2.1 stroker vs forged 2.0
01 July 2013, 06:32 PM
#5
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I believe rods are the same, its the ej257 crank and bigger pistons which do it.
Costs are more if you have to machine the block and then bear in mind the price of the crank too on top of that.
2.1 is the way to go with what you want, will spool up a bit quicker than a 2.0 and should be slightly more torquey
Costs are more if you have to machine the block and then bear in mind the price of the crank too on top of that.
2.1 is the way to go with what you want, will spool up a bit quicker than a 2.0 and should be slightly more torquey
01 July 2013, 06:51 PM
#6
I believe rods are the same, its the ej257 crank and bigger pistons which do it.
Costs are more if you have to machine the block and then bear in mind the price of the crank too on top of that.
2.1 is the way to go with what you want, will spool up a bit quicker than a 2.0 and should be slightly more torquey
Costs are more if you have to machine the block and then bear in mind the price of the crank too on top of that.
2.1 is the way to go with what you want, will spool up a bit quicker than a 2.0 and should be slightly more torquey
SJ.
01 July 2013, 06:52 PM
#7
Yep it's the best part of a grand extra to go 2.1, not just because of the crank and machining but because if your going in that direction you may as well spend the extra to get the real benefits which are being able to hit 650 bhp, so that also means CDB and a few more expensive ancillaries.
To be honest if your target is 450 bhp and your sure you will be happy with that then there is a fair few quid to be saved by opting for a WRX block and standard crank as well as the 2.0L pistons and that's before you start talking about all the little bits and bobs that end up costing a fair whack when all added up.
2.1 is a bit of "the thing of the moment", as with many things and unless your really committed to keeping the car and taking it to the next level then the reality is it's probably a waste of money for the difference it will make to the car.
I say this because I have seen sooooooooooo many burst the bank balance or more likely batter their credit card to go 2.1 only to sell the car at a BIG loss a few months later, probably to pay off crippling credit card or loan charges.
I'm in no way suggesting that this is what you are doing, but it's worth considering exactly what it is you plan on doing with the car in the future and if it is purely for the road then 450bhp with a 2.0L is ample and 2.1 is a tad over kill and expensive.
To be honest if your target is 450 bhp and your sure you will be happy with that then there is a fair few quid to be saved by opting for a WRX block and standard crank as well as the 2.0L pistons and that's before you start talking about all the little bits and bobs that end up costing a fair whack when all added up.
2.1 is a bit of "the thing of the moment", as with many things and unless your really committed to keeping the car and taking it to the next level then the reality is it's probably a waste of money for the difference it will make to the car.
I say this because I have seen sooooooooooo many burst the bank balance or more likely batter their credit card to go 2.1 only to sell the car at a BIG loss a few months later, probably to pay off crippling credit card or loan charges.
I'm in no way suggesting that this is what you are doing, but it's worth considering exactly what it is you plan on doing with the car in the future and if it is purely for the road then 450bhp with a 2.0L is ample and 2.1 is a tad over kill and expensive.
Last edited by ditchmyster; 01 July 2013 at 06:54 PM.
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01 July 2013, 06:57 PM
#8
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I believe we've built more 2.1 strokers than anyone else.
There are of course a number of ways of going about building a 2.1 stroker and we've tried them all.
They all start with a 79mm crank, you then have the option of running stock length rods with a stroker piston (Mahle or Cosworth pistons both suit this application), 1mm longer rods with various manufacturers pistons or even a 1mm shorter rod version.
As I said we've tried them all and there is little to choose between them when they're built, that said our favourite combo is to use Mahle pistons and K1 or Cosworth heavy duty rods, dependant on budget of course.
There are of course a number of ways of going about building a 2.1 stroker and we've tried them all.
They all start with a 79mm crank, you then have the option of running stock length rods with a stroker piston (Mahle or Cosworth pistons both suit this application), 1mm longer rods with various manufacturers pistons or even a 1mm shorter rod version.
As I said we've tried them all and there is little to choose between them when they're built, that said our favourite combo is to use Mahle pistons and K1 or Cosworth heavy duty rods, dependant on budget of course.
01 July 2013, 07:04 PM
#9
Just to add there are other ways of achieving better spool, rotated turbo, reverse inlet, and billet turbo's as well as less top end power and a smaller turbo, all of which can mean that in the real world your car is quicker where it counts than a car that is maybe running significantly more power, which will only come into play once your WELL into triple figures.
There is always more than one way to skin a cat.
There is always more than one way to skin a cat.
01 July 2013, 07:28 PM
#11
right cheers for all the input lads,much appreciated.
i thought the rods were longer? to be honest im never going to build a 600bhp monster and im never going to track the car i just want the safety of a forged build with the scope for 500bhp should i choose to but more than likely wont be going that high,i want it to be able to take a bit of abuse but i dont really give my cars a really hard time and very rare that i go into 100+mph
if a forged 2.0 will be ok to handle between 400-500bhp without hassle then i see no need to go stroker
also if i decide not to use the avcs heads could i use a set of v5/v6 sti heads to get that sort of power-obviously they will need re-freshing
i thought the rods were longer? to be honest im never going to build a 600bhp monster and im never going to track the car i just want the safety of a forged build with the scope for 500bhp should i choose to but more than likely wont be going that high,i want it to be able to take a bit of abuse but i dont really give my cars a really hard time and very rare that i go into 100+mph
if a forged 2.0 will be ok to handle between 400-500bhp without hassle then i see no need to go stroker
also if i decide not to use the avcs heads could i use a set of v5/v6 sti heads to get that sort of power-obviously they will need re-freshing
01 July 2013, 07:51 PM
#14
2.1L is best combination like for track or fast road car,just due extra 100cc you will have better spool up and higher torque figures than 2.0L
Its worth extra pay for 2.1L,difference is only in crank and pistons which you will need purchase extra above 2.0L spec
But still when you will be going with forged 2.0L you will need to buy new crank,I wouldn't use old crank on my build,stroker pistons not more expensive than 2.0L,they cost similar money
In my view its worth and its not the waste of money,2.1L have good resale value when good parts are used,if its build on budget,not sure
Speak with yours builder first and then decide like we are spoke first with our builder and then decide
You don't need to buy CDB when you are want keep under 500,SCBD or OBD will be strong enough for yours needs
Jura
Its worth extra pay for 2.1L,difference is only in crank and pistons which you will need purchase extra above 2.0L spec
But still when you will be going with forged 2.0L you will need to buy new crank,I wouldn't use old crank on my build,stroker pistons not more expensive than 2.0L,they cost similar money
In my view its worth and its not the waste of money,2.1L have good resale value when good parts are used,if its build on budget,not sure
Speak with yours builder first and then decide like we are spoke first with our builder and then decide
You don't need to buy CDB when you are want keep under 500,SCBD or OBD will be strong enough for yours needs
Jura
01 July 2013, 07:55 PM
#15
Other bits are same as 2.0L,HG depends on more factors and usually are last to order
2.1L is best combination for fast road car and with with right heads/cams you should have great car
We have previously 2.1L and must admit awesome combo if you are looking for fast road car
Jura
01 July 2013, 08:00 PM
#16
You will need stroker pistons(Wiseco/Mahle or Cosworth),rods depends on the spec and crank EJ257
Other bits are same as 2.0L,HG depends on more factors and usually are last to order
2.1L is best combination for fast road car and with with right heads/cams you should have great car
We have previously 2.1L and must admit awesome combo if you are looking for fast road car
Jura
Other bits are same as 2.0L,HG depends on more factors and usually are last to order
2.1L is best combination for fast road car and with with right heads/cams you should have great car
We have previously 2.1L and must admit awesome combo if you are looking for fast road car
Jura
01 July 2013, 08:11 PM
#20
For some reason I thought Daz's was 600bhp either way I know it was a bloody lot! Then you've got Frayz his is something like 570 I think.
Both these examples are crazy power. I have to agree there are other ways of making it a quick car than having high headline figures.
I agree the 2.5 needs a little bit of work, minimum a set of pistons. Out of curiosity what is the cost of a new 2.5 short block these days??
Joe
Both these examples are crazy power. I have to agree there are other ways of making it a quick car than having high headline figures.
I agree the 2.5 needs a little bit of work, minimum a set of pistons. Out of curiosity what is the cost of a new 2.5 short block these days??
Joe
01 July 2013, 08:29 PM
#21
I think you can pick up a 2.5 block for circa £100, much like the WRX block both of which are perfectly adequate for the op's requirements.
All I'd say to the op is if your on a budget or you just don't want to spend stupid money, (like me) then it's worth looking at other options to arrive at your end goal.
All I'd say to the op is if your on a budget or you just don't want to spend stupid money, (like me) then it's worth looking at other options to arrive at your end goal.
01 July 2013, 08:34 PM
#23
I think you can pick up a 2.5 block for circa £100, much like the WRX block both of which are perfectly adequate for the op's requirements.
All I'd say to the op is if your on a budget or you just don't want to spend stupid money, (like me) then it's worth looking at other options to arrive at your end goal.
All I'd say to the op is if your on a budget or you just don't want to spend stupid money, (like me) then it's worth looking at other options to arrive at your end goal.
new ej205 crank
cp forged pistons
manley H-beam rods
acl rod bearings race series
acl main bearings race series
cosworth headgaskets
the whole lot including shipping was £1150
01 July 2013, 08:38 PM
#25
but did you trace the fault??
its common knowledge the 2.0 newage engine will take 450bhp.
personally id just run the engine you have up to the bhp you require before spending big money to achieve something you already have under your bonnet.
i get why you want 450bhp as this is as much as you need on the roads without losing too much driveability so good choice bhp wise
01 July 2013, 08:40 PM
#26
but did you trace the fault??
its common knowledge the 2.0 newage engine will take 450bhp.
personally id just run the engine you have up to the bhp you require before spending big money to achieve something you already have under your bonnet.
i get why you want 450bhp as this is as much as you need on the roads without losing too much driveability so good choice bhp wise
its common knowledge the 2.0 newage engine will take 450bhp.
personally id just run the engine you have up to the bhp you require before spending big money to achieve something you already have under your bonnet.
i get why you want 450bhp as this is as much as you need on the roads without losing too much driveability so good choice bhp wise
01 July 2013, 08:43 PM
#27
i do understand mate, but you haven't found the fault that caused it.
there are plenty of 2.0 newage cars on here running mid 400's without issues.
so its a proven engine at that bhp.
its your money etc, but too me it looks as if your spending out 3k ish to build an engine to do the job the one you already have is capable of.
if the plan was 500bhp plus then i get it.
01 July 2013, 08:48 PM
#28
i do understand mate, but you haven't found the fault that caused it.
there are plenty of 2.0 newage cars on here running mid 400's without issues.
so its a proven engine at that bhp.
its your money etc, but too me it looks as if your spending out 3k ish to build an engine to do the job the one you already have is capable of.
if the plan was 500bhp plus then i get it.
there are plenty of 2.0 newage cars on here running mid 400's without issues.
so its a proven engine at that bhp.
its your money etc, but too me it looks as if your spending out 3k ish to build an engine to do the job the one you already have is capable of.
if the plan was 500bhp plus then i get it.
01 July 2013, 08:54 PM
#30
i tell you what matey,i will tune my current engine to 450bhp as you say they will take it then if it goes bang you give me your car as a replacement..............deal?
i knew you had a heart