jrdn7

Hi folks, my first major post in here! I'm looking for someone to tell me more or less everything (plus a rough price) I'd need to build a Group A Impreza 555 from a standard 1995 WRX STi.

I've asked a couple of rally prep firms this question and they just sneered at the thought of a 16 year old building, then rallying, a Group A Impreza.

Thanks everyone!

type-ra

Ask Ade,

HERE

I'm sure he will help you.

Dean

jrdn7

Thanks very much mate. Is there a specific place where I could buy the exact gear I need or is it a case of look around various places?

Shaggy1991

iTrader: (1)

http://www.subaruwrcspares.com/1.html

I guess that's a good place to sort odd bits...

What's your full plan, where do you intend to start, duration of project, budget etc?

eclipse performance

iTrader: (5)

Your gonna need a healthy budget and some very good technical skills. For a start you will need to completely strip the car to a bare shell, dip it, seam weld it then have the cage professionally fitted. The works teams spend around 100 hours just prepping the shell. Then you will throw practically all of the parts you have in the bin and replace them with the Grooup A parts.

I'd guess your gonna have to spend between £40,000 and £70,000 depending on how close to the true Group A spec you intend to go and whether you buy new or secondhand. You will also have trouble sourcing most of the parts as the homologation ran out a long time ago so they are no longer made.

Fair play if you are committed to doing it right, but it's not something I would want to do and I've built many different rally cars over the years!!

grpbrallyfan

iTrader: (1)

You wouldn't have to dip the shell, it'd make your life easier but it's far cheaper and possible to do just as good a job with some careful prep. Removing underseal/paint and cleaning up old metal is a bitch but do it right and you'll be well pleased with the results.

As a starting point I'd try and see what you're allowed to do with group A regarding mods to the shell, cage re-inforcements to turrets etc... I can't remember how far they were allowed to go, I think group A was fairly basic (all things considered).

Robbied

iTrader: (4)

Yep around 50k to do things right, more if you cant do anything at all yourself. But you can't just go out and buy GpA gearboxes, diffs, uprights etc anymore, they are very few and far between.

Also things like transmission ECUs dont exist and nor do the correct GEMS loggers/dash boards.

You'll then need drawings and measurements for the shell prep, there arent many people who know exactly what needs to be done.

I can find you parts, but please dont think about it unless you have a serious budget and lots of time, knowledge and inclination!

Best off getting a V2 555 edition and making it look something like a GpA car from the outside....

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

You are probably best off buying a 2nd (or 3rd) hand one that has just been rebuilt, may be your cheapest option or go for a Grp N instead

Tony

jrdn7

I was offered an ex-Piero Latti car from 1996 (I think) for £10k, so 50k to me seems a bit steep? My plan is to build it up over the course of a year, to have it ready for it's debut at a local rally next november and full season then in 2014. As it's gonna be real long term I'll not be making a proper budget at the minute.

Spoke to a mate of mine who owns a Group A Impreza (ex-McRae 1995) and from speaking to him some parts are nigh on impossible to get a hold of. I was hoping to get it as close to Group A power and handling as I could, but running modern suspension, brakes and electronics.

I've another mate who owns a rally prep business and another who's a professional welder. Installing the cage and seam welding the shell are my biggest hurdles but these two can sort it out for me.

I helped my late Granda prepare a shell of a Landrover a 3 years ago for a show car, took about a week between him working during the day and me helping after school. I've helped with rally cars and loads of bolt by bolt rebuilds so I've a fair idea of what I'm doing. Don't want to come across like king dick but just showing I'm not a novice at this stuff!

jrdn7

Would you be able to source gravel and tar wheels mate? I can't get the originals anywhere, bar one set that were gonna cost me over £1k.

Group N puts me up against 2012 Evo's and N14 over here mate, I'd be nowhere near competitive! haha Group A has it's own class over here (not called Group A anymore, called Class 15).

lishagh

I have a group a shell caged and ready for paint , around 16 x 18 wheels , full set of suspensions (pro flex) give me a pm

Godspeed Brakes

iTrader: (259)

If you were offered an ex Piero Latti Gp A car for £10k you should have snapped it up , that was a bargain ! a proper 555 Gp A car would be around £50k to buy today.

Its always cheaper to buy a car ready to go as longs as its well looked after , I have built rally cars from scratch , and it costs a lot more than you planned !

lishagh

[QUOTE=Godspeed Brakes;10844713]If you were offered an ex Piero Latti Gp A car for £10k you should have snapped it up , that was a bargain !


£40k would have been a bargain

These cars cost a lot of money to build properly

If the latti car is available please let me know , I ll even give you a £20k finders fee plus your £10k cost price

Robbied

iTrader: (4)

Yes you will be looking at strong money for proper GpA mag wheels, thats assuming you have the correct uprights and brakes etc so you know they are going to fit!

otherwise various speedline/revolution wheels from over the years are much easier to source and a hell of a lot cheaper.

If it were me? I would have a shell done with an early prodrive cage, hewland GpN box + diffs, 2005 shafts and uprights (maybe tubular rear links, bottom arms etc etc), Open class/GpA engine on a 34mm with modern ECU and diff controller, GpN Ohlins, pre-facelift bodywork in 53C and make a suitable interior based around the GpA dash etc.

Thats about as close as you can get on a sensible budget with what is readily available today. And frankly, it'll be actually better than the cars were in 95/96......!!

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

if you have a mate who owns a rally prep business, surely he could tell you the cost

jrdn7

I'd have had the Latti if I'd got 10k at the time, but I didn't and it was just the car and the 4 wheels it stood on, nothing else. It's gone now tho, went to Eastern Europe apparently (Latvia or something). Some rich lad bought it, he apparently owns 4 fairly recent wrc cars, a 22B and countless other things.

That is more or less what I was thinking, save for the hewland GpN box. I'd be happy as a pig in **** if I managed that tho, seems a fairly reasonable project over the course of a full year. Modern ECU I was thinking something along the lines of a DTA S40 or S60.

Could someone give me a price for a hewland GpN box, diffs and the 2005 uprights & shafts?

I have done, and he's of the opinion it could be done for under £10k all in if I'm smart about what I buy and do with the bits I don't need. Obviously spare rims, spare parts, tyres, fuel etc. don't come into that figure.

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

so he answered your original question then

jrdn7

Original question was what would I need to do the job, then a rough price if possible. I'd prefer to shop about and get different people's opinions on it. He's a mate and I trust him yes and he know's his ****, but I'd rather ask about and find out I could do it for 7k rather than 10k for example.

Godspeed Brakes

iTrader: (259)

Never in a million years , a decent engine and box will be over £10k alone , building a car is never cheap , about 5 or 6 years ago I built an E30 M3 rally car , planned on building a clubman spec car I could have some fun in and looked to spending about £15k , I ended up spending £45k.



A couple of years ago I sold my clubman Gp A spec Subaru for £12k , that was a 2 door type R running standard hubs , basic spec engine and modena dog box , it was nothing special , but to think you can build a car for £7k or even £10k I think is not achievable.

You would be better off buying a car for £10k -£12k and changing the bits to the spec you want.

I have a clio now , and thats running a standard engine , but reiger suspension and Sadev sequential gearbox , and this car owes me not far off £20k , its not a cheap sport by a long way !

And if your wondering why i'm up at this ungodly hour , i'm off rallying today as i'm competing on the Fat Albert stages near Trowbridge , so allow for a good alarm clock as well

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

hahahah 10k, good luck with that.

Robbied

iTrader: (4)

Hewland Prodrive GpN box - 4-5k
N12 rear diff - 1k ish
Open class engine (even if using a basic GpN turbo on a 34mm) - 3-10k
Motec M400 (I would use a pectel N12 ECU) - 1k used
Pectel diff controller - 800ish
Front AP gravel kit for 5x114 - 1.5k
Rear AP gravel kit for 5x114 - 1k
Proflex - 2k
Ohlins - 3-4k

This is just the very basics too get you going,

Not trying to put anyone off but as people have said, do not underestimate the cost to do it right.

It's is not possible to do it nicely for 10k, full stop!

jrdn7

Does anybody think it would be possible to take a standard box, change the ratios about a bit then use that?

That list Robbied has seems fairly reasonable. Is the Motec ECU any better than the DTA?

I've already allowed for that mate, Blackberry Curve 8520! :lol1 And good luck!

CREWJ

Not if you want it to last past the start line.

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

you're 16,stick to xbox and ****.

CREWJ

I read that totally the wrong way

Stuck to his xbox

jrdn7

Yeah you seem really helpful mate, thanks.

lishagh

You ll never build a group a 555 car for £40000 never mind 7-10 k

A clumban group a car can be built for around £4000, but all that would be is a road car with all the safety stuff ,enough to get through scrutiny and a 34 mm restrictor ,

A lot of people confuse a clubman group a car with a proper group a car , the main reason that a car is in the group a class (class 15 ) is so that they can run a bigger restrictor than they can in group n ,which they may as well do because is normally out of msa/msi papers , and there is less competion in class 15 than in group n

So I think for you to build a clubman group a car , your budget can nearly dictate your car But if you build a group a 555 car then the car will dictate your budget

Good luck in your build ,great to see someone of your age having the interest and hoping to build the dream

P.s stay away from x boxes and that stuff and keep thinking , flat over crest into 5 right don't cut

Twin Fields

The Group A Subaru Impreza has to be the greatest automotive soundtrack ever!

CREWJ

That's an awesome video

Twin Fields

Brilliant, spine tingling soundtrack isn't it!