CJPow

Hey guy's

Looking for some advice towards increasing power on my Hatch 330s.

I'm currently having a forged engine built and should be rated to 500hp. Head gasket went and decided to go the full hog for a peice of mind.

I'd like to get more power from it now I have the opportunity and looking for some research and advice from members who have gone this way and what its like to live with. I don't have any real idea on what I want apart from I will be driving the car most day's so can't be too much of a pig when I can't be bothered with it.

I guess, what I am asking is how much is too much for a daily drive?

I've been advised that the SC42+ is a good choice and that it's superseded the SC46.

The only mod's on the car as of present is a turbo back exhaust and an ECUtek map. Also trying to see what supporting mod's I would need, understand I would need a new inlet pipe and FMIC. What are the limits of the standard ECU and clutch?

I appreciate these questions may be a bit of a minefield and I've owned and tinkered with a lightly modded STi before but not to this level.

SmurfyBhoy

Standard ECU would be fine,

Benefit from Syvecs tho and could save the engine in some cases.

Clutch, Injectors, FMIC

As for driving it daily if your not already on 1st name terms with local Shell employees then you will be,

Tidgy

Depends who you ask, i wouldn't like to run standard ecu with such a large turbo, but some do.

SmurfyBhoy

The Sc42+ isn't exactly huge,

Later ECU are a bit more capable then the older ones too,

If you want to go above and beyond what's needed the list is endless,

Tidgy

i had an sc46 and the ecu couldn't react quick enough to the mass of the turbo when dropping down to idle, so would stall unless you raised the idle RPM. Add in the MAF (Which is still retained even when run mafless) plus a whole heap of other things then your seriously pushing the ECU beyond is design.

Personally i want a road car to run as OEM as possible untill i plant the right foot.

Can it be run at that level? yes, is it ideal, no.

SmurfyBhoy

Yea you need to run a blen of maf/mafless to get rid of it i think

I get that issue but only under silly circumstances like dropping down to idle with full lock on,

Raising the idle rpm wouldn't bother me either,

Takes you closer to the boost threshold that's prob been raised too.

Plus the OEM drive ability kinda goes out the window when your nearly double the output of 10 yr old cars,

What's the "whole heap of other things"

It's not ideal to run a fuel cut defender & manual boost controller either but folk do

Tidgy

running like OEM is perfectly capable if you do it right. My type R was as happy poping to the shops, tootling around, sat at 70 as it was giving it full wack.

Tune right and you wont end up with a bag of spanners, supporting mods are just as important if you want a reliable car that doesn't drive crap.

SmurfyBhoy

Type R not exactly a great example of OEM refinement

But i know what you mean

Pete

A classic with 500 must be inasane? Even 400, lol.

Couldn’t imagine my RA with that power

Tidgy

mine was a 2.5 so 390bhp/465ftlb, was epic hahahaha

SmurfyBhoy

So are we talking about the stock type r ECU ?

or Newage ?

Tidgy

syvecs on the type R, my old hawk was at 390bhp on stock ecu. I've had both for comparison

although admittedly on different cars.

bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

A upgraded ecu is what gives you extra features, more capability of tuning certain areas, safer for your engine as you can set safety features etc.
The stock ecu on the hatch sti will be fine but your boost will be limited.
Back to back an upgraded ecu will give you ability to run more power.
To do it right is an expensive game. Choose wisely

bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

Certainly is, base map testing lol

johnlogie

iTrader: (4)

I don't see an issue with driving the car daily at that power as long as it's mapped properly.
The biggest issue, for me, will be which clutch you choose. I had a paddle clutch but didn't like it in traffic. I have an act clutch now and it's miles better.

Dave Y

iTrader: (52)

I have an Extreme clutch....it’s a nightmare. Noisy,rattles and judders.
Engine wise @ 478 it’s fine.

stonejedi

iTrader: (51)

All you need is proper engine management with changeable maps one with moderate power for everyday driving,and another changeable into Hulk aggression at the flip of a switch or turn of a **** etc....Plus any clutch capable of holding 500+ torque levels comfortable is not going to be O.E drivable!....SJ.

CJPow

SmurfyBhoy

http://www.afpsubaru.co.uk/ecutek.htm

ECUtek should have switchable maps on your car

johnlogie

iTrader: (4)

I don’t drive my car daily but could if needed. My clutch isn’t too bad to use, isn’t too heavy. If you want the extra power then go for it. I can happily sit at 30mph or 130mph. High end power doesn’t matter if the cars mapped properly for different loads (ie nice and smooth throughout the Rev range). The car should run perfect no mater load or speed so overall power is irrelevant

scooby2.5maz

iTrader: (16)

If you running an sc42 plus . Just go with pink box exedy. I'm running 476/470 odd no issues .

Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

Some great advise and leanings in the above posts.


To add my two peneth....


My Hatch is on the standard ecu with a built 2.5 with an MD321V Twin Scroll, 800 injectors, RCM< fuel pump, RCM Induction, RCM EL headers, 3" exhaust system, Standard TMIC running between 400-430 but at the serious limits of the TMIC. The driveability of the car is fine apart from the ecu has not learnt the idle (3 weeks since mapping) so it occasionally stalls or lurches on idle (750rpm - 1500rpm) only when cold. For tootling around I use "I" mode and its very refined, I would say not much difference from the standard set up. The only issues I with the car is it is too loud (Hayward and Scott straight through) and the occasional stalling, both of which are easy fixes and will be fixed Mon-Tue next week.


The car today is in the garage having FMIC, FPR, Resonator (needs to be quieter), 4 port to run at 1.7 bar on standard ecu with better control. Might even look at Meth depending on the results from the above.


The car drives great as it was, and I think the above wont cause any detriment. And surprisingly the Helix un-sprung twin plate clutch drives almost OEM, Very little noise and the clutch control is easy. That said I do recommend the Exedy Twin plate too, but they are a little noisier...


This was my Saloon with Exedy Twin plate - oh and SC turbo - The noise from both!



To summarise: My experience of 400-430 in a hatch with a twin plate is a great road car, and a SC42 will make generous power and will be fine with the TMIC, but certainly nowhere near 500bhp you were enquiring on. The SC46 is better suited to the 2.5 and will make well over 450bhp but you will now need a FMIC.

CJPow

Epic video Rob, that does go well!

Your spec sounds like the route I plan on going, I would rather not push the limits of the engine though, still a sore spot with the wife, especially after going bang after two weeks of ownership!!

I've never been in an Impreza over 330 so quite looking forward to it!. However, a mate owned 400 Evo 9, that was no messer!

Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

You'll love it mate. At the end of the day if you do it slowly but ensure you put the right parts on first time round it'll save you lots of headaches later. The engine being one that you are already sorting. SC46 would be choice, but as I told others before on the hatch Facebook forum, there is a S215 for sale for around £500 which are awesome Turbo's.

Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

Found it, the sale has nothing to do with me, I'm not endorsing it, just merely pointing out it's a good deal for a good 500bhp

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F 302750198167

This was a classic I ran with the same earlier model albeit it was billeted. Best ask Engine Tuner for info first of you are interested....

https://youtu.be/D1oZ11EFJ04

Sorry for all the videos, just trying to help you decide...

sonic93

iTrader: (16)

Rob what power was that Blobeye?

CJPow

No need for the apologies, I’m enjoying them!

Scoobyclinic suggested the SC42 but the SC46 isn’t really much difference in price so I’ll see what they say!

Ive just joined that group on FB, I didn’t know it existed!

johnlogie

iTrader: (4)

I run an S206B, great turbo. The thing to remember is also the lag you get with 500bhp of power. I don’t mind it as you know what to expect but it might be an issue for some. Personally I think 500 is hard to use on the road, can bit a bit scary sometimes

scoobypaul_temp

iTrader: (2)

I'm running 447 on a Blob Wagon - fully forged 2.5 with an (old style) MD321H with all supporting mods - I have to say, I love it. Perfect combination of torque/driveability without having to rag it all the time. Don't chase the numbers, 450 will be plenty with the right combination

Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

432/400 mate

heard the 42 is fantastic on the 2.5 but will run out of puff at 420bhp ~, yet the 46 is suited to the 2.5 and will offer more power and I doubt you would see little difference in spool.

Disagree with the lag, the billet I had (same turbo) on the 2.1 was great (running with headers), so I'd imagine it would be much better on the 2,35 and 2.5.