This government and its welfare cuts! A sad tale!
27 December 2014, 05:22 PM
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This government and its welfare cuts! A sad tale!
I have long had a suspicion that Ian Duncan Smith and his welfare cuts are anything but fair.
I keep hearing of people having their benefits cut for seemingly no good reason and them having to fight via the CAB/courts to try and get them reinstated. The CAB I believe have months of appointments set up for people in this position.
Recently a friend of mine's son had his benefits refused as he had not been a resident of the UK for 18 months despite the fact the only reason he was here was down to him being extradited back here on fraud charges (which recently were all dropped by our beloved HMRC .... they got the wrong person apparently, messed his entire life up, but there you go
).
Anyway despite all tis I was yet to hear first hand of someone being treated like this so I suppose deep down I was giving the government the benefit of the doubt and I do know cuts need to be made.
This morning however I spoke with a girl who is the niece of a neighbour. She has just turned 18 and has had a large proportion of her benefits removed as she has been classed as able to work. She has appealed and once again been turned down as she is 'able to work'.
Now this would be OK if she wasn't paralysed from the chest down, in a wheelchair and not able to use the toilet by herself.
She still gets some disability benefit, but everything else including a carer's allowance is currently on stop!
It has to be a mistake, but even so ... wtf?????
She has a solicitor on the case who says this is not that uncommon at the moment. It's almost as if the government have told the DWP to save every penny they can and worry about the appeals etc. later (her words not mine).
It boils my p1ss that this can be happening!!!! Carry on voting Tory though won't you?
I keep hearing of people having their benefits cut for seemingly no good reason and them having to fight via the CAB/courts to try and get them reinstated. The CAB I believe have months of appointments set up for people in this position.
Recently a friend of mine's son had his benefits refused as he had not been a resident of the UK for 18 months despite the fact the only reason he was here was down to him being extradited back here on fraud charges (which recently were all dropped by our beloved HMRC .... they got the wrong person apparently, messed his entire life up, but there you go
).Anyway despite all tis I was yet to hear first hand of someone being treated like this so I suppose deep down I was giving the government the benefit of the doubt and I do know cuts need to be made.
This morning however I spoke with a girl who is the niece of a neighbour. She has just turned 18 and has had a large proportion of her benefits removed as she has been classed as able to work. She has appealed and once again been turned down as she is 'able to work'.
Now this would be OK if she wasn't paralysed from the chest down, in a wheelchair and not able to use the toilet by herself.
She still gets some disability benefit, but everything else including a carer's allowance is currently on stop!
It has to be a mistake, but even so ... wtf?????
She has a solicitor on the case who says this is not that uncommon at the moment. It's almost as if the government have told the DWP to save every penny they can and worry about the appeals etc. later (her words not mine).
It boils my p1ss that this can be happening!!!! Carry on voting Tory though won't you?
27 December 2014, 05:26 PM
#2
Its okay, alot of the DWP staff will be laid off soon too, longer hours, less money and less staff
I work for the DWP (not anything benefit or government related though)
I work for the DWP (not anything benefit or government related though)
27 December 2014, 06:22 PM
#3
It's a worrying situation when a french owned multi national conglomerate operating on a commission basis, is given the task of assessing disability claims. ATOS have passed terminally ill cancer sufferers as fit for work amongst many others.
They use cheap tricks, bullying and lies when assessing people. They work on a commission basis so will try every trick in the book to pass people fit for work.
They use cheap tricks, bullying and lies when assessing people. They work on a commission basis so will try every trick in the book to pass people fit for work.
27 December 2014, 08:15 PM
#6
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It's a worrying situation when a french owned multi national conglomerate operating on a commission basis, is given the task of assessing disability claims. ATOS have passed terminally ill cancer sufferers as fit for work amongst many others.
They use cheap tricks, bullying and lies when assessing people. They work on a commission basis so will try every trick in the book to pass people fit for work.
They use cheap tricks, bullying and lies when assessing people. They work on a commission basis so will try every trick in the book to pass people fit for work.
But I think ATOS have bailed out of that contract though
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27 December 2014, 09:37 PM
#8
ATOS were one of the sponsors of the London Paralympics. The participating athletes some of whom were on certain disability benefits were shocked to discover their benefit entitlement revoked post the games. When they enquired as to why they were told if they could participate in the games they were fit to work.
The irony of it was these same athletes were asked to boycott the games by some disability claimants, who had been ill treated by ATOS. They (the athletes) refused and experienced first hand the tactics of ATOS.
27 December 2014, 11:47 PM
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Chris as you say, it was probably a mistake.
There may well be welfare cuts but my first hand experiences (being disabled myself ) are that people are being very well looked after and some (my next door neighbour +1 and my old neighbour) are taking the pìss.
The biggest problems with welfare at the moment is not how much people get (which is generous) it's the system not being able to cope.
For example, i know of people having their moneys stopped because their phone number has changed and when they have informed the correct people the system sees a change and stops the money leaving people skint.
Having a pay increase is another way of getting your moneys stopped, the system sees you have had a change and automatically stops your money until someone is able to investigate which can take months.
The money is being given it's just when and how which is the problem.
There may well be welfare cuts but my first hand experiences (being disabled myself ) are that people are being very well looked after and some (my next door neighbour +1 and my old neighbour) are taking the pìss.
The biggest problems with welfare at the moment is not how much people get (which is generous) it's the system not being able to cope.
For example, i know of people having their moneys stopped because their phone number has changed and when they have informed the correct people the system sees a change and stops the money leaving people skint.
Having a pay increase is another way of getting your moneys stopped, the system sees you have had a change and automatically stops your money until someone is able to investigate which can take months.
The money is being given it's just when and how which is the problem.
28 December 2014, 12:01 AM
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Chris as you say, it was probably a mistake.
There may well be welfare cuts but my first hand experiences (being disabled myself ) are that people are being very well looked after and some (my next door neighbour +1 and my old neighbour) are taking the pìss.
The biggest problems with welfare at the moment is not how much people get (which is generous) it's the system not being able to cope.
For example, i know of people having their moneys stopped because their phone number has changed and when they have informed the correct people the system sees a change and stops the money leaving people skint.
Having a pay increase is another way of getting your moneys stopped, the system sees you have had a change and automatically stops your money until someone is able to investigate which can take months.
The money is being given it's just when and how which is the problem.
There may well be welfare cuts but my first hand experiences (being disabled myself ) are that people are being very well looked after and some (my next door neighbour +1 and my old neighbour) are taking the pìss.
The biggest problems with welfare at the moment is not how much people get (which is generous) it's the system not being able to cope.
For example, i know of people having their moneys stopped because their phone number has changed and when they have informed the correct people the system sees a change and stops the money leaving people skint.
Having a pay increase is another way of getting your moneys stopped, the system sees you have had a change and automatically stops your money until someone is able to investigate which can take months.
The money is being given it's just when and how which is the problem.
Either way it's down to the government and I for one am sick of listening to their lying BS about everything from the economy to terrorist threats.
I am also heartily sick of smug so and sos on forums telling me how absolutely great everything is under their stewardship! That is not aimed at you btw!
28 December 2014, 12:09 AM
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Sorry, but my neighbour's niece is not being very well looked after. Nor are countless others who are having their benefit stopped for no good reason. Maybe it is indeed system problems, but maybe it is something more sinister.
Either way it's down to the government and I for one am sick of listening to their lying BS about everything from the economy to terrorist threats.
I am also heartily sick of smug so and sos on forums telling me how absolutely great everything is under their stewardship! That is not aimed at you btw!
Either way it's down to the government and I for one am sick of listening to their lying BS about everything from the economy to terrorist threats.
I am also heartily sick of smug so and sos on forums telling me how absolutely great everything is under their stewardship! That is not aimed at you btw!
My point is that when it's working people are being well looked after and get a fair amount of money. The problem is that it often doesn't work very well and people are found waiting for money for the most stupid of reasons.
28 December 2014, 12:30 AM
#12
Seems to be the assessors seem to be ex CSA staff that ruined many lives
Another crazy govy organisation that should be revampted
I'm sure a new computer system for 500 million will sort it out
Hopefully Cameron and his puppet clegg will be kicked out in may
Another crazy govy organisation that should be revampted
I'm sure a new computer system for 500 million will sort it out
Hopefully Cameron and his puppet clegg will be kicked out in may
28 December 2014, 12:34 AM
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If it seemed as if i was defending them that wasn't my intention.
My point is that when it's working people are being well looked after and get a fair amount of money. The problem is that it often doesn't work very well and people are found waiting for money for the most stupid of reasons.
My point is that when it's working people are being well looked after and get a fair amount of money. The problem is that it often doesn't work very well and people are found waiting for money for the most stupid of reasons.
28 December 2014, 06:53 AM
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28 December 2014, 10:55 AM
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This is the fall out from too many abusing the system, getting something that they do not deserve causing the genuine to suffer, combined with people running the system (on rather nice salaries and pension plans, I may add) not doing there job properly . It should have never been allowed to get to this state.
There's lots of issues here, we have government at the top say cut cut cut, private contractors trying to hit dreamed up targets that are unrealistic, and public sector welfare departments and councils that are both in inept and constructively undermining the government due there excessive left wing ideologies, in turn making the goverment hit them harder, which doesn't work as the top brass and managers in each department just makes the ground staff redundant.
The warning signs were there, the were there at the end of the 1990s (borrowing figures as one example), and now genuine people are suffering for it.
There's lots of issues here, we have government at the top say cut cut cut, private contractors trying to hit dreamed up targets that are unrealistic, and public sector welfare departments and councils that are both in inept and constructively undermining the government due there excessive left wing ideologies, in turn making the goverment hit them harder, which doesn't work as the top brass and managers in each department just makes the ground staff redundant.
The warning signs were there, the were there at the end of the 1990s (borrowing figures as one example), and now genuine people are suffering for it.
Last edited by ALi-B; 28 December 2014 at 10:59 AM.
28 December 2014, 11:24 AM
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This is the fall out from too many abusing the system, getting something that they do not deserve causing the genuine to suffer, combined with people running the system (on rather nice salaries and pension plans, I may add) not doing there job properly . It should have never been allowed to get to this state.
There's lots of issues here, we have government at the top say cut cut cut, private contractors trying to hit dreamed up targets that are unrealistic, and public sector welfare departments and councils that are both in inept and constructively undermining the government due there excessive left wing ideologies, in turn making the goverment hit them harder, which doesn't work as the top brass and managers in each department just makes the ground staff redundant.
The warning signs were there, the were there at the end of the 1990s (borrowing figures as one example), and now genuine people are suffering for it.
There's lots of issues here, we have government at the top say cut cut cut, private contractors trying to hit dreamed up targets that are unrealistic, and public sector welfare departments and councils that are both in inept and constructively undermining the government due there excessive left wing ideologies, in turn making the goverment hit them harder, which doesn't work as the top brass and managers in each department just makes the ground staff redundant.
The warning signs were there, the were there at the end of the 1990s (borrowing figures as one example), and now genuine people are suffering for it.
28 December 2014, 11:35 AM
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Not a great situation, but unfortunately the real problem is that much more, and much much deeper cuts will have to be made.
The UK is living vastly beyond it's means - £1.7 trillion debt, additional borrowing of over £100billion a year every year, and looking forward we've got an aging population so that's more claiming government pensions, more using the NHS for expensive care and less income from workers to pay for it - it clearly doesn't add up. We need to make massive savings, which is why getting out of the EU and saving bilions is a good start.
It is frustrating to see money being spent on stupid stuff, when those genuinely in need are suffering though.
The UK is living vastly beyond it's means - £1.7 trillion debt, additional borrowing of over £100billion a year every year, and looking forward we've got an aging population so that's more claiming government pensions, more using the NHS for expensive care and less income from workers to pay for it - it clearly doesn't add up. We need to make massive savings, which is why getting out of the EU and saving bilions is a good start.
It is frustrating to see money being spent on stupid stuff, when those genuinely in need are suffering though.
28 December 2014, 11:46 AM
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haha...Thats just as naive though
Do you really think itll save the uk Petem
whats needed is to trade with the rest of the world, eu in/out is a sideshow.
Way i see it, weve had it "good" for a long time and now our standard living is inevitably going to be squeezed
Do you really think itll save the uk Petem
whats needed is to trade with the rest of the world, eu in/out is a sideshow.
Way i see it, weve had it "good" for a long time and now our standard living is inevitably going to be squeezed
Last edited by dpb; 28 December 2014 at 11:51 AM.
28 December 2014, 12:01 PM
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Of course we need to export more and import less, but how can we be competitive in a global market if we have such high manufacturing costs due to all the overhead and red-tape on businesses and relatively high wages to employees?
28 December 2014, 12:08 PM
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I agree the EU is part of our problem, but I fear it's too late already. The amount of debt is eventually going to topple us, it's just a question of when.
The other issue is we have had a sequence of lying self serving governments since the 80s that have no genuine interest in the good of the country. Cameron and his cronies are just another group of those albeit worse than most.
However, all that being said there is still no excuse for some for the things that are going on such as the situation in my opening post, it's just basic common sense and common decency that is missing from the authorities in cases like this and I suspect it is more than just a 'mistake'...... I just hope karma does its thing on the the people responsible!
The other issue is we have had a sequence of lying self serving governments since the 80s that have no genuine interest in the good of the country. Cameron and his cronies are just another group of those albeit worse than most.
However, all that being said there is still no excuse for some for the things that are going on such as the situation in my opening post, it's just basic common sense and common decency that is missing from the authorities in cases like this and I suspect it is more than just a 'mistake'...... I just hope karma does its thing on the the people responsible!
28 December 2014, 12:15 PM
#22
One of the major problems with the system as is is the lack of joined up thinking.
It's fine to say to someone that they are fit for work.....but what if there's no suitable work?
To then say, "Not our problem, go find some", as they are allowed to do, is unsatisfactory.
FAR better to say, "We think you can do THIS job, go and try it please....", then re-evaluate later.
But that would be far to adult......
It's fine to say to someone that they are fit for work.....but what if there's no suitable work?
To then say, "Not our problem, go find some", as they are allowed to do, is unsatisfactory.
FAR better to say, "We think you can do THIS job, go and try it please....", then re-evaluate later.
But that would be far to adult......
28 December 2014, 02:07 PM
#23
I don't think that alone will save the UK, it'll take far more cutbacks, but it's a good start - cutting something that'll save a massive amount of money for services we don't need. EU in/out is not just a sideshow at all.
Of course we need to export more and import less, but how can we be competitive in a global market if we have such high manufacturing costs due to all the overhead and red-tape on businesses and relatively high wages to employees?
Of course we need to export more and import less, but how can we be competitive in a global market if we have such high manufacturing costs due to all the overhead and red-tape on businesses and relatively high wages to employees?
Our remote chances of being an expanding export economy was quashed in the 1990's when what was left of our industries was forced into either moving overseas to remain competitive, close, or be be bought out by an asset stripper.
Time and time again we've seen big British names move, disappear or taken over, only then to be stripped of its valuable assets and then discarded.
This is, of course ignoring our financial sector. Which only fell foul of its own greed and took advantage of our inept government's short sighted regulation....admitted by Brown "the savior of the world economy" that was in charge at the time and could have done something about it a decade BEFORE it happened.
The latter of which is what we are all paying for now...because we have no other major industry big enough step in and help cover the shortfall.
Last edited by ALi-B; 28 December 2014 at 02:11 PM.
30 December 2014, 09:09 AM
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I really do fear for British Politics. How can we be in a position where we have no clear majority leader? Because they have been proven to be lying , cheating, two faced toffs, that's why!
May be the attraction just isn't there for anyone to take up the reigns of either main party and drag it into the 21st century.
And what bugs me the most is when any and I do mean 'any' politician is asked a direct question on a political program, they dance around the answer. It makes my blood boil. They are asking for our vote and don't even have the decency to be honest.
I'd have far more respect for the party that said, 'look, we don't know how bad things really are until we get into power, but we have a good idea and this is how we are going to implement our plan.'
All we usually get is ' as we have clearly said already, there will be some tough choices.' Yes I f%cking know that but I want to know what your priorities are.
And the lying cheating *******s of the last few decades should have been banged up by now. Not retired on a huge pension.
I'm with you Chris, I truely hate our current political system and lack of credible options.
May be the attraction just isn't there for anyone to take up the reigns of either main party and drag it into the 21st century.
And what bugs me the most is when any and I do mean 'any' politician is asked a direct question on a political program, they dance around the answer. It makes my blood boil. They are asking for our vote and don't even have the decency to be honest.
I'd have far more respect for the party that said, 'look, we don't know how bad things really are until we get into power, but we have a good idea and this is how we are going to implement our plan.'
All we usually get is ' as we have clearly said already, there will be some tough choices.' Yes I f%cking know that but I want to know what your priorities are.
And the lying cheating *******s of the last few decades should have been banged up by now. Not retired on a huge pension.
I'm with you Chris, I truely hate our current political system and lack of credible options.
Last edited by Gear Head; 30 December 2014 at 09:10 AM.
31 December 2014, 10:47 AM
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All governments are unpopular, all people in power are questionable to a certain degree, why seek power? However, that does not mean they do not try to run the country for their own means.
Running a country is not an easy thing to do. They make mistakes. Some are really bad, it has to be said, but on the whole, they are making the best of a very difficult job.
Then you have to factor in the popular vote. It exacerbates the problem. No one is willing to make truly necessary policies as they are unpopular. The UK public moans about anything they don't like, but also moan about the state of the country etc etc. The two are mutually exclusive.
Alas, I fear that to really address the woes of the UK, measure are needed which the UK population would simply not put up with, ironically.
I also genuinely believe that our obsession with more for less is what has made the UK a desert for manufacturing and has lead to alot of our issues.
Sometimes you just have to pay (both in taxes and prices).
Running a country is not an easy thing to do. They make mistakes. Some are really bad, it has to be said, but on the whole, they are making the best of a very difficult job.
Then you have to factor in the popular vote. It exacerbates the problem. No one is willing to make truly necessary policies as they are unpopular. The UK public moans about anything they don't like, but also moan about the state of the country etc etc. The two are mutually exclusive.
Alas, I fear that to really address the woes of the UK, measure are needed which the UK population would simply not put up with, ironically.
I also genuinely believe that our obsession with more for less is what has made the UK a desert for manufacturing and has lead to alot of our issues.
Sometimes you just have to pay (both in taxes and prices).
31 December 2014, 11:57 AM
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All governments are unpopular, all people in power are questionable to a certain degree, why seek power? However, that does not mean they do not try to run the country for their own means.
Running a country is not an easy thing to do. They make mistakes. Some are really bad, it has to be said, but on the whole, they are making the best of a very difficult job.
Then you have to factor in the popular vote. It exacerbates the problem. No one is willing to make truly necessary policies as they are unpopular. The UK public moans about anything they don't like, but also moan about the state of the country etc etc. The two are mutually exclusive.
Alas, I fear that to really address the woes of the UK, measure are needed which the UK population would simply not put up with, ironically.
I also genuinely believe that our obsession with more for less is what has made the UK a desert for manufacturing and has lead to alot of our issues.
Sometimes you just have to pay (both in taxes and prices).
Running a country is not an easy thing to do. They make mistakes. Some are really bad, it has to be said, but on the whole, they are making the best of a very difficult job.
Then you have to factor in the popular vote. It exacerbates the problem. No one is willing to make truly necessary policies as they are unpopular. The UK public moans about anything they don't like, but also moan about the state of the country etc etc. The two are mutually exclusive.
Alas, I fear that to really address the woes of the UK, measure are needed which the UK population would simply not put up with, ironically.
I also genuinely believe that our obsession with more for less is what has made the UK a desert for manufacturing and has lead to alot of our issues.
Sometimes you just have to pay (both in taxes and prices).
31 December 2014, 12:50 PM
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However, he did a lot of good for Italy in his domestic policy. He also rid Italy of the Mafia. I have no doubt he did very well out of his time in power (well, up until the point where he was ousted and ultimately murdered), and it is an extreme example, but you can serve your country and yourself.
The issue with people in power is that they always end up abusing it. Sad, but true. Behind each party, there is a huge machine, running the country. Each successive government is pretty much the same, and they have to be, there is no magic bullet to running the place.
Until the UK public is willing to accept some very tough decisions, nothing is going to change. Anyone who gets in power other than the Tories or Labour will discover that too.
31 December 2014, 01:47 PM
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Politics in the UK has hit an all time low, Who is there to actually vote for outside of UKIP?