tax revenues from oil (irrespective of the oil price drop)
So without Scotland, the City of London would have to subsidise YOU (and most of the rest of England and all of Wales) more than it does now.
I'm sure there are many other losses here, after all why were Cameron, Milleband and Clegg so desperate to keep Scotland part of the union, because I don't buy the "history" line.
I appreciate you struggle to have a civilised conversation coming form Scunthorpe, but I can't help but detect a little disdain in your tone which is wholly unecessary here.
Please understand that contrary to certain sectors of the media and UKIP's preachings we Scots collectively don't hate the English. What we do, however, is love our country and its culture. And we are quite defensive of that. Admittedly over defensive at times.
56 SNP seats is not two fingers to England. Its a big group hug for Scotland. And that's something that the fearmongers in the English media can never get their heads around so I'm hoping that you now can.
You asked "what's to lose"
Well, in real terms there's Scotlands contribution to GDP. And as I've posted earlier (if you had read it?) the GVA per capita of Scotland which is higher than of the UK average excluding tax revenues from oil and higher than all but the city of london including those tax revenues from oil (irrespective of the oil price drop)
So without Scotland, the City of London would have to subsidise YOU (and most of the rest of England and all of Wales) more than it does now.
I'm sure there are many other losses here, after all why were Cameron, Milleband and Clegg so desperate to keep Scotland part of the union, because I don't buy the "history" line.
12 May 2015, 12:45 PM
#102
So what? The England average is £24,091, which means in reality all Scotland is doing is helping out in a limited way to subsidize the far lower averages in Northern-Ireland and Wales. Would anyone really notice much if it stopped? I don't think so.
12 May 2015, 12:56 PM
#103
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You really need to start understanding that for the vast majority of Scottish Nationalists, independence isn't about hating England, Wales or Northern Ireland. It's about believing that an independent Scotland can do a better job of running its affairs than Westminster can.
Perhaps you should stop reading the propaganda that is the Telegraph and have a graeter understanding of reality before spouting forth?
12 May 2015, 01:03 PM
#106
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So using your own assertion, Scotland is also helping subsidise most of England too.
In a limited way or not, ist still a positive contribution.
I was invited to explain why I hold a certain position in all this - which I did. What's you problem with it anyway? (Apart from an unhealthy dose of paranoia and a clear inability to think for yourself)
12 May 2015, 01:08 PM
#107
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12 May 2015, 01:12 PM
#108
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12 May 2015, 01:13 PM
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Right let's try this again.
You state that 55.3% voted against independence and therefore I am claiming that 55.3% (2,001,926) were bribed which is not 'a few'.
The problem for you is that is not what I am claiming.
Anything more than 50% would have seen the referendum go the other way meaning that if 2.7% had voted the other way the referendum would have been in favour of a Yes.
Hence my assertion that a few were bribed by promises of more devolved powers etc. from the Three Amigos (Camo, Miliband and Clegg).
2.7% = 98K out of a population of nearly 4.3million eligible to vote = A FEW
Now apologise you ignorant thick ****!
12 May 2015, 01:18 PM
#110
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Look at the numbers. England's average is massively skewed by the City of London. Scotland's average is higher than most of England.
So using your own assertion, Scotland is also helping subsidise most of England too.
In a limited way or not, ist still a positive contribution.
I was invited to explain why I hold a certain position in all this - which I did. What's you problem with it anyway? (Apart from an unhealthy dose of paranoia and a clear inability to think for yourself)
So using your own assertion, Scotland is also helping subsidise most of England too.
In a limited way or not, ist still a positive contribution.
I was invited to explain why I hold a certain position in all this - which I did. What's you problem with it anyway? (Apart from an unhealthy dose of paranoia and a clear inability to think for yourself)
You can't put monetary value on beauty........
12 May 2015, 01:30 PM
#111
Apologise for what? For you being a ****? Nah.
Read again what you said -
The MAJORITY didn't want to leave. It's not a few. Unless you mean all those who voted to remain in the Union were bribed 
Dick!
Come on, I'm a Scot, I'm bent over, where's your nose
Read again what you said -
Dick!
Come on, I'm a Scot, I'm bent over, where's your nose
12 May 2015, 01:39 PM
#112
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Genuinely serious comment btw, not banter, but I really didn't think anyone could be as stupid as you and be able to use a computer.
You can call me all the names you want, but it won't change the fact you are one utter cretin who is unable to understand basic English and mathematics.
12 May 2015, 02:34 PM
#113
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Look at it another way. 45% wanted independence. Had 5.1% more voted "Yes" its a "Yes" majority. Its that 5.1% that are key. Sway that 5.1% to "No" and boom, you have a "No" majority.
Taking the bribe point, all the better together campaign had to do was sway no more than that 5.1%. Not sway 2,001,926, many of whom will have been no irrespective of the fearmongering.
12 May 2015, 05:07 PM
#115
You asked "what's to lose"
Well, in real terms there's Scotlands contribution to GDP. And as I've posted earlier (if you had read it?) the GVA per capita of Scotland which is higher than of the UK average excluding tax revenues from oil and higher than all but the city of london including those tax revenues from oil (irrespective of the oil price drop)
Well, in real terms there's Scotlands contribution to GDP. And as I've posted earlier (if you had read it?) the GVA per capita of Scotland which is higher than of the UK average excluding tax revenues from oil and higher than all but the city of london including those tax revenues from oil (irrespective of the oil price drop)
They'll up and leave? Aye, right....as you lot would say.
Milliband MIGHT have foreseen the debacle that has now come about for Liebour up there and tried to win votes. Clegg...well he's too thick to have seen owt. I wish the people of Sheffield Hallam had got rid.But as for Cam-Moron, you ARE aware that he's the leader of the Conservative AND UNIONIST Party, are you not?
Seriously, now, I have nowt against 99.99% of you Scots, (or Welsh, or Norn Irish), it just p1sses me off big time to be labelled racist for loving MY country, England and wanting to honour MY flag...then get labelled racist.
Yet you lot do it for your countries, flags and saints and that's GOOD!
Not your fault, I know, but........
12 May 2015, 05:44 PM
#116
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You really need to start understanding that for the vast majority of Scottish Nationalists, independence isn't about hating England, Wales or Northern Ireland. It's about believing that an independent Scotland can do a better job of running its affairs than Westminster can.
Perhaps you should stop reading the propaganda that is the Telegraph and have a graeter understanding of reality before spouting forth?
12 May 2015, 06:51 PM
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12 May 2015, 08:03 PM
#118
You really need to start understanding that for the vast majority of Scottish Nationalists, independence isn't about hating England, Wales or Northern Ireland. It's about believing that an independent Scotland can do a better job of running its affairs than Westminster can.
Perhaps you should stop reading the propaganda that is the Telegraph and have a graeter understanding of reality before spouting forth?
12 May 2015, 08:11 PM
#119
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