f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

I see we have raised our terror threat level to severe in light of IS.... not sure why we are any more or less under threat than last week, but there you go.

Or does our government have some new controlling laws it wants to push through? Probably given their past performance!

They even wheeled Teflon May out after she has virtually been in hiding since the Rotherham child abuse report so it must be something significant they want to get through.

The biggest laugh is Cameron tried to take us into Syria to support the rebels against Assad, now it is those rebels who have morphed into IS and now we are talking about siding with Assad.... you couldn't make it up!

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Politician: those with little spine and will bend with the wind...or towards wherever the money is.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

It's a convenient ruse to brush not only the Rotherham incident but the indiscretions of past members of the cabinet under the carpet too.

Boro

iTrader: (1)

Whatever they are saying, whatever the reasons they say they are doing it for, you can guarantee it's for a completely different reason.

I love the way the media report headlines and a week later some new law comes out in relation to said headlines. They must think we're all thick!

zip106

I'm going to dig out my winter balaclava and start wearing it.
Should raise a giggle.

Mouser

Even the OP with his blinkered views can surely appreciate terror threats can change from day to day never mind week to week and Cameron is reacting accordingly, would you have him do nothing?
Also, I think you'll find the rebels haven't "morphed" into IS, they are seperate groups and are fighting each other.

The Rotherham abuse scandal started long before the Tories came to power btw, just saying.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Reacting to what exactly?

Ah so we were going to select exactly which rebels we supported were we? Give them an 'Are you and extremist? Take this easy online test' questionnaire to fill in before issuing them with a weapon?

But the report was published last week

stipete75

There is no terror threat! Simples.
The only terrorists you need worry about are the US government and our very own UK government, the greatest terrorists planet earth has ever seen.

99% of what you read and hear about Isis, Gaza,Ukraine,Russia,7/7, foley etc etc etc is fabricated by our very own government. Reasons...........more power more control.

Mouser

O.K. I'll reply as the Everton v Chelsea match is now over. Cracking game btw with teammates working together for the good of the club not like the MB F1 team trying to screw each other over for personal gain.

Reacting to information from MI5 among others probably.

Confused you didn't it? You thought they were one and the same.

Who is to say if the anti al-Assad rebels had been armed at the beginning the IS situation would not have occurred later? We will never know.


Yes with the abuse starting in 1997. What is your point?

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Ah yes football. A sport with racism and sexism running through its core. All that with Malky whatever his name is sending racist and sexists texts and then the 'Kick racism out of football' campaign trying to play it down and say its not endemic to the game until the TV interviewer pointed out the very fact the sport has a 'Kick racism out of football' campaign is an indicator enough and no other sport needs one... the thick ***** didn't know what to say then

Or completely making it up to deflect attention from other things probably

Nope, they were part of the rebels Cameron wanted to help as per my original point. It is you who seem confused!

Oh I think we do know... the whole thing was discussed at the time, the fact we didn't know who half these rebels were and which ones sided with Al Qaeda and the likes was one of the reasons the vote went against him

The point (not made by me btw) was that this terror threat thing was being made to help bury the backlash from the Rotherham report. It was published last week, the fact the scandal started before the Tories got appointed to government is utterly and completely irrelevant to the point made.

Mouser

Should've interviewed Gunner fan Lewis Hamilton for a more balanced argument. You of all people know what these journalists are like and how they can discombobulate things.

Or he could have withheld the warning until it was too late and give you an excellent opening for a new thread.

You said the rebels "morphed" into each other. Either you don't know the meaning of the word or the fact they are seperate groups or both.

I never said you did but why mention the Rotherham report?

Why mention Rotherham then?


I see stipete75 agrees with you!

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Sorry I don't follow. Are you saying racism is not endemic in football? As stated if so why is there a 'kick racism out of football' campaign? Just for a bit of a good crack I guess

Warning about what? There is nothing of substance being presented. It's bollox and deep down you know it! You're not stupid no matter how good an impression you do on here.

I meant morphed as in the situation, but you're right the wording was bad... if you want to be a pedant (and I should know about that ). At the end of the day some of the people,Cameron wanted to support are now committing atrocities in northern Iraq or do you dispute that?

I didn't except to say Teflon May had appeared having virtually hidden since its publication by way of saying they must be trying to add gravitas to the terrorist threat message.

As do several others

Mouser

Trying to reply to this whilst watching Match of the Day, apologies for any typos!

You obviously have a very low opinion of football supporters, I was directing you towards a person you admire who is a football supporter. There are a lot of people like Lewis Hamilton out there, maybe not as good at driving though!. I have been to many matches over the years and yes there are the problems you alluded to but it is a very small minority who unfortunately get the headlines for the wrong reasons. Damn journalists! Get the blinkers off!

Thanks for the backhanded compliment! : The terror warning has gone from substantial to severe and there are other steps planned, but I'm sure you already knew that.

You are many things but pedanticism is one of your better traits. I was going to point out your typo in your first post but you changed it, well spotted! As far as atrocities in northern Iraq are concerned, show me a war zone where this hasn't happened.

Now who's acting stoopid!

Unfortunately noone of consequence.

jonc

That is no great endorsement!

Could there be a slight possibility that those in the Cabinet base their decisions on intelligence gathered by the intelligence service that the general public are not privy to? Could it be that the heightened alert is the result of British citizens travelling to the Middle East to fight with terrorist and perform executions of western hostages with the possibility of them returning and inflicting terrorist acts on British soil? Could this not simply be a genuine reason for upping the threat alert or are you saying, along with stipete75, they've been made up to push through a new law like you suggested? And what new law is coming our way? I travel into and work in London and would prefer to err on the side of caution.

I'm sure you'll be the first to rant that if our Government did nothing should we have another incident on the scale of 7/7.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

What? Like a dossier saying Iraq could deploy WMD against the UK within 45 minutes? That sort of intelligence you mean?

stipete75

Iraq babies supposedly being thrown out of incubators by Saddams soldiers?? All war propaganda.

The Syrian gas attack?

James foley?

7/7

jonc

No you're right, just as stipete says, events like 7/7 was all an elaborate setup, certainly had me convinced and I was not that far from Aldgate station on that day. So what are these new controlling laws that they're going to push through?

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Apparently we will find out on Monday.

As for 7/7 what are you on about? I am not saying terrorism does not happen (although a lot less of it probably would if we stopped poking our noses into other country's affairs), but declaring DEFCON PANIC with no evidence as to why isn't going to convince me there is any more of an issue today than last month.

Martin2005

Bizarrely it could be that a lack of intelligence that has got the government spooked.

It could be that they don't know who and/or where most of these returning jihadists are or what they are up to?

jonc

Like Gaza?

Martin2005

Or Syria? Where we didn't poke our nose's in and now have ISIS and 3 million refugees

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

I see I should have added the word militarily.

Gaza was/is awful, but are you saying we should get involved on a military level?

Not bloody likely especially seeing as Osborne can't even be bothered to speak to the members of the Israeli administration he knows well.

It is a travesty we didn't get diplomatically involved, but militarily .. no thanks, that was up to the UN to get a co-ordinated response, but as usual they just decided to stand on the sidelines complaining how awful it all was.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

But they didn't know that 4 weeks ago, 4 months ago or ever!

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Not a good choice seeing as it was ISIS amongst others we would have been helping.

Martin2005

Not really.

ISIS moved into the vacuum left when the pro democracy movement had been all but destroyed or fled.

We are culpable here

1509joe

iTrader: (2)

You couldn't be more correct Sir.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Nope, according to US intelligence (and I grant you this is not alway reliable) at least half of the IS 'fighters' were in Syria at the time the West was discussing getting involved. They were classed as 'rebels'... the ones we wanted to 'help'.

tony de wonderful

It's not ISIS per se but 'generation jihad', the thousands of young british muslims who harbour a massive grudge against the west and not a small amount who will act on that.

jonc

Personally, I don't think diplomacy with the Israelis or Hamas would have reduced casualties in Gaza. Do you seriously think diplomacy or sanctions will work with IS fighters? I seriously doubt it. Diplomacy and economic sanctions did not prevent the Srebrenica massacre and nor did it end the war in Kosovo, UN military intervention did, Diplomacy and sanctions are proving ineffective in stopping Russia from sending troops into Ukraine, but that is all we have, short of starting another cold war. What effect will diplomacy and economic sanctions have on IS who are a collection of jihadist freedom fighters with no central governing body?

But four weeks ago we didn't know how far British jihadists would go to making their point. We now have a group of British jihadists beheading a western journalist and others boasting that they would be 'honoured' to do the same to other western hostages and it seems they will do whatever with little provicaiton.

We have reports of hundreds of British jihadists now fighting in Syria and Iraq who, in the event of IS being disbanded, could return to carry out retaliatory acts of terrorism on British soil and we have no idea of the identities of these jihadists.

No evidence has been published as to why the alert has been raised, but this does not mean it does not exist. Would it not be reasonable to assume that in publishing the evidence would only give away what intelligence we have and their sources to the terrorists/jihadists? Besides what use is an alert system that only reacted after a terrorist act?

I don't have the answers and these sort of things aren't as "black and white" as we would like it to be.

stipete75

There was no beheading, says a number of independent experts.
It's fake a scam a false flag.
A military or paramilitary operations designed to deceive in such a way that the operation appears as though they are being carried out by entities, groups or nations other than those who actually planned and executed them.