Sc36 vs a vf35
13 June 2019, 10:46 PM
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Sc36 vs a vf35
I currently running standard car . I have sti topmount and pink injectors and a 225 pump and a full 3inc exhust system to go on the car and pannel filter. I can't dicide on wat turbo to get tho . I dont want a laggy turbo . I thinking a vf35 or a sc36 cause later on I'll be building it and I'll be fit to turn up the sc36. . Any one have a idea on spool time or when you have full boost. On each turbo with these mods? My car atm is wrx ppp pack tdo4 as standard I guess. The td04 has me spoiled with no lag 😂
14 June 2019, 09:33 AM
#2
What year car? Is it a 2.0 or a 2.5 engine?
As your car is a WRX when you upgrade to either of these turbos you get to the point of gearbox failure. The Hawkeye 06-07 WRX 5 speed gearbox is much stronger than the older 2.0L engine versions so will cope with 400bhp and similar torque, but the older gearboxes won't last too long at 350bhp which will be your target on both of those turbos realistically.
Rather than going down the SC36 route, why don't you contact a turbo builder like Craig Belworthy at Central Turbos who can provide you with a fully rebuilt turbo with a billet compressor wheel conversion for £550.
If 2.0L engine then I's suggest billet VF35 and if 2.5 later engine than I'd suggest billet VF48 turbo.
With the 2.5 engines, once you raise the boost there is a very realistic chance the head gaskets will let go or you'll promote the ringland failure issue and you'll need a full rebuild. So be careful, you have been warned!
As your car is a WRX when you upgrade to either of these turbos you get to the point of gearbox failure. The Hawkeye 06-07 WRX 5 speed gearbox is much stronger than the older 2.0L engine versions so will cope with 400bhp and similar torque, but the older gearboxes won't last too long at 350bhp which will be your target on both of those turbos realistically.
Rather than going down the SC36 route, why don't you contact a turbo builder like Craig Belworthy at Central Turbos who can provide you with a fully rebuilt turbo with a billet compressor wheel conversion for £550.
If 2.0L engine then I's suggest billet VF35 and if 2.5 later engine than I'd suggest billet VF48 turbo.
With the 2.5 engines, once you raise the boost there is a very realistic chance the head gaskets will let go or you'll promote the ringland failure issue and you'll need a full rebuild. So be careful, you have been warned!
14 June 2019, 10:42 AM
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What year car? Is it a 2.0 or a 2.5 engine?
As your car is a WRX when you upgrade to either of these turbos you get to the point of gearbox failure. The Hawkeye 06-07 WRX 5 speed gearbox is much stronger than the older 2.0L engine versions so will cope with 400bhp and similar torque, but the older gearboxes won't last too long at 350bhp which will be your target on both of those turbos realistically.
Rather than going down the SC36 route, why don't you contact a turbo builder like Craig Belworthy at Central Turbos who can provide you with a fully rebuilt turbo with a billet compressor wheel conversion for £550.
If 2.0L engine then I's suggest billet VF35 and if 2.5 later engine than I'd suggest billet VF48 turbo.
With the 2.5 engines, once you raise the boost there is a very realistic chance the head gaskets will let go or you'll promote the ringland failure issue and you'll need a full rebuild. So be careful, you have been warned!
As your car is a WRX when you upgrade to either of these turbos you get to the point of gearbox failure. The Hawkeye 06-07 WRX 5 speed gearbox is much stronger than the older 2.0L engine versions so will cope with 400bhp and similar torque, but the older gearboxes won't last too long at 350bhp which will be your target on both of those turbos realistically.
Rather than going down the SC36 route, why don't you contact a turbo builder like Craig Belworthy at Central Turbos who can provide you with a fully rebuilt turbo with a billet compressor wheel conversion for £550.
If 2.0L engine then I's suggest billet VF35 and if 2.5 later engine than I'd suggest billet VF48 turbo.
With the 2.5 engines, once you raise the boost there is a very realistic chance the head gaskets will let go or you'll promote the ringland failure issue and you'll need a full rebuild. So be careful, you have been warned!
14 June 2019, 11:10 AM
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Yeah could be best way for now . . Wonder when you have full boost on a vf35 with that set 🤔. I was reading ones with my set up. have full boost at 4200 rpms and 3900 . That's why long to wait 😂🤔
14 June 2019, 04:02 PM
#7
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I recently swapped from a TD0516G to the SC36 for my MY 05 WRX , in my view the SC36 develops torque earlier than the TD0516G of course if you are used to a TD04 then you will not have quiet the same response , but it is a good step up.
Brown pants has this all leveled for a gear box disarster , and to be fair many here will agree with him. But you should remember that it is torque that kills gear boxes and not bhp. so to a certain extent the capability of the gearbox to handle a turbo that will reach 350-360 bhp ( the Sc36 can only reach 360bhp with all appropriate mods ) will depend on how you map the ECU , If you go all out for 1,5 bar of boost at 3500 rpm then yes I can imagine a higher wear rate and evtl failure. If however you ask your mapper to call for say 1,2 bar till say 4000 rpm then you can protect your gear box and yet still have very decent performance. The point about the 2.0 is that it really needs to have forged pistons fitted , i have used in the past Sti pistons on the TD05 16g and these were perfectly ok , for a couple of years , until i had a problem with them expanding faster than the cylinder walls in very cold weather and causing a big end failure and scuff on all 4 bores. I have now changed to a semi closed deck and use Mahle pistons with more ring clearance than the Sti pistons had.
I dont' have experience of the VF35 but it is supposed to spool well enough , I choose the SC36 as it is basically a Blouch design that has a 30% lighter wheel , in my case i have combined this with a Harvey uppipe of middle size diameter and have kept a top mount IC and some mild head chamber work in order to get spooled up a bit quicker. I use a 3 inch 200 cpi cat , 3 port , 255 FP, 550cc Injectors. The combination of these mods with the new SC36 turbo, produces a much better drivability than with the TD05 16G. The down side is the cost of the turbo of course.
I think the TD04 Hybrid option could be a good alternative if you want the low down torque, but either way you go don't exoect your 5 speed to handle 1/4 mile starts for ever , as it wont. If you want a bit of a fuse in the drivetrain , you might consider only going to the Exceedy blue clutch. This I find has a less agressive bite than the Pink which lots use for >400 bhp of course it won't last as long , but mine has done 30 k and looked fine last time when I replaced the engine in jan .
Hope this helps
Brown pants has this all leveled for a gear box disarster , and to be fair many here will agree with him. But you should remember that it is torque that kills gear boxes and not bhp. so to a certain extent the capability of the gearbox to handle a turbo that will reach 350-360 bhp ( the Sc36 can only reach 360bhp with all appropriate mods ) will depend on how you map the ECU , If you go all out for 1,5 bar of boost at 3500 rpm then yes I can imagine a higher wear rate and evtl failure. If however you ask your mapper to call for say 1,2 bar till say 4000 rpm then you can protect your gear box and yet still have very decent performance. The point about the 2.0 is that it really needs to have forged pistons fitted , i have used in the past Sti pistons on the TD05 16g and these were perfectly ok , for a couple of years , until i had a problem with them expanding faster than the cylinder walls in very cold weather and causing a big end failure and scuff on all 4 bores. I have now changed to a semi closed deck and use Mahle pistons with more ring clearance than the Sti pistons had.
I dont' have experience of the VF35 but it is supposed to spool well enough , I choose the SC36 as it is basically a Blouch design that has a 30% lighter wheel , in my case i have combined this with a Harvey uppipe of middle size diameter and have kept a top mount IC and some mild head chamber work in order to get spooled up a bit quicker. I use a 3 inch 200 cpi cat , 3 port , 255 FP, 550cc Injectors. The combination of these mods with the new SC36 turbo, produces a much better drivability than with the TD05 16G. The down side is the cost of the turbo of course.
I think the TD04 Hybrid option could be a good alternative if you want the low down torque, but either way you go don't exoect your 5 speed to handle 1/4 mile starts for ever , as it wont. If you want a bit of a fuse in the drivetrain , you might consider only going to the Exceedy blue clutch. This I find has a less agressive bite than the Pink which lots use for >400 bhp of course it won't last as long , but mine has done 30 k and looked fine last time when I replaced the engine in jan .
Hope this helps
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14 June 2019, 04:20 PM
#8
I'm not peddling gearbox failure, but it is a fact. Any of the turbos in question with the exception of the TD04 will make around 350bhp which on a 2.0L engine will make similar torque levels 350lb/ft as we know. At those torque levels the 2.0L WRX 5 speed box will not realistically last too long. The Hawkeye WRX 5 speed is slightly stronger but that doesn't really help the OP.
Thankfully, as it's a 2.0L engine than the failures I mentioned of head gasket and ringland are pretty much non-existent so that's a big benefit. With a standard WRX I wouldn't really be considering anything like the SC36 as it can push well above these levels and considering the amount of other things the OP has to upgrade here it's just another grand on top of a good VF35 turbo that will do just as well realistically.
As above, bear in mind the clutch may also be at its limits and the injectors will need changing fro the standard 440's currently fitted to STI 550 injectors.
Thankfully, as it's a 2.0L engine than the failures I mentioned of head gasket and ringland are pretty much non-existent so that's a big benefit. With a standard WRX I wouldn't really be considering anything like the SC36 as it can push well above these levels and considering the amount of other things the OP has to upgrade here it's just another grand on top of a good VF35 turbo that will do just as well realistically.
As above, bear in mind the clutch may also be at its limits and the injectors will need changing fro the standard 440's currently fitted to STI 550 injectors.
14 June 2019, 04:40 PM
#9
Scooby Regular
True, and in my case I m going to be looking for a Re-map that gives me a nice 330lb/ft and then hold / increase at the higher rev range.
The clutch idea threw in as it will be softer on the box.
The clutch idea threw in as it will be softer on the box.
26 June 2019, 09:12 PM
#11
It depends on how far you want to go with it ,
but there’s lots to think about , have you done top and bottom scoops if ruining an Sti cooler ?
Plugs to grade 7s , clutch mine was looking very worn with stick power all life, up pipe decatted ? And not the eBay 2inch version ,
personally i run a billet vf30 from Craig and have done all the correct mods to run the max safely as can be for a ej205 but it’s a little laggy for a daily I have full boost at 3500rpm and it’s very hard hitting and strong but the uk gearbox is so long I think I’d rather have a td04 hybrid 320hp is safe level, fast and makes for a very good road car. Wish I’d gone this route.
but there’s lots to think about , have you done top and bottom scoops if ruining an Sti cooler ?
Plugs to grade 7s , clutch mine was looking very worn with stick power all life, up pipe decatted ? And not the eBay 2inch version ,
personally i run a billet vf30 from Craig and have done all the correct mods to run the max safely as can be for a ej205 but it’s a little laggy for a daily I have full boost at 3500rpm and it’s very hard hitting and strong but the uk gearbox is so long I think I’d rather have a td04 hybrid 320hp is safe level, fast and makes for a very good road car. Wish I’d gone this route.
27 June 2019, 08:51 AM
#12
Scooby Regular
It depends on how far you want to go with it ,
but there’s lots to think about , have you done top and bottom scoops if ruining an Sti cooler ?
Plugs to grade 7s , clutch mine was looking very worn with stick power all life, up pipe decatted ? And not the eBay 2inch version ,
personally i run a billet vf30 from Craig and have done all the correct mods to run the max safely as can be for a ej205 but it’s a little laggy for a daily I have full boost at 3500rpm and it’s very hard hitting and strong but the uk gearbox is so long I think I’d rather have a td04 hybrid 320hp is safe level, fast and makes for a very good road car. Wish I’d gone this route.
but there’s lots to think about , have you done top and bottom scoops if ruining an Sti cooler ?
Plugs to grade 7s , clutch mine was looking very worn with stick power all life, up pipe decatted ? And not the eBay 2inch version ,
personally i run a billet vf30 from Craig and have done all the correct mods to run the max safely as can be for a ej205 but it’s a little laggy for a daily I have full boost at 3500rpm and it’s very hard hitting and strong but the uk gearbox is so long I think I’d rather have a td04 hybrid 320hp is safe level, fast and makes for a very good road car. Wish I’d gone this route.
21 July 2019, 10:49 AM
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@Jonnylk prodrive - if you've settled on the VF35 and haven't got one yet I'll be taking the one off mine in a few weeks and selling it - handy thing is I'm actually from Moville so could take it home with me on the flight. I bought it for £320 just three months ago when I was replacing the engine (done maybe 1,500 miles max for me) and it works well for me anyway but I'm just going for more now. Only looking for £250 for it. I don't know much about the history of it but it came from a car that had a massive spec (have pics of the engine bay and you can see the guy knew what he was at!) and the guy was just going for more as well - bought it through some Subaru group or other on Facebook.
If you're interested sure PM me and I'll send on my number and some pics of it when it's taken out which won't be until first week of August.
If you're interested sure PM me and I'll send on my number and some pics of it when it's taken out which won't be until first week of August.
15 August 2019, 08:50 AM
#14
Scooby Regular
I currently running standard car . I have sti topmount and pink injectors and a 225 pump and a full 3inc exhust system to go on the car and pannel filter. I can't dicide on wat turbo to get tho . I dont want a laggy turbo . I thinking a vf35 or a sc36 cause later on I'll be building it and I'll be fit to turn up the sc36. . Any one have a idea on spool time or when you have full boost. On each turbo with these mods? My car atm is wrx ppp pack tdo4 as standard I guess. The td04 has me spoiled with no lag ��
Sorry about delay in putting this SC36 Curve up but I have just had the car back from the Mapper's Plymouth UK engine tune.
I waited with this as I had been using the WRX Std IC the curve below now shows the Sti V7/8 Intercooler, which is IMHO the right modification path for the WRX.
Although my short block is now a forged EJ207 the results achieved would apply to any EJ205 using WRX heads. The SC36 in this case was "limited" to 1,5 bar max
at my request , although I am sure it could make more boost. However I felt the 2005 WRX 5 speed gear box and Exeedy blue clutch should be protected ,
The Mapper agreed that 350lbft was the top limit for a 5 speed box in third gear so the consequent torque curve is "managed" to 330 FtLb at 4500rpm.
The TGV delete was done as one of my flap motors was unaccountably closing off at higher revs so rather than repair this we simply threw them out and mapped for the change. If the gearbox fails in the future then a 6 speed conversion would be sourced and on the forged EJ207 of course much more power could be developed at a later stage. For now I'm enjoying the car on Tesco / Shell 99. Im still not 100% on this as I am running a Prodrive Back box which might be a touch restrictive but it does a very good job on keeping the noise level acceptable so its staying, On a full 3 inch system you would see 200 lbft at 3500 and exceed 330 HP at 5750 rpm
I waited with this as I had been using the WRX Std IC the curve below now shows the Sti V7/8 Intercooler, which is IMHO the right modification path for the WRX.
Although my short block is now a forged EJ207 the results achieved would apply to any EJ205 using WRX heads. The SC36 in this case was "limited" to 1,5 bar max
at my request , although I am sure it could make more boost. However I felt the 2005 WRX 5 speed gear box and Exeedy blue clutch should be protected ,
The Mapper agreed that 350lbft was the top limit for a 5 speed box in third gear so the consequent torque curve is "managed" to 330 FtLb at 4500rpm.
The TGV delete was done as one of my flap motors was unaccountably closing off at higher revs so rather than repair this we simply threw them out and mapped for the change. If the gearbox fails in the future then a 6 speed conversion would be sourced and on the forged EJ207 of course much more power could be developed at a later stage. For now I'm enjoying the car on Tesco / Shell 99. Im still not 100% on this as I am running a Prodrive Back box which might be a touch restrictive but it does a very good job on keeping the noise level acceptable so its staying, On a full 3 inch system you would see 200 lbft at 3500 and exceed 330 HP at 5750 rpm
Last edited by Linksfahrer; 15 August 2019 at 09:06 AM. Reason: curve added
22 September 2019, 08:54 PM
#15
Scooby Regular
Some good info here guys thanks. My 02 bugeye wagon wrx has a vf35 and 550cc injectors.. I've just removed the vf35 and I'm taking it to get checked this week In Preston. I'm Trying to diagnose If the turbo is at fault or it's a bigger issue (I'll prob recore the turbo anyway for one less problem.. it's that or a ball bearing 28 series).. it was currently making boost at 4500 which sounds a bit laggy to me and the car was chuffing blueish smoke out the back which made me think engine.. except no mixing of oil and coolant in any of the engine. Anyway that's a bit of a sideways ramble lol but overall I found the vf35 to make a nice amount of punch even with just 280bhp so I'm quite happy if I had that and a good sorted handling
23 September 2019, 04:14 PM
#16
Scooby Regular
Some good info here guys thanks. My 02 bugeye wagon wrx has a vf35 and 550cc injectors.. I've just removed the vf35 and I'm taking it to get checked this week In Preston. I'm Trying to diagnose If the turbo is at fault or it's a bigger issue (I'll prob recore the turbo anyway for one less problem.. it's that or a ball bearing 28 series).. it was currently making boost at 4500 which sounds a bit laggy to me and the car was chuffing blueish smoke out the back which made me think engine.. except no mixing of oil and coolant in any of the engine. Anyway that's a bit of a sideways ramble lol but overall I found the vf35 to make a nice amount of punch even with just 280bhp so I'm quite happy if I had that and a good sorted handling
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