How is my car performing on this dyno chart?
26 July 2012, 12:18 PM
#1
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My modding experience
standard vf35 blob sti
full 2.5" turbo back decat
K&N panel filter
Walbro fuel pump
remap
Looking at the charts which areas could I improve on. For example top end by doing x,y,z. Torque by doing x,y,z.
Trying to maximise my gains with what I have or what I could do.
i.e. headers, up-pipe, turbo, inlet.
Looking for around 350- 360 fast road with good driveability not a harsh ride.
Air Flow Ratio
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7683311...n/photostream/
Boost
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7683311...n/photostream/
flywheel
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7683311...n/photostream/
at wheels
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7683311...n/photostream/
I hope the charts are labelled correctly this time.
full 2.5" turbo back decat
K&N panel filter
Walbro fuel pump
remap
Looking at the charts which areas could I improve on. For example top end by doing x,y,z. Torque by doing x,y,z.
Trying to maximise my gains with what I have or what I could do.
i.e. headers, up-pipe, turbo, inlet.
Looking for around 350- 360 fast road with good driveability not a harsh ride.
Air Flow Ratio
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7683311...n/photostream/
Boost
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7683311...n/photostream/
flywheel
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7683311...n/photostream/
at wheels
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7683311...n/photostream/
I hope the charts are labelled correctly this time.
Last edited by chet123; 04 October 2012 at 11:19 AM. Reason: Boost, AFR, bhp, flywheel graphs
26 July 2012, 06:18 PM
#2
kinda shocked you didnt get 330-340 at least with the mods you listed. Standard STI have 260 ish to start.
Many blob sti have got 350 with just a panel filter, exhaust and remap (fuel pump goes without saying)
What did the mapper say? must have a weak link somewhere? poor fuel quality? unknown det?
Many blob sti have got 350 with just a panel filter, exhaust and remap (fuel pump goes without saying)
What did the mapper say? must have a weak link somewhere? poor fuel quality? unknown det?
Last edited by Devious; 26 July 2012 at 06:21 PM.
26 July 2012, 06:54 PM
#4
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that might be at the wheels rather than flywheel, you might struggle to get 350-360 on a vf35 btw , porting the turbo does help aswell as ported standard headers.
26 July 2012, 07:33 PM
#5
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You must have had a boost and fueling graph, post that if you can? That is a very low figure given the mods, so I assume it's just down on boost, but post the graph if you can.
Graham
Graham
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26 July 2012, 10:35 PM
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If you click on the link guys the flywheel graph is on there in the thumbnails to the right side of the screen. The OP has labelled the graphs up wrong, he's making nearly 320 /320 which looks about right for the mods.
27 July 2012, 01:28 AM
#9
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Sorry I do not, was not given a fuel or boost graph at the time. The mapping at the time was done on Tesco Momentum but I do occasionally use v-power and that sure makes a noticable difference - so truely, I could be making a little bit more power but at what boost I haven't a clue. I understand realistically these are the sort of figures I should be getting from a vf35 but I'm also looking for mods to maximise my gains safely without blowing up the engine.
I've got to say mid-range the car feels very powerful. I'm sure at some point I'll ugrade the turbo to clearly achieve the figures I want but will make do with what I have and make little changes.
Keep the comments coming though
I've got to say mid-range the car feels very powerful. I'm sure at some point I'll ugrade the turbo to clearly achieve the figures I want but will make do with what I have and make little changes.
Keep the comments coming though
29 July 2012, 11:04 AM
#10
[Edited]
Jamie beat me to it.
Guys, this is "at wheels" figure.
chet123 - Charlie @ SRR should have given you 4 graphs; a flywheel chart, an "at the wheels" chart, an AFR (fuel ratio) one, and a boost graph.
I found the flywheel power graph on your link as Jamie suggested and have posted it below.
Don't worry about the majority of posts above, they would have assumed that's your flywheel figure, which if it had been, Charlie would have talked to you and made suggestions as to why!
TBH that's a fairly good set of mods.
You could as suggested have the turbo ported, you could also fit a Harvey up pipe for a few more bhp and ft/lbs plus slightly earlier spool.
Headers wise I was told by some guys who work with Harvey that there's no real point in going for equal length jobs until you get into the mid 400's, but you could try a set of Harvey's ported and wrapped OE headers. I have a set waiting to go on my car now.
If they're anything like the rest of the gear I've bought from Harvey I'm hoping they'll be top notch and give me some notable gains in performance and acceleration. Inlet (hose?) - wouldn't bother unless yours is damaged.
After that you're really looking at a bigger turbo if you want more.
TD05 18g/20g for a mid more mid and top end performance.
Would suggest an MD321 or SC derivative if you want closer to 400 or above.
Also - what fuel did you have in the car?
If it was Momentum 99 or VPower I'd have expected maybe 10-15bhp more I have to admit, although that said you'll definitely struggle to make 360 on a VF35; they tend to max out around 350 tops.
Jamie beat me to it.
Guys, this is "at wheels" figure.
chet123 - Charlie @ SRR should have given you 4 graphs; a flywheel chart, an "at the wheels" chart, an AFR (fuel ratio) one, and a boost graph.
I found the flywheel power graph on your link as Jamie suggested and have posted it below.
Don't worry about the majority of posts above, they would have assumed that's your flywheel figure, which if it had been, Charlie would have talked to you and made suggestions as to why!
TBH that's a fairly good set of mods.
You could as suggested have the turbo ported, you could also fit a Harvey up pipe for a few more bhp and ft/lbs plus slightly earlier spool.
Headers wise I was told by some guys who work with Harvey that there's no real point in going for equal length jobs until you get into the mid 400's, but you could try a set of Harvey's ported and wrapped OE headers. I have a set waiting to go on my car now.
If they're anything like the rest of the gear I've bought from Harvey I'm hoping they'll be top notch and give me some notable gains in performance and acceleration. Inlet (hose?) - wouldn't bother unless yours is damaged.
After that you're really looking at a bigger turbo if you want more.
TD05 18g/20g for a mid more mid and top end performance.
Would suggest an MD321 or SC derivative if you want closer to 400 or above.
Also - what fuel did you have in the car?
If it was Momentum 99 or VPower I'd have expected maybe 10-15bhp more I have to admit, although that said you'll definitely struggle to make 360 on a VF35; they tend to max out around 350 tops.
Last edited by MrNoisy; 29 July 2012 at 11:12 AM.
30 July 2012, 03:09 PM
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I do remember being handed 4 graphs but I just thought they were a duplicate of the "wheel bhp" and "flywheel bhp". I'll take a look and re-post if different.
Some fantastic and knowledgable advise here so thanks guys. I'm probably not looking to go above the 400 or in fact be anywhere near it because I want to maintain it as fast road car as opposed to a track car.
At some point I will upgrade the turbo but in the mean time will safely upgrade a couple of other components so that when I do come to upgrade the turbo I have all the supporting mods but understand they are not always necessary modifications e.g. Headers etc.
Bugeye_scoob thanks for the advise above. Very useful.
I'll probably look at a vf34 (if a decent one can be found) or a SC38. My understanding is porting the turbo and wastegate on a vf35 is purely to reduce boost creep isnt it.
Some fantastic and knowledgable advise here so thanks guys. I'm probably not looking to go above the 400 or in fact be anywhere near it because I want to maintain it as fast road car as opposed to a track car.
At some point I will upgrade the turbo but in the mean time will safely upgrade a couple of other components so that when I do come to upgrade the turbo I have all the supporting mods but understand they are not always necessary modifications e.g. Headers etc.
Bugeye_scoob thanks for the advise above. Very useful.
I'll probably look at a vf34 (if a decent one can be found) or a SC38. My understanding is porting the turbo and wastegate on a vf35 is purely to reduce boost creep isnt it.
30 July 2012, 06:00 PM
#13
I do remember being handed 4 graphs but I just thought they were a duplicate of the "wheel bhp" and "flywheel bhp". I'll take a look and re-post if different.
Some fantastic and knowledgable advise here so thanks guys. I'm probably not looking to go above the 400 or in fact be anywhere near it because I want to maintain it as fast road car as opposed to a track car.
At some point I will upgrade the turbo but in the mean time will safely upgrade a couple of other components so that when I do come to upgrade the turbo I have all the supporting mods but understand they are not always necessary modifications e.g. Headers etc.
Bugeye_scoob thanks for the advise above. Very useful.
I'll probably look at a vf34 (if a decent one can be found) or a SC38. My understanding is porting the turbo and wastegate on a vf35 is purely to reduce boost creep isnt it.
Some fantastic and knowledgable advise here so thanks guys. I'm probably not looking to go above the 400 or in fact be anywhere near it because I want to maintain it as fast road car as opposed to a track car.
At some point I will upgrade the turbo but in the mean time will safely upgrade a couple of other components so that when I do come to upgrade the turbo I have all the supporting mods but understand they are not always necessary modifications e.g. Headers etc.
Bugeye_scoob thanks for the advise above. Very useful.
I'll probably look at a vf34 (if a decent one can be found) or a SC38. My understanding is porting the turbo and wastegate on a vf35 is purely to reduce boost creep isnt it.
VF34's are ok, but you may not get quite the increase in power you're hoping for - a good 18g will probably beat the VF34 in terms of spool up and mid-top end from the research I did. SC38 is actually ScoobyClinic's modded TD05 18g. I'd also recommend looking at the Harvey performance one, as they commonly make more power than they're billed at.
Porting is indeed to prevent boost surge / creep yes - if your mapper turns up the boost you may find you get a bit of fluctuation if you floor it.
Mods-wise you're currently running an exceptionally similar spec to me, bar fuel pump as I went for a 290 in preparation for bigger turbo, and I made similar power on Sainsburys '97.
I'm about to change to an AET rebuilt TD05 20g, 650 Lateral injectors, Harvey headers and up pipe, inner wing induction kit and replacement inlet hose (given that I'm changing the turbo).
Hoping to get around 380bhp, so watch this space and I'll let you know how I get on - and if I regret going 20 instead of 18g
Last edited by MrNoisy; 30 July 2012 at 06:03 PM.
01 August 2012, 08:41 AM
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The OP has been looking for some extra performance for a while now and has been advised as to what is possibly holding him back. He has talked about doing a few different things hence the pull your finger out and get it done.
01 August 2012, 09:12 AM
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Thanks for the USEFUL post A5h, I'm sure it will become handy one day.
We should rename your username to "typical_A5h".
I've already spoken to FB Tuning, stick a vf34 and 3 port in to get where I want but it would also be useful to here from other peoples experiences too.
.We should rename your username to "typical_A5h".
I've already spoken to FB Tuning, stick a vf34 and 3 port in to get where I want but it would also be useful to here from other peoples experiences too.
01 August 2012, 09:42 AM
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Thanks for the USEFUL post A5h, I'm sure it will become handy one day.
We should rename your username to "typical_A5h".
I've already spoken to FB Tuning, stick a vf34 and 3 port in to get where I want but it would also be useful to here from other peoples experiences too.
.We should rename your username to "typical_A5h".
I've already spoken to FB Tuning, stick a vf34 and 3 port in to get where I want but it would also be useful to here from other peoples experiences too.
Good to hear you have decided on a course of action
Ps I will consider the change of user name
01 August 2012, 09:59 AM
#21
Thanks for the USEFUL post A5h, I'm sure it will become handy one day.
We should rename your username to "typical_A5h".
I've already spoken to FB Tuning, stick a vf34 and 3 port in to get where I want but it would also be useful to here from other peoples experiences too.
.We should rename your username to "typical_A5h".
I've already spoken to FB Tuning, stick a vf34 and 3 port in to get where I want but it would also be useful to here from other peoples experiences too.
Speak to Jura, he's run a VF34 and IIRC he said it's a good turbo but there isn't a significant enough difference to warrant the extra cost over a 35.
A good TD05 18g will smash a VF34 for performance and torque in the mid and upper range, and I'm surprised Rich hasn't suggested that to you.
A 20g will destroy a car on a VF34. I went out in a friend's Forester yesterday that has a 20g fitted and I was shocked by how rapid it was in comparison to my car (mine's same spec as yours).
If you want more, then go MD321H or T.
If you're happy to wait, my car should be getting mapped in about 3 weeks on a 20g, Harvey headers and up pipe, and AEM cold air induction kit (inner wing job). If it's anything as good as Dan's Forester it'll be absolutely mental.
P.S. Your graphs are labelled wrong - what you have labelled as "flywheel" bhp is actually the "at wheels" figure, and the one labelled "bhp" is the flywheel figure
Last edited by MrNoisy; 01 August 2012 at 10:01 AM.
13 August 2012, 11:21 AM
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Thanks Bugeye Scoob - keeps us posted.
To add to my list of mods, this weekend I managed to get hold of a set Harvey Smith OEM ported Headers and Slip Jointed Up-pipe which has transformed the driveability of car. More grunt, more torque, more power, car feels more alive and responsive throughout all gears. What can I say Harvey Smith products top quality and definitely recommended.
Next I have a 3 port to go on with a remap tweak.However I do feel the turbo doesnt spool as sooner as I'd thought it would with the headers and up-pipe on. Maybe this will come once the map has been done.
To add to my list of mods, this weekend I managed to get hold of a set Harvey Smith OEM ported Headers and Slip Jointed Up-pipe which has transformed the driveability of car. More grunt, more torque, more power, car feels more alive and responsive throughout all gears. What can I say Harvey Smith products top quality and definitely recommended.
Next I have a 3 port to go on with a remap tweak.However I do feel the turbo doesnt spool as sooner as I'd thought it would with the headers and up-pipe on. Maybe this will come once the map has been done.
13 August 2012, 11:41 AM
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I should add to compliment the performance I have;
Suspension
- BC Coilovers (BR series)
- Whiteline Anti Lift Kit
- Fast Road Geomentry Setup
Brakes
- Braketech Grooved discs all round
- Kevlar Fast Road pads all road
- HEL Braided brake lines
Suspension
- BC Coilovers (BR series)
- Whiteline Anti Lift Kit
- Fast Road Geomentry Setup
Brakes
- Braketech Grooved discs all round
- Kevlar Fast Road pads all road
- HEL Braided brake lines
13 August 2012, 11:55 AM
#24
Chet, as people say the VF35 is reluctant to boost hard early because it surges. However this is normally because of fitting an induction kit. In some ways I wish I didn't run an induction kit, but I love the sound. Looking at your boost graph it boosts a lot earlier than mine, and it doesn't seem to currently have surge. Decent looking graph to be honest.
I'll be looking to port mine very soon, via Harvey Smith as mine overboosts too, also hoping to fit a stronger actuator.
However I'm reluctant to buy a new turbo... yet. But the better route would be to change the turbo to something that doesn't surge!
I'll be looking to port mine very soon, via Harvey Smith as mine overboosts too, also hoping to fit a stronger actuator.
However I'm reluctant to buy a new turbo... yet. But the better route would be to change the turbo to something that doesn't surge!
13 August 2012, 05:08 PM
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The fuelling looks good, Power and torque about 12 to 32 down at fly really.
Boost plot yu have cut the boost measure off the right of the graph, I assume thats judt peaking at 1.5bar and tailing off, if so then thats spot on too.
Either something a miss with the car which should have been identified at time of mapping (engine wont take timing compared to a normal example - perhaps bad tank of fuel for example) or particularly safe map.
Imho
Simon
Boost plot yu have cut the boost measure off the right of the graph, I assume thats judt peaking at 1.5bar and tailing off, if so then thats spot on too.
Either something a miss with the car which should have been identified at time of mapping (engine wont take timing compared to a normal example - perhaps bad tank of fuel for example) or particularly safe map.
Imho
Simon
28 August 2012, 08:16 PM
#26
Chasing numbers is a bit futile because just for a start it depends which rolling road you choose to use but as a rule of thumb a good VF35 on a well mapped car with a good engine and all supporting mods can expect around 340 bhp so I guess that is your target.
Let us know how your mapping goes. It should be very interesting. Always remember that if you go to a different rolling road the figures can't really be compared fairly with the previous rolling road but your mapper will be able to tell you what he has done in terms of fuel and ignition.
Let us know how your mapping goes. It should be very interesting. Always remember that if you go to a different rolling road the figures can't really be compared fairly with the previous rolling road but your mapper will be able to tell you what he has done in terms of fuel and ignition.
31 August 2012, 11:18 AM
#27
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So I finally had my remap and the outcome was much dissappointing. I gained an astonishing 4bhp and the same for torque @ 1.4 (will post graphs up later).
Now I have no reason to believe this has anything to do with the recent mods as I stand by my word in that the car drives very well indeed for a fast road car even with the Harvey products being backed up by Dynamix and Charlie. As expected I would have hoped to see in the region of 330-340 or thereabouts with my current setup but it just wasn't meant to be.
Dynamix who carried out the mapping could not explain what he was seeing considering the mods I had fitted. There was just no explaination as to what could be the contributing factor to the lower region of figures. All other readings were spot on.
From my first dyno session (post #1) my suspicion was always there that this car was never going to make big gains as it made 319/319 @ 1.5 boost, hence the opening post for maximisation.
I do however believe that I've done as much as what this engine/turbo can take, so with that in mind my next planned upgrade will be a new turbo.
I've considered a vf34 which I think will perform very well but will not make a big enough difference to my current vf35 as the above results have proved. I would be extremely dissappointed if I went for this option or a similiar turbo and only gain 20-30 more brake on the original 322 recently dyno'd. I want to aim for a quick spooling car with good bhp running in the region of 350-370, and without comprimising the injectors, fuel pump, panel filter, TMIC and internals.
I've been recommended a MD321, SC40, AFTD05-20G which are all good for 400 or thereabouts. I'm not looking for anywhere near this figure as I'm sure I will not enjoy the daily drive. I appreciate these turbo's are all good for 400 but knowing my luck I'll get 370 from them as that is what my car would be capable of producing.
Then again it may work the other way and blow the 400 barrier - now that would be impressive.
In brief:
-Dyno'd on same rollers (understand if taken to another dyno would get different figures)
-Used vpower as opposed to momentum on previous mapping session (thought that would've made a difference too)
-Harvey Slip jointed up-pipe and OEM ported headers, wrapped
-Prodrive 3 Port Solenoid
Now I have no reason to believe this has anything to do with the recent mods as I stand by my word in that the car drives very well indeed for a fast road car even with the Harvey products being backed up by Dynamix and Charlie. As expected I would have hoped to see in the region of 330-340 or thereabouts with my current setup but it just wasn't meant to be.
Dynamix who carried out the mapping could not explain what he was seeing considering the mods I had fitted. There was just no explaination as to what could be the contributing factor to the lower region of figures. All other readings were spot on.
From my first dyno session (post #1) my suspicion was always there that this car was never going to make big gains as it made 319/319 @ 1.5 boost, hence the opening post for maximisation.
I do however believe that I've done as much as what this engine/turbo can take, so with that in mind my next planned upgrade will be a new turbo.
I've considered a vf34 which I think will perform very well but will not make a big enough difference to my current vf35 as the above results have proved. I would be extremely dissappointed if I went for this option or a similiar turbo and only gain 20-30 more brake on the original 322 recently dyno'd. I want to aim for a quick spooling car with good bhp running in the region of 350-370, and without comprimising the injectors, fuel pump, panel filter, TMIC and internals.
I've been recommended a MD321, SC40, AFTD05-20G which are all good for 400 or thereabouts. I'm not looking for anywhere near this figure as I'm sure I will not enjoy the daily drive. I appreciate these turbo's are all good for 400 but knowing my luck I'll get 370 from them as that is what my car would be capable of producing.
Then again it may work the other way and blow the 400 barrier - now that would be impressive.
In brief:
-Dyno'd on same rollers (understand if taken to another dyno would get different figures)
-Used vpower as opposed to momentum on previous mapping session (thought that would've made a difference too)
-Harvey Slip jointed up-pipe and OEM ported headers, wrapped
-Prodrive 3 Port Solenoid
31 August 2012, 11:54 AM
#29
Damn Chet I really thought you would have made more power! You certainly have all the right ingredients! Before mine was even mapped it made 330bhp with pretty much the same mods as yourself, I would have thought you could at least get to 340bhp. Did Duncan mention if it wasn't taking additional timing or anything or was all good as far as he was concerned except for the figures?