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Posers Cruise To Southend Seafront ~ Saturday 1st November

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Old Oct 18, 2008 | 08:00 AM
  #1  
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Tiny
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From: FPMSL It's only a FocaRSe !!!
Thumbs up Posers Cruise To Southend Seafront ~ Saturday 1st November











ESC POSERS CRUISE TO


SOUTHEND
SEAFRONT

Saturday 1st November 2008


ESC Nascar stylee of course 50mph




Meeting @ Tesco's Basildon ( Mayflower retail park ) A127 London bound from 7pm

A PINK SHIRT EVENT

WE LEAVE @ 8PM !!!!


DO'S & DON'TS FOR ALL POSERS

1. No doughnuts , flamefests or letting us hear how nice your exhaust sounds in Tescos car park . This is our home please don't abuse it .


2. Once on the move keep checking your mirrors & when other vehicles get stuck in the convoy please indicate & move over to lane 1 and let them filter through .


3. Once in two lanes try to keep in your lane & please indicate if you must change lane mid convoy .


4. Be ready for the "Underpass" slow down & launch ~ Ditto @ traffic lights .


5. When regrouping at the front drive all the way around the bend and DOUBLE PARK before the speed camera .


6. Pose ALL the way along the front past the Kursaal & double back @ the Thorpe Esplanade roundabout , If you wish to park up straight away without cruising the full loop , Please stay @ the back after the re group @ the Westcliff end & let the main group carry on to complete the full POSERS CRUISE


7. Get yourself a two way radio set to Channel 1 . ONLY to be used for shepherding the convoy . Use another channel if you want to play .


8. Fixed Cameras ~ Traffic Units ~ Mobile Cameras ~ You have been warned .



Above all have fun & enjoy



Please sign in below

1. Flat Eric ( Lead Car )

2.Tiny

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

10.


Reply
Old Oct 18, 2008 | 10:22 AM
  #2  
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From: Back in Diesel wonderland - 3.0 TDi Quattro A4, with more toys than Ann Summers...lol
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ESC POSERS CRUISE TO


SOUTHEND
SEAFRONT

Saturday 1st November 2008


ESC Nascar stylee of course 50mph




Meeting @ Tesco's Basildon ( Mayflower retail park ) A127 London bound from 7pm

A PINK SHIRT EVENT

WE LEAVE @ 8PM !!!!


DO'S & DON'TS FOR ALL POSERS

1. No doughnuts , flamefests or letting us hear how nice your exhaust sounds in Tescos car park . This is our home please don't abuse it .


2. Once on the move keep checking your mirrors & when other vehicles get stuck in the convoy please indicate & move over to lane 1 and let them filter through .


3. Once in two lanes try to keep in your lane & please indicate if you must change lane mid convoy .


4. Be ready for the "Underpass" slow down & launch ~ Ditto @ traffic lights .


5. When regrouping at the front drive all the way around the bend and DOUBLE PARK before the speed camera .


6. Pose ALL the way along the front past the Kursaal & double back @ the Thorpe Esplanade roundabout , If you wish to park up straight away without cruising the full loop , Please stay @ the back after the re group @ the Westcliff end & let the main group carry on to complete the full POSERS CRUISE


7. Get yourself a two way radio set to Channel 1 . ONLY to be used for shepherding the convoy . Use another channel if you want to play .


8. Fixed Cameras ~ Traffic Units ~ Mobile Cameras ~ You have been warned .



Above all have fun & enjoy



Please sign in below

1. Flat Eric ( Lead Car )

2.Tiny

3. S600B_DC

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

10.


Reply
Old Oct 18, 2008 | 10:34 AM
  #3  
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TomR555
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Will be there,realy enjoyed the last one and was good to meet some of you guys
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Old Oct 18, 2008 | 10:35 AM
  #4  
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wozzaa
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From: Essex
Default











ESC POSERS CRUISE TO


SOUTHEND
SEAFRONT

Saturday 1st November 2008


ESC Nascar stylee of course 50mph




Meeting @ Tesco's Basildon ( Mayflower retail park ) A127 London bound from 7pm

A PINK SHIRT EVENT

WE LEAVE @ 8PM !!!!


DO'S & DON'TS FOR ALL POSERS

1. No doughnuts , flamefests or letting us hear how nice your exhaust sounds in Tescos car park . This is our home please don't abuse it .


2. Once on the move keep checking your mirrors & when other vehicles get stuck in the convoy please indicate & move over to lane 1 and let them filter through .


3. Once in two lanes try to keep in your lane & please indicate if you must change lane mid convoy .


4. Be ready for the "Underpass" slow down & launch ~ Ditto @ traffic lights .


5. When regrouping at the front drive all the way around the bend and DOUBLE PARK before the speed camera .


6. Pose ALL the way along the front past the Kursaal & double back @ the Thorpe Esplanade roundabout , If you wish to park up straight away without cruising the full loop , Please stay @ the back after the re group @ the Westcliff end & let the main group carry on to complete the full POSERS CRUISE


7. Get yourself a two way radio set to Channel 1 . ONLY to be used for shepherding the convoy . Use another channel if you want to play .


8. Fixed Cameras ~ Traffic Units ~ Mobile Cameras ~ You have been warned .



Above all have fun & enjoy



Please sign in below

1. Flat Eric ( Lead Car )

2.Tiny

3. S600B_DC

4. Wozzaa

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

10.


Reply
Old Oct 18, 2008 | 10:40 AM
  #5  
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Time to catch up on the tunnel run gossip
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Old Oct 18, 2008 | 10:40 AM
  #6  
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From: England
Default











ESC POSERS CRUISE TO


SOUTHEND
SEAFRONT

Saturday 1st November 2008


ESC Nascar stylee of course 50mph




Meeting @ Tesco's Basildon ( Mayflower retail park ) A127 London bound from 7pm

A PINK SHIRT EVENT

WE LEAVE @ 8PM !!!!


DO'S & DON'TS FOR ALL POSERS

1. No doughnuts , flamefests or letting us hear how nice your exhaust sounds in Tescos car park . This is our home please don't abuse it .


2. Once on the move keep checking your mirrors & when other vehicles get stuck in the convoy please indicate & move over to lane 1 and let them filter through .


3. Once in two lanes try to keep in your lane & please indicate if you must change lane mid convoy .


4. Be ready for the "Underpass" slow down & launch ~ Ditto @ traffic lights .


5. When regrouping at the front drive all the way around the bend and DOUBLE PARK before the speed camera .


6. Pose ALL the way along the front past the Kursaal & double back @ the Thorpe Esplanade roundabout , If you wish to park up straight away without cruising the full loop , Please stay @ the back after the re group @ the Westcliff end & let the main group carry on to complete the full POSERS CRUISE


7. Get yourself a two way radio set to Channel 1 . ONLY to be used for shepherding the convoy . Use another channel if you want to play .


8. Fixed Cameras ~ Traffic Units ~ Mobile Cameras ~ You have been warned .



Above all have fun & enjoy



Please sign in below

1. Flat Eric ( Lead Car )

2.Tiny

3. S600B_DC

4. Milamber

5. Wozzaa

6.

7.

8.

9.

10.


Reply
Old Oct 18, 2008 | 10:44 AM
  #7  
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can one of you gents add me to the list plz
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Old Oct 18, 2008 | 11:32 AM
  #8  
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From: On the outside, looking in.
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ESC POSERS CRUISE TO


SOUTHEND
SEAFRONT

Saturday 1st November 2008


ESC Nascar stylee of course 50mph




Meeting @ Tesco's Basildon ( Mayflower retail park ) A127 London bound from 7pm

A PINK SHIRT EVENT

WE LEAVE @ 8PM !!!!


DO'S & DON'TS FOR ALL POSERS

1. No doughnuts , flamefests or letting us hear how nice your exhaust sounds in Tescos car park . This is our home please don't abuse it .


2. Once on the move keep checking your mirrors & when other vehicles get stuck in the convoy please indicate & move over to lane 1 and let them filter through .


3. Once in two lanes try to keep in your lane & please indicate if you must change lane mid convoy .


4. Be ready for the "Underpass" slow down & launch ~ Ditto @ traffic lights .


5. When regrouping at the front drive all the way around the bend and DOUBLE PARK before the speed camera .


6. Pose ALL the way along the front past the Kursaal & double back @ the Thorpe Esplanade roundabout , If you wish to park up straight away without cruising the full loop , Please stay @ the back after the re group @ the Westcliff end & let the main group carry on to complete the full POSERS CRUISE


7. Get yourself a two way radio set to Channel 1 . ONLY to be used for shepherding the convoy . Use another channel if you want to play .


8. Fixed Cameras ~ Traffic Units ~ Mobile Cameras ~ You have been warned .



Above all have fun & enjoy



Please sign in below

1. Flat Eric ( Lead Car )

2.Tiny

3. S600B_DC

4. BRI4N

5. Milamber

6. Wozzaa

7. TomR555

8.

9.

10.


Reply
Old Oct 18, 2008 | 11:37 AM
  #9  
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wozzaa
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Posts: 2,128
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From: Essex
Default

ESC POSERS CRUISE TO


SOUTHEND
SEAFRONT

Saturday 1st November 2008


ESC Nascar stylee of course 50mph




Meeting @ Tesco's Basildon ( Mayflower retail park ) A127 London bound from 7pm

A PINK SHIRT EVENT


WE LEAVE @ 8PM !!!!


DO'S & DON'TS FOR ALL POSERS

1. No doughnuts , flamefests or letting us hear how nice your exhaust sounds in Tescos car park . This is our home please don't abuse it .


2. Once on the move keep checking your mirrors & when other vehicles get stuck in the convoy please indicate & move over to lane 1 and let them filter through .


3. Once in two lanes try to keep in your lane & please indicate if you must change lane mid convoy .


4. Be ready for the "Underpass" slow down & launch ~ Ditto @ traffic lights .


5. When regrouping at the front drive all the way around the bend and DOUBLE PARK before the speed camera .


6. Pose ALL the way along the front past the Kursaal & double back @ the Thorpe Esplanade roundabout , If you wish to park up straight away without cruising the full loop , Please stay @ the back after the re group @ the Westcliff end & let the main group carry on to complete the full POSERS CRUISE


7. Get yourself a two way radio set to Channel 1 . ONLY to be used for shepherding the convoy . Use another channel if you want to play .


8. Fixed Cameras ~ Traffic Units ~ Mobile Cameras ~ You have been warned .



Above all have fun & enjoy



Please sign in below

1. Flat Eric ( Lead Car )

2.Tiny

3. S600B_DC

4. Wozzaa

5. BRI4N

6. Milamber

7. TomR555

8.

9.

10.
Reply
Old Oct 18, 2008 | 01:15 PM
  #10  
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thanks mate
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Old Oct 20, 2008 | 07:26 PM
  #11  
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Can someone put me on the list please thank you
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Old Oct 20, 2008 | 07:38 PM
  #12  
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Tiny
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From: FPMSL It's only a FocaRSe !!!
Default

ESC POSERS CRUISE TO



SOUTHEND
SEAFRONT

Saturday 1st November 2008


ESC Nascar stylee of course 50mph




Meeting @ Tesco's Basildon ( Mayflower retail park ) A127 London bound from 7pm

A PINK SHIRT EVENT

WE LEAVE @ 8PM !!!!


DO'S & DON'TS FOR ALL POSERS


1. No doughnuts , flamefests or letting us hear how nice your exhaust sounds in Tescos car park . This is our home please don't abuse it .


2. Once on the move keep checking your mirrors & when other vehicles get stuck in the convoy please indicate & move over to lane 1 and let them filter through .


3. Once in two lanes try to keep in your lane & please indicate if you must change lane mid convoy .


4. Be ready for the "Underpass" slow down & launch ~ Ditto @ traffic lights .


5. When regrouping at the front drive all the way around the bend and DOUBLE PARK before the speed camera .


6. Pose ALL the way along the front past the Kursaal & double back @ the Thorpe Esplanade roundabout , If you wish to park up straight away without cruising the full loop , Please stay @ the back after the re group @ the Westcliff end & let the main group carry on to complete the full POSERS CRUISE


7. Get yourself a two way radio set to Channel 1 . ONLY to be used for shepherding the convoy . Use another channel if you want to play .


8. Fixed Cameras ~ Traffic Units ~ Mobile Cameras ~ You have been warned .



Above all have fun & enjoy



Please sign in below

1. Flat Eric ( Lead Car )

2.Tiny

3. S600B_DC

4. Wozzaa

5. BRI4N

6. Milamber

7. TomR555

8.lollyMccray

9.


10.
Reply
Old Oct 20, 2008 | 09:17 PM
  #13  
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FLAT ERIC
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From: You only live ONCE But if you do it right >>>>> ONCE is enough
Smile

Wozzaa, BRI4N, Milamber

There's more shuffling going on than in a game of Poker.

Mark
Reply
Old Oct 22, 2008 | 04:16 AM
  #14  
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From: Essex
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ESC POSERS CRUISE TO



SOUTHEND
SEAFRONT

Saturday 1st November 2008


ESC Nascar stylee of course 50mph




Meeting @ Tesco's Basildon ( Mayflower retail park ) A127 London bound from 7pm

A PINK SHIRT EVENT

WE LEAVE @ 8PM !!!!


DO'S & DON'TS FOR ALL POSERS


1. No doughnuts , flamefests or letting us hear how nice your exhaust sounds in Tescos car park . This is our home please don't abuse it .


2. Once on the move keep checking your mirrors & when other vehicles get stuck in the convoy please indicate & move over to lane 1 and let them filter through .


3. Once in two lanes try to keep in your lane & please indicate if you must change lane mid convoy .


4. Be ready for the "Underpass" slow down & launch ~ Ditto @ traffic lights .


5. When regrouping at the front drive all the way around the bend and DOUBLE PARK before the speed camera .


6. Pose ALL the way along the front past the Kursaal & double back @ the Thorpe Esplanade roundabout , If you wish to park up straight away without cruising the full loop , Please stay @ the back after the re group @ the Westcliff end & let the main group carry on to complete the full POSERS CRUISE


7. Get yourself a two way radio set to Channel 1 . ONLY to be used for shepherding the convoy . Use another channel if you want to play .


8. Fixed Cameras ~ Traffic Units ~ Mobile Cameras ~ You have been warned .



Above all have fun & enjoy



Please sign in below

1. Flat Eric ( Lead Car )

2.Tiny

3. S600B_DC

4. Wozzaa

5. BRI4N

6. Milamber

7. TomR555

8.lollyMccray

9.Paul&bon


10.
Reply
Old Oct 26, 2008 | 08:43 PM
  #15  
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SCOTT1E
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From: Herts
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ESC POSERS CRUISE TO




SOUTHEND
SEAFRONT

Saturday 1st November 2008


ESC Nascar stylee of course 50mph




Meeting @ Tesco's Basildon ( Mayflower retail park ) A127 London bound from 7pm

A PINK SHIRT EVENT

WE LEAVE @ 8PM !!!!


DO'S & DON'TS FOR ALL POSERS


1. No doughnuts , flamefests or letting us hear how nice your exhaust sounds in Tescos car park . This is our home please don't abuse it .


2. Once on the move keep checking your mirrors & when other vehicles get stuck in the convoy please indicate & move over to lane 1 and let them filter through .


3. Once in two lanes try to keep in your lane & please indicate if you must change lane mid convoy .


4. Be ready for the "Underpass" slow down & launch ~ Ditto @ traffic lights .


5. When regrouping at the front drive all the way around the bend and DOUBLE PARK before the speed camera .


6. Pose ALL the way along the front past the Kursaal & double back @ the Thorpe Esplanade roundabout , If you wish to park up straight away without cruising the full loop , Please stay @ the back after the re group @ the Westcliff end & let the main group carry on to complete the full POSERS CRUISE


7. Get yourself a two way radio set to Channel 1 . ONLY to be used for shepherding the convoy . Use another channel if you want to play .


8. Fixed Cameras ~ Traffic Units ~ Mobile Cameras ~ You have been warned .



Above all have fun & enjoy



Please sign in below

1. Flat Eric ( Lead Car )

2.Tiny

3. S600B_DC

4. Wozzaa

5. BRI4N

6. Milamber

7. TomR555

8.lollyMccray

9.Paul&bon

10. Scottie

Last edited by Tiny; Oct 26, 2008 at 08:55 PM.
Reply
Old Oct 29, 2008 | 02:19 AM
  #16  
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itzjoolz
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Im thinking of joining you guys for the night.
Im comming from Northmpton but Im originally from Essex and often down at the weekends.
Ok ive read the rules, be nice to Tesco, radio at the ready just one snag
No pink shirt! Is it a necessity?
Reply
Old Oct 29, 2008 | 05:43 PM
  #17  
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From: Back in Diesel wonderland - 3.0 TDi Quattro A4, with more toys than Ann Summers...lol
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Only if you want to look as silly as everyone else
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Old Oct 29, 2008 | 08:21 PM
  #18  
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itzjoolz
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Ill see if me nans got anything suitable then
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Old Oct 30, 2008 | 02:41 AM
  #19  
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Tissy
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 984
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From: Harlow, Essex
Default

ESC POSERS CRUISE TO


SOUTHEND
SEAFRONT

Saturday 1st November 2008


ESC Nascar stylee of course 50mph




Meeting @ Tesco's Basildon ( Mayflower retail park ) A127 London bound from 7pm

A PINK SHIRT EVENT

WE LEAVE @ 8PM !!!!


DO'S & DON'TS FOR ALL POSERS

1. No doughnuts , flamefests or letting us hear how nice your exhaust sounds in Tescos car park . This is our home please don't abuse it .


2. Once on the move keep checking your mirrors & when other vehicles get stuck in the convoy please indicate & move over to lane 1 and let them filter through .



3. Once in two lanes try to keep in your lane & please indicate if you must change lane mid convoy .


4. Be ready for the "Underpass" slow down & launch ~ Ditto @ traffic lights .


5. When regrouping at the front drive all the way around the bend and DOUBLE PARK before the speed camera .


6. Pose ALL the way along the front past the Kursaal & double back @ the Thorpe Esplanade roundabout , If you wish to park up straight away without cruising the full loop , Please stay @ the back after the re group @ the Westcliff end & let the main group carry on to complete the full POSERS CRUISE


7. Get yourself a two way radio set to Channel 1 . ONLY to be used for shepherding the convoy . Use another channel if you want to play .


8. Fixed Cameras ~ Traffic Units ~ Mobile Cameras ~ You have been warned .



Above all have fun & enjoy



Please sign in below

1. Flat Eric ( Lead Car )

2.Tiny

3. S600B_DC

4. Wozzaa

5. BRI4N

6. Milamber

7. TomR555

8.lollyMccray

9.Paul&bon

10. Scottie

11. TISSY (In "works" car with Special guest )
Reply
Old Oct 30, 2008 | 08:59 AM
  #20  
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Ms Gooner 1
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From: aka Ms Trouble !! LOL
Default

ESC POSERS CRUISE TO


SOUTHEND
SEAFRONT

Saturday 1st November 2008


ESC Nascar stylee of course 50mph




Meeting @ Tesco's Basildon ( Mayflower retail park ) A127 London bound from 7pm

A PINK SHIRT EVENT

WE LEAVE @ 8PM !!!!


DO'S & DON'TS FOR ALL POSERS

1. No doughnuts , flamefests or letting us hear how nice your exhaust sounds in Tescos car park . This is our home please don't abuse it .


2. Once on the move keep checking your mirrors & when other vehicles get stuck in the convoy please indicate & move over to lane 1 and let them filter through .



3. Once in two lanes try to keep in your lane & please indicate if you must change lane mid convoy .


4. Be ready for the "Underpass" slow down & launch ~ Ditto @ traffic lights .


5. When regrouping at the front drive all the way around the bend and DOUBLE PARK before the speed camera .


6. Pose ALL the way along the front past the Kursaal & double back @ the Thorpe Esplanade roundabout , If you wish to park up straight away without cruising the full loop , Please stay @ the back after the re group @ the Westcliff end & let the main group carry on to complete the full POSERS CRUISE


7. Get yourself a two way radio set to Channel 1 . ONLY to be used for shepherding the convoy . Use another channel if you want to play .


8. Fixed Cameras ~ Traffic Units ~ Mobile Cameras ~ You have been warned .



Above all have fun & enjoy



Please sign in below

1. Flat Eric ( Lead Car )

2.Tiny

3. S600B_DC

4. Wozzaa

5. BRI4N

6. Milamber

7. TomR555

8.lollyMccray

9.Paul&bon

10. Scottie

11. TISSY (In "works" car with Special guest )

12. Gooner
Reply
Old Oct 30, 2008 | 10:11 AM
  #21  
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lianneWRX
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Are noobs welcome?
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Old Oct 30, 2008 | 05:49 PM
  #22  
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FLAT ERIC
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From: You only live ONCE But if you do it right >>>>> ONCE is enough
Smile

Originally Posted by Tissy @ 1.41

11. TISSY (In "works" car with Special guest )
1.41 !!! Looks like you got the graveyard shift mate.

I'll break out my new camera for this Special guest then.

Mark

Last edited by FLAT ERIC; Oct 30, 2008 at 05:58 PM.
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Old Oct 30, 2008 | 05:56 PM
  #23  
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FLAT ERIC
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From: You only live ONCE But if you do it right >>>>> ONCE is enough
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Originally Posted by lianneWRX
Are noobs welcome?
But of course.

Join us for the drive down from Tescos or see us at the doughnut & tea emporium otherwise known as "Nic's Place".

Mark
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Old Oct 30, 2008 | 06:02 PM
  #24  
lianneWRX's Avatar
lianneWRX
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From: Basildon
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Im going to try and make it to this one, im trying to get a dog sitter for my 7 month old puppy! Horrid time of year to leave him as he is scared of fire works!

Otherwise ill defo keep my eyes open for the next one! new car now so wanna get to the meets!
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Old Oct 30, 2008 | 10:22 PM
  #25  
Tissy's Avatar
Tissy
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From: Harlow, Essex
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Bring him along, he may like Dognuts, sorry doughnuts
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Old Oct 30, 2008 | 10:35 PM
  #26  
Tiny's Avatar
Tiny
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From: FPMSL It's only a FocaRSe !!!
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Originally Posted by FLAT ERIC

I'll break out my new camera for this Special guest then.

Mark

She's worth it Dad
Reply
Old Oct 30, 2008 | 10:56 PM
  #27  
Milamber's Avatar
Milamber
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Posts: 18,358
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From: England
Default

ESC POSERS CRUISE TO


SOUTHEND
SEAFRONT

Saturday 1st November 2008


ESC Nascar stylee of course 50mph




Meeting @ Tesco's Basildon ( Mayflower retail park ) A127 London bound from 7pm

A PINK SHIRT EVENT

WE LEAVE @ 8PM !!!!


DO'S & DON'TS FOR ALL POSERS

1. No doughnuts , flamefests or letting us hear how nice your exhaust sounds in Tescos car park . This is our home please don't abuse it .


2. Once on the move keep checking your mirrors & when other vehicles get stuck in the convoy please indicate & move over to lane 1 and let them filter through .



3. Once in two lanes try to keep in your lane & please indicate if you must change lane mid convoy .


4. Be ready for the "Underpass" slow down & launch ~ Ditto @ traffic lights .


5. When regrouping at the front drive all the way around the bend and DOUBLE PARK before the speed camera .


6. Pose ALL the way along the front past the Kursaal & double back @ the Thorpe Esplanade roundabout , If you wish to park up straight away without cruising the full loop , Please stay @ the back after the re group @ the Westcliff end & let the main group carry on to complete the full POSERS CRUISE


7. Get yourself a two way radio set to Channel 1 . ONLY to be used for shepherding the convoy . Use another channel if you want to play .


8. Fixed Cameras ~ Traffic Units ~ Mobile Cameras ~ You have been warned .



Above all have fun & enjoy



Please sign in below

1. Flat Eric ( Lead Car )

2.Tiny

3. S600B_DC

4. Milamber

5. BRI4N

6. Wozzaa

7. TomR555

8.lollyMccray

9.Paul&bon

10. Scottie

11. TISSY (In "works" car with Special guest )

12. Gooner

12a. LianneWRX
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Old Oct 30, 2008 | 11:03 PM
  #28  
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Diesel_DC
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From: Back in Diesel wonderland - 3.0 TDi Quattro A4, with more toys than Ann Summers...lol
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Chris will you have TR 2007 dvd's on you at the posers?
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Old Oct 30, 2008 | 11:09 PM
  #29  
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Milamber
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From: England
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Originally Posted by S600B_DC
Chris will you have TR 2007 dvd's on you at the posers?

Wozzaa has them on him at the moment

Bring cash, we have previous years DVD's too
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Old Oct 30, 2008 | 11:12 PM
  #30  
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Diesel_DC
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From: Back in Diesel wonderland - 3.0 TDi Quattro A4, with more toys than Ann Summers...lol
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Originally Posted by Milamber
Wozzaa has them on him at the moment

Bring cash, we have previous years DVD's too


Only want last years got all the others
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