scoobyc

iTrader: (2)

Alright chaps,

Am sat here idling and thinking of which way to head in the future and was after some advice.

Once i get my next stage of stuff done ill be looking at replacing the turbo.

So basically. The min spec i need is able to take some antilag & dvless.

So super cheap option i could go for vf39 2nd hand for about 250 quid, with stock sti injectors this should see me to 330 right?

Alternativly from what ive read i could go for a td05 18g for about 500 quid, with some larger injectors 650cc's? which should be good for 370?

Now 400 would be a nice number, however i understand reaching this point is twice as expensive as reaching 370 so perhaps that should be my goal.

Car is to be used on road, track, and sprints, so dont want a laggy high power turbo, something similar to my current (vf28/23 i think) would be very acceptable.


So what should i really be looking at/for?

scoobyc

iTrader: (2)

let me ad some more details/basic spec.

so v4 sti. with stock gearbox, diffs and clutch. Stock engine internals. Usual supporting mods. simtek.

i read 400 is really max that this engine should be pushed to. so if i want a good drivable 370 for track n sprint i.e. not slow spool what should i be looking for?

Car currently RR'ed at 300 due to tired turbo n tmic (which will be changed to fmic shortly)

bob r

iTrader: (46)

Ive seen the TD05 18g being sold on Ebay by a co called XS Power. Look at the feedback and they have let them go for £300.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

TD05 16G, in reallity you wont want to go past this turbo, its capable of 350bhp which is about as capable as your car will do safely (ie without breaking everything and then there is a good chance it will still eat your clutch and gearbox and a slight possiblity of putting one of those wonderful compressed cardboard rods out the side of your block).
370bhp will definately begin to get expensive and 400bhp, well your car's engine isnt capable of that anyway, it will definately go bang.
Note that similar cars have put their rods/pistons through the block at 330bhp, so there is a bit of a warning for you, 400bhp will cost you the far side of 10k to do properly, and if you want that magic 400bhp I would sell your version 4 sti and buy a new age car, far stronger engine/gearbox/clutch etc.

Tony

scoobyc

iTrader: (2)

yeah? I was reading the stock sti gearbox is fairly capable up to abuot 400 MAX. Yes i hear the rods are ****e .

So how much of a risk is it really to be pushing 370. 370 would be very very nice!

Im not overly worried about blowing it. it is a 2nd car. obviously id be gutted and it would cost a lot of time to rebuild it. but still dont mind taking a little risk.

The money ive already shuved into this classic means i cant really sell it lol. and the classic is the only impreza for me im afraid!

So you think its suicidal going for 370 without setting asied 3/4k for box and 4k for a rebuild?

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

If you buy all the parts for the engine (internals etc prob cost you 1500 quid) then add your fmic, turbo, injectors etc and build, your probably looking at 4-4.5k for the engine etc, a 6 speed box with rear diff will set you back 2.5ish k so call that 7.5k, clutch (another 500 quid so 8k) plus there are always little bits that need doing (see you have the AP's anyway ) so your still looking 8+k and the gearboxes are stronger but not that much stronger, the torque still kills em, you dont want to put more than say 330lbs through the box (your v4 has a weaker casing than the v5/6 car) so its all about reliability.
I have seen those rods go at 250bhp, very rare but it can happen, same rods across the 2ltr turbo range in the classics so 370bhp.... really pushing it

Tony

bigsinky

listen to the man. early engines with 100K+ miles will be lunched. save your money for a newer car.

Funkierthanfunky

I've been down this route.....

Fitted FMIC, SIMTEC and larger injectors into a Ver2 RA which has the closed deck block etc had it remapped to a very conservative 300ish bhp as the main reason for the upgrades was to have a FMIC so I could run on trackdays without getting to much heat build up in the stock intercooler.

Put a rod through the block at Oulton park.

So rebuilt with a 2.5 bottom end and then stripped all the teeth off 3rd gear at km marker 15 at the Nurburgring, and that was with only 320bhp (370lb/ft), although it did do an 8:45 btg lap like that ( and I'd with a 3/4" stopper under the throttle pedal to limit power as I was worried about the 'box).

I am now of the opinion that unless you put a 6 speed box in them a classic that is running much more than 320 ish is going to break something (sooner rather than later too)

scoobyc

iTrader: (2)

Ive heard we gotta be careful on ebay that the turbo casing is sufficient for the compressor type...

scoobyc

iTrader: (2)

o dear thats not good. Perhaps i should revise for a vf39 then or 16g and stick for 330 max then?

Track for sure will munch the engine this year i rekon, if it last another year ill be dead chuffed. I dont have an unlimited budget and chucking 8k at it further is no-brainer not too unless youve got money to burn.

So looks like with the exception of a vf39/330brake my modification of this cars power is coming to an end.

So vf39 250, will stock tmic work ok? what about stock injectors wil they both reach 330bhp?

so if i for sure rule out 370, then i have to consider is the expense worth the extra 30-50 bhp. or would that probably 500 quid be better spent on a few trackdays...

bigsinky

500 quid on a few trackdays. enjoy the car. unless you are a big company with loads to spend you are never going to be competitive at the top. just take a few mates out with you with similar interests and have fun. thats what the car is for. i too have been down the heavy modification route and have been without my car for over 2 years saving for my next engine. enjoy what you have

scoobyc

iTrader: (2)

Ok thanks for the advice. dissappointing as it is.

So final Questions then.


I believe my turbo is on its way out. So....

is vf39 the best option for a replacement? Will my tmic & injectors be suitable?

Will the VF39 be able to take my antilag and umpvalvelessness sufficiently? Just simtek ALS not WRC. If im gonna replace my turbo and im not going for big power i want something with virtually no lag and something which can take some track stick.

twin scroll possible?? I dont want to be spending more than 500 quid on a 2nd hand one ideally.

Advice welcome.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Go for the TD05 16G, forget the VF39, no one uses them for a reason, forget twin scroll, you will be replacing half your engine (sump, downpipe, manifold and turbo) and 500 quid wont get you those (plus you will need a remap to run it )

Stick with the tried and tested methods

Tony

scoobyc

iTrader: (2)

Ok so TD05 16G is the best for my purpose then. they are hardy and fast spooling. how do they compare to the vf23/28? Spool time, what power will that produce? 300-330 thoughout the whole rev range?

What about tmic n injectors . with a td05 16g?

Changing injectors is doable but dont wanna go for a 500 quid fmic n air filter if im no longer going for big power. just a waste of money i think.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Your always best upgrading the injectors to 550's, fmic is better than the tmic due to the lack of air at higher speeds getting to it due to the scoop design
Both those vf turbo's will spool up slightly faster as they are roller bearing turbos (low friction) but dont have the top end of the TD05 16G, but the 16G will be more than adiquate and you will not notice much if any difference

Tony

scoobyc

iTrader: (2)

so really. current injectors are fine and tmic is also fine. would be nice to do them but thats 750 quid for pretty much nothing right?

So thats about 1k i can save myself. thats quite a few track days i can get on.

Looks like its as fast power wise as its going to be then, got a few more suspension brake and styling tweaks to do now then so relativly cheap mods. Also might baffle sump and oil cooler then its fairly track ready. already got uprated OP etc.

Will let me put a bit more saving into a tvr/m3 fund then lol. silver lining and all that.

Cunaide

i have a v4 wrx import and its running 330bhp, my engine is fully forged with a fmic standard 440 injectors and vf 34 turbo and apexi power fc, i was told if i wanted more power i would have to change to a six speed before anything else changed but 330 is plenty for now.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Speaking as the owner of a 340bhp classic on standard internals. I'd say get a turbo capable of that output (think VF34,35 TD05-16G) with supporting mods and leave it at that.

They can be perfectly reliable at this level - assuming A1 mapping. Transmission is another matter: a fit box, treated well will probably be ok; mine has. However, you should probably prepare for the worst (financially) and hope for the best.

It's simple really: drive em like a race car on std internals; they'll break, drive em like a race car when tuned on std internals, chances are they'll break sooner

The early to mid 300s is a comfortable place for a fit and well maintained/driven classic to be. Also makes for a VERY quick real world car. Beyond that, things get serious in terms of the outlay required to assure reliability.

Ns04

boss_man

get a td05 20g, 700cc injectors, with supporting mods i,e exhaust, fmic remap etc and you should hit 400 nicely!

happydude303

iTrader: (1)

20g will only hit 400bhp on a bad dyno or some meth mix or something along them lines 380-390bhp will be more like it

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

I take it those supporting mods include a fully forged engine rebuild and/or a 6 speed gearbox/5 speed ppg build as it will kill both the engine and gearbox on a classic engine....

Tony

boss_man

stock engines can handle upto 400 bhp mate! just ask ANDY FORREST! he had a stock ra with 440bhp! so what are you on about!?!?!

boss_man

if he gets his car to run on 99 ron and set up properly he will definatley see 400bhp!

boss_man

**Mapped to run 99 ron**

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

For a very short period of time before the pistons come out the side of the block
To keep these reliable they shouldnt be pushed beyond 350bhp, its been known for years (and we are talking 10+ here) that these engines are weak, back in 2000 they use to rebuild them for power at around 320-330bhp due to the rods being the biggest weak point, there have been many a classic engine thats been mapped correctly and that has gone pop with far less than 350bhp, and these engines have not changed in that period of time (we are talking after market ecu's like motec, link etc which are better than the standard item).
400bhp is engine suicide, plus the rest of the car will break also.

Tony

scoobyc

iTrader: (2)

Yeah soundsl ike good advice.

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

350 tops and you will have a car that you can enjoy.

go for 400 and you will have a car that you can look at in the garage and wonder what it would be like to drive when it is fixed.

Sc0oby

i would save up and replace your oil pump with an uprated and as well replace all the bearings before doing anything else

scoobyc

iTrader: (2)

or... buy an evo RS and go from there lol.

happydude303

iTrader: (1)

all evo,s need forged engine after 350bhp as well hence why in all the fq400 models they put in forged pistons and rods in and bearings i now this becuase my mate use to do the fq model in southampton where they are still done to this day its only the new evo ten has not had this doen as they have change the engine copletey out of the factory the only plus with them is there five speed can run 500 bhp but there six speed suck,s big fat hairy ones p.s my mates evo 7 went about a month after it was tune to 370bhp 340 ft and his was tuned by ,mark sheedy who is a don in the world of evo,s