dogeggs2000

Could anybody please shed some light on my 99 UK totally standard classic scooby is pouring raw fuel out of the exhaust? All of the injectors are putting far too much fuel in. It is also getting into the sump and so must be bypassing the rings on the compession stroke, the rest then just get flirted out of the exhaust! It has used 20 quid this morning whilst idling. There is no check engine light illuminated or anything and the car is just misfiring and running like a bag of Sh*te!
Please please help.

DJ140

Your Cats will be fecked then, it doesn't sound good mate.

Dan

DJ140

No Idea what the problem is though, sorry I can't be of help to you, someone on here will be able to help.

dogeggs2000

Cheers anyway lads,

I have been on to Glenburgie Subaru and they have said that they have only seen it once before on a legacy rally car and they changed the ECU and all was well. They then said that they got the dodgy ECU and put it in another car and the car had exactly the same problem!

My mechanic has tried disconnecting all of the 4 sensors on the engine while it is running and there is no difference which suggests they are ok. I have ordered the ECU and it will be being fitted on Wedensday so I will keep you posted.

Cheers

Butty

iTrader: (2)

So you won't be fitting a flamer kit for a while....

Nick

tweenierob

Normally if you disconnect a sensor and it makes no difference it means the sensor is faulty. Disconnecting a sensor should in fact make it worse.

Rob

nom

Is there a mapped point on the ECU at which that much fuel should be being poured in at idle rpm? (ie presuming the MAF and/or lambda is feeding the ECU duff info - never heard of the rpm signal going that haywire!). It seems unlikely - so if the various sensors are knackered, the ECU would still be duff anyway, surely?
Only guessing, of course
Hope the ECU does sort it - if it does, change the oil immediately too! An 'oil' which is mainly fuel won't lubricate too well

dogeggs2000

Rob,

The car can not run any worse, there is black smoke coming out of the back and petrol being flirted everywhere out of the exhaust! All sensors have been disconnected with no change, it just fires on 2 sometimes three cylinders all of the time. Surely all of the sensors can't fail simultaneously?

dogeggs2000

Wow the plot thickens! ECU and oil changed and no difference! This is getting very very expensive.
Does anybody know of any feedback control loops to the fuel pump pressurisation system? For instance is there a pressure tranmitter which retards the fuel pump duty once it has pressurised the system for initial ingnition? All four cylinders are just filling up with fuel when the engine isn't running and the ignition switch is turned on.??????????????????????????????

greasemonkey

Could be wrong, but it looks more as though the fuel system pressurisation sequence is a simple timer, not governed by a pressure sensor in the fuel line, so that probably works against the theory you're formulating...

Just so we can understand clearly what's happening (and not happening here), please can you answer true or false to the following questions:

1) When you turn the ignition on, the fuel pump runs for a few seconds to pressurise the system and then stops

2) When you turn the ignition on, the fuel pump pressurises the system and carries on running

3) The fuel injectors are operational with the ignition on but the engine not running

If you can give a t/f to those it would at least allow us to establish in our heads exactly what is happening and what isn't.

The odd thing here is the suggestion that fuel is being dumped through the engine with all the sensors disconnected. The way the JECS ECU's are programmed, if the crank sensor is disconnected, you will not get spark or injection when the engine is turned over, so the thing shouldn't fire at all, let alone deliver any fuel to the cylinders.

Thus, if it does, the obvious culprit is a corrupt ECU, yet you say you've tried another.

Unless the second ECU is also shot, the only other thing I can think of is a damaged/shorting wiring loom between the engine and the ECU.

If you can t/f those three questions above though, maybe things will look a bit clearer



[Edited by greasemonkey - 8/14/2003 4:07:01 AM]

Creepy

And what about his CEL light. As a half mecanic I understand that thing about disconnecting sensors. But if the engine is running in an emergency program (CEL), the ECU doesn't use much of the sensors... just enough to keep the engine running. (At low speed and revs).

I only saw this once and it turned out te be faulty injectors, but then the engine had no power and when playing with th loud pedal it stalled !!!

Creepy

greasemonkey

Yep, good points Creepy. Fubared injectors could explain it.

Dogeggs, can I add another true/false scenario?:

4) With the sensors disconnected from the engine, the Check Engine Light illuminates as soon as you turn the ignition on.

True or false?

KainUK

Sorry to drag up an 11 year old thread but the exact same is happening with my 05 gx sport, did you ever get to the bottom of it?

Cheers

Then I realised to guys only got 4 posts doh!

FMJ

iTrader: (2)

Well firstly obviously don't run the car. Too much fuel in the cylinder and you will will lock it up and ruin the engine. Too much fuel in the bores and they will be ruined. Too much fuel in the oil and it will stop working and your engine will cook/seize.

Maybe let it run a few seconds and turn off then remove plugs to see if fuel pours out one or more cylinders? If it's just one maybe its a stuck injector. Or maybe an injector seal? These are just uneducated guesses so wait until somebody who knows more confirms or gives better advice.

Either way obviously be very careful you don't go up in flames or turn the car into a fireball.

scoobyJim2

Do a compression test to see if a particular cylinder is letting fuel into sump and maybe head gasket test to see if fuel is going where exhaust gases go. Or one of the butterflys on the inlet manifold right by the injectors might be stuck shut,they're controlled by a servo/sensor that opens and closes them. One is by the turbo on the inlet manifold (on a 04wrx anyway) and is a pig to replace if need be,the other is near the engine oil dipstick alsi on inlet manifold and is easier to change. Have you checked for spark on all plugs?

Matt Sargent

iTrader: (1)

Could possibly be knackeres lambda sensor, I had one go once not in a subaru but a more economical car and it was costing me £1 a mile in fuel ! Where I usually got like 50-60 miles to £10 , but your best bet is taking it to a subaru specialist close to you and getting it looked at professionally will save you £'s in the long run

KainUK

When I start the car it runs fine then within 30seconds it starts rumbling/misfiring I guess, then under the engine I can see fuel burbling from exhaust manifold (where it joins the block) it's drained nearly a full tank of fuel in less than 30 minutes of idling.

I replaced and checked all spark plugs the other day, but now cylinders 2 + 4 are wet with petrol ( same side as fuel drip)

Checked compression Saturday with a cheapo halfords gauge with engine cold (didn't want to run it)

Cyl 1 - 200psi
Cyl 2 - 180psi
Cyl 3 - 210psi
Cyl 4 - 175psi

These are off top of my head, I did write em down at home, but these are close figures

KainUK

Other than from Subaru, am I likely to buy injectors from anywhere else?

Impreza 2.0 GX Sport 125bhp reg BJ05YND

scoobyJim2

50-60 miles is what most scooby drivers get to £20 lol

scoobyJim2

Maybe compression is too low on 2 & 4 and not burning enough fuel. Also You say you've changed plugs but have you actually checked for spark by removing coil packs and fitting a plug one at a time and holding next to rocker cover,crank engine over a check for spark.you will need someone to help with this

KainUK

Sorry yes, I tested them one by one outside the block because I also fitted a new coilpack.

scoobyJim2

Do you know if fuel is actually coming out of exhaust or just leaking onto it?

scoobyJim2

Just had a google and my searches varied from crank ventilation,to piston rings leaking and injectors burning holes in pistons

merlin24

iTrader: (1)

Leaking Injector 'O' ring(s) will fill the cylinder(s) up very quickly.

Mick

KainUK

like i mentioned before the fuel is burbling out of the exhaust manifold where the headers join the bottom of the block, one of the three bolts is missing presumed snapped so there's a slight gap for the fuel to burble out of.

no fuel coming from the rails/injectors and or fuel lines that i can see just running down the outside of the headers as above.

When i ran it sunday it stank of raw fuel from the tailpipe with plumes of white smoke and because i had it jacked up to check the headers there was a puddle of milky white liquid collecting at the tip of the tailpipe.

I've checked my oil today and it's thin as **** and reeks of petrol, presumably from raw fuel being sent into the sump.

I've also had injectors 2 + 4 off today and ran some throttle body cleaner through them, they don't appear to be sticking open.

Here's how the full story goes.

sometime in the beginning of February (bout the 7th) started having starting issues but would eventually fire up with a little bit of throttle, the next day it threw up a knock sensor CEL and as I've read these are common failure i bought one, cleared CEL but still had starting intermittently which eventually disappeared but the car drove the best it had done for ages so the knock sensor must've been on it's was out for a long time.
Read online that crank + cam sensors are common place to look after trying plugs and such with starting issues.

sat 22nd , drove 100odd miles to lake district no problems without starting issues going up there, parked up at hotel left for a few hours then returned to car to have starting issues again but this time after it fired up and i was driving and the CEL started flashing and the car was bucking/losing power but i was only driving less than 1/2 mile down road to the nearby pub for some dinner.

Sun 23rd driving home from lakes the CEL started flashing with major loss of power and it eventually stopped, my mate had to rescue me which was most embarrassing.

so car now on drive, ordered new plugs, coilpack, cam + crank sensors and second hand alternator (i knew mines wasn't 100%) and fitted a spare idle air control valve

Fitted each part as they arrived, car would turn over but not fire which i was doing pretty much each day from 24th to the 28th. That evening it fired up and we have the issues you've been trying to help with.

Sorry about the length of the post.

Thank you all for trying to help me, it's very much appreciated

Cheers
Chris

EDIT
Sorry forgot to ask, there's a set of non turbo cylinder heads on fleabay, but from a 2002 bugeye 2.0 non turbo will these fit on my 2005 2.0 non turbo.

scoobyJim2

This is something I found on google.i think this could be happening and covering cat and 02sensors and giving you cel lights.

The worse case scenario is a fuel injector that has failed in the open position. This will immediately flood the cylinder with fuel, disabling the spark plug and allowing raw fuel to flow into the exhaust system. This can be a dangerous situation since, in severe cases, raw fuel may pour out of the exhaust with the engine running. It will also destroy the catalytic converter in short order.*In a less severe situation, the fuel economy will take a dive.

scoobyJim2

Someone else i spoke to said if its not injectors playing up (adding fuel out of time) then check fuel return pipe for blockage.

KainUK

Cheers,
I've bought 2 used injectors off fleabay.
I swapped the 2 injectors over the other day and not noticed any fuel coming out the manifold or tail as yet (only residual) but it's running rich now, I'm convinced my cat and lambdas are fubar so I'll need to replace them, the oil defiantly needs changing

One thing I did notice was the top o ring on injector cyl 2 wasn't on the injector, but between the rail and the injector (sandwiched) but I've never had the injectors out and I've been running it nearly 4 years now without problems.

scoobyJim2

Thats good news and probably has been your problem! Cat & 02s are probably saturated,maybe inspect the 02s and see if can clean them. If you run the car for a while with new oil you might be lucky and burn off the crap on the cat

KainUK

Well ran it for a full hour on idle today, no fuel smell but really rich, and no excessive fuel consumption
When plugged into ecuexplorer at operating temp, air/fuel correction #1 is going mental plus and minus all the time, does this mean lambda is caput?
Idle is lumpy
Gonna replace oil either tomorrow or saturday, then let warm up again and check compression again
Not going to move the car until oil is replaced

Cheers for all the help
Will keep y'all updated
Chris