ESL - Rework 99 RON map for 95 RON fuel.
05 February 2018, 12:23 PM
#1
ESL - Rework 99 RON map for 95 RON fuel.
OK, so I've got several reasons for considering this... I moved house just over a year ago and am now finding I have to drive out of my way to get 99 RON petrol. I've got a 2-week family trip to France planned later on this year (half-way down the west coast) and finding special fuel is a hassle I don't want! I'm also on a bit of an 'economy drive' at the moment, trying to save money since we had our first child last year (and more importantly, trying to convince my other half that we should keep the Scoob, rather than change it for some dull and boring 'economical car' #manmaths).
At the moment I'm mapped for 99 RON petrol (Momentum/VPower) on a fairly 'safe' map around 250bhp and don't intend to mess with my current map. What I'm thinking of doing is to copy it to the 2nd map on my ESL and then reduce some of the parameters to make it suitable for 95 RON petrol.
I'm currently boosting to 1.3 bar. I presume this is the first thing I'll need to lower, and am aware that max wastegate duty is probably the table that'll need the most tweaking. What's a safe limit for 95 RON - 1 bar, 1.1 bar?
I guess I'll need to reduce my timing advances a bit too. Would it be sensible to use the timing tables from an 8S base map (which would have originally been intended for 95 RON) or just rework my current one? I seem to remember that it's not vastly different from the base map anyway.
I was intending to leave the fueling table alone, as presumably that shouldn't really need to change?
Anything I haven't considered? (other than my car will obviously be slower!)
TLDR: Current map is 99 RON on ESL. Want to adapt 2nd map to work with 95 RON.
At the moment I'm mapped for 99 RON petrol (Momentum/VPower) on a fairly 'safe' map around 250bhp and don't intend to mess with my current map. What I'm thinking of doing is to copy it to the 2nd map on my ESL and then reduce some of the parameters to make it suitable for 95 RON petrol.
I'm currently boosting to 1.3 bar. I presume this is the first thing I'll need to lower, and am aware that max wastegate duty is probably the table that'll need the most tweaking. What's a safe limit for 95 RON - 1 bar, 1.1 bar?
I guess I'll need to reduce my timing advances a bit too. Would it be sensible to use the timing tables from an 8S base map (which would have originally been intended for 95 RON) or just rework my current one? I seem to remember that it's not vastly different from the base map anyway.
I was intending to leave the fueling table alone, as presumably that shouldn't really need to change?
Anything I haven't considered? (other than my car will obviously be slower!)
TLDR: Current map is 99 RON on ESL. Want to adapt 2nd map to work with 95 RON.
07 February 2018, 08:55 AM
#2
Id say to create an economical map
Reduce min and max to 0 just run on wastegate
Fuelling will need to be altered as why have it rich when on no boost or much lower boost than before
Timing can be reduced more as again noboost or not as much boost
To be fair, you wont notice much difference maybe a couple of mpg`s saved
your current map is set to 1.3 bar with fuelling enriched etc etc yet if you dont use the loud pedal you wont use 1.3 bar and will always be in closed loop anyway when cruising so fuelling will be controlled by the 02
Reduce min and max to 0 just run on wastegate
Fuelling will need to be altered as why have it rich when on no boost or much lower boost than before
Timing can be reduced more as again noboost or not as much boost
To be fair, you wont notice much difference maybe a couple of mpg`s saved
your current map is set to 1.3 bar with fuelling enriched etc etc yet if you dont use the loud pedal you wont use 1.3 bar and will always be in closed loop anyway when cruising so fuelling will be controlled by the 02
Last edited by The Rig; 07 February 2018 at 09:06 AM.
07 February 2018, 09:37 AM
#3
if you want more economy, the main trick is don't push the pedal on the right so hard 
In the cruise region of the map (you can find this by logging) you then want to increase the timing there whilst listening to the det cans. At light loads you can push quite a bit of timing and that will equate to more MPG on a run.
If your wanting to adjust the map for 95, you can reduce the boost level, but also tweaks to the timing map and AFR/fuel table will be required as well. Or keep the boost the same as best you can and reduce timing/enrich mixture to keep the det monsters at bay. Of course if your injectors are close to max now then you'll definitely have to reduce the boost target to prevent them from going static.
Another option is to drop the IAM from it's current value (most likely 16) down to say 8 and then let the ECU re-learn on 95. Whatever value your IAM learns too will give you an idea on how much timing needs to be pulled from the base table to obtain knock free runs but again you'll have to be listening with the knock cans on to make sure you don't go too far with it.
In the cruise region of the map (you can find this by logging) you then want to increase the timing there whilst listening to the det cans. At light loads you can push quite a bit of timing and that will equate to more MPG on a run.
If your wanting to adjust the map for 95, you can reduce the boost level, but also tweaks to the timing map and AFR/fuel table will be required as well. Or keep the boost the same as best you can and reduce timing/enrich mixture to keep the det monsters at bay. Of course if your injectors are close to max now then you'll definitely have to reduce the boost target to prevent them from going static.
Another option is to drop the IAM from it's current value (most likely 16) down to say 8 and then let the ECU re-learn on 95. Whatever value your IAM learns too will give you an idea on how much timing needs to be pulled from the base table to obtain knock free runs but again you'll have to be listening with the knock cans on to make sure you don't go too far with it.
07 February 2018, 11:13 AM
#4
Cheers guys - that all sounds sensible.
It's not an 'economy' map I'm after, as such, although better economy's always a bonus. I know the boxer engine is never going to be that economical and I generally average around 28mpg anyway, which I reckon is pretty reasonable.
My main priority was being able to safely run 95 RON without having to rely on the engine's knock detection to protect me. I'm particularly aware when I take it to France in the summer, it'll be hot (hopefully), and the car will be fully loaded, weight-wise too - both of which won't help when it comes to knock.
The potential saving of 5p per litre (Ł3 per tank) was just an added bonus (and a way to help persuade the wife we should keep it!).
It's not an 'economy' map I'm after, as such, although better economy's always a bonus. I know the boxer engine is never going to be that economical and I generally average around 28mpg anyway, which I reckon is pretty reasonable.
My main priority was being able to safely run 95 RON without having to rely on the engine's knock detection to protect me. I'm particularly aware when I take it to France in the summer, it'll be hot (hopefully), and the car will be fully loaded, weight-wise too - both of which won't help when it comes to knock.
The potential saving of 5p per litre (Ł3 per tank) was just an added bonus (and a way to help persuade the wife we should keep it!).
07 February 2018, 01:46 PM
#6
Cheers guys - that all sounds sensible.
It's not an 'economy' map I'm after, as such, although better economy's always a bonus. I know the boxer engine is never going to be that economical and I generally average around 28mpg anyway, which I reckon is pretty reasonable.
My main priority was being able to safely run 95 RON without having to rely on the engine's knock detection to protect me. I'm particularly aware when I take it to France in the summer, it'll be hot (hopefully), and the car will be fully loaded, weight-wise too - both of which won't help when it comes to knock.
The potential saving of 5p per litre (Ł3 per tank) was just an added bonus (and a way to help persuade the wife we should keep it!).
It's not an 'economy' map I'm after, as such, although better economy's always a bonus. I know the boxer engine is never going to be that economical and I generally average around 28mpg anyway, which I reckon is pretty reasonable.
My main priority was being able to safely run 95 RON without having to rely on the engine's knock detection to protect me. I'm particularly aware when I take it to France in the summer, it'll be hot (hopefully), and the car will be fully loaded, weight-wise too - both of which won't help when it comes to knock.
The potential saving of 5p per litre (Ł3 per tank) was just an added bonus (and a way to help persuade the wife we should keep it!).
07 February 2018, 01:58 PM
#7
Scooby Regular
other than the map for abroad, if your worried about using 99 then you need to buy a different car. I know it sounds harsh, but you wouldn't give a race horse cheap corn.
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07 February 2018, 06:00 PM
#12
I disagree. My car's a UK car and it was originally intended to run on 95. Prior to my ownership, my uncle ran it on 95 for 15 years! I use it every day as my daily runabout. If it was a pampered, garaged, weekend-only fun car then I can understand why you'd want to run it only on thoroughbred fuel. Mine isn't though - it's very much our family runabout. It may be filthy, having not been washed for about 6 months, but mechanically it's very well looked after and maintained. For everyday driving and sitting it traffic, 95 will be perfectly fine for it, if mapped appropriately.
07 February 2018, 06:07 PM
#13
Scooby Regular
I disagree. My car's a UK car and it was originally intended to run on 95. Prior to my ownership, my uncle ran it on 95 for 15 years! I use it every day as my daily runabout. If it was a pampered, garaged, weekend-only fun car then I can understand why you'd want to run it only on thoroughbred fuel. Mine isn't though - it's very much our family runabout. It may be filthy, having not been washed for about 6 months, but mechanically it's very well looked after and maintained. For everyday driving and sitting it traffic, 95 will be perfectly fine for it, if mapped appropriately.
07 February 2018, 06:18 PM
#14
Without wanting to sound argumentative, you're missing the point. If the map is adjusted appropriately, any RON of fuel could be used. I'm not just going to run my current map intended for 99 on 95. That's the whole reason I created this post.
07 February 2018, 08:19 PM
#15
Scooby Regular
08 February 2018, 09:12 AM
#17
Scooby Regular
you have to consider whats in the fuel as well. ask yourself why its cheaper?
08 February 2018, 09:15 AM
#18
Scooby Regular
was mapped by pat h so you can decided if it was mapped properly
Now you could ask is it the sole reason for the failure? and that i would say prob not and no way to prove either way, however when the engine was stripped it was found to be in pretty poor condition and heavy deposits which would have come from the fuel.
Now you could ask is it the sole reason for the failure? and that i would say prob not and no way to prove either way, however when the engine was stripped it was found to be in pretty poor condition and heavy deposits which would have come from the fuel.
08 February 2018, 10:11 AM
#19
Scooby Regular
was mapped by pat h so you can decided if it was mapped properly
Now you could ask is it the sole reason for the failure? and that i would say prob not and no way to prove either way, however when the engine was stripped it was found to be in pretty poor condition and heavy deposits which would have come from the fuel.
Now you could ask is it the sole reason for the failure? and that i would say prob not and no way to prove either way, however when the engine was stripped it was found to be in pretty poor condition and heavy deposits which would have come from the fuel.
If mapped properly then and running a fuel filter then cants see why it would have any reason to do with the failure so no i wouldnt ask if it had anything to do with the failure.
If your fuels got twigs and dirt in it then id imagine your gona have problems eventually tho but thats common sense.
Mapped properly no car will ever die from using the 95 fuel it was setup on just makes zero sense to say it would.
You could say it being cheaper could lead to quality issues. But these cases are just as common as the v-power being filled with 95. Very rare and not worth basing an argument on.
Can always use a filter funnel to sive all the bits out that African 95 with bitz haha
08 February 2018, 10:14 AM
#20
Scooby Regular
08 February 2018, 01:34 PM
#26
Scooby Regular
The less refining the cheaper it is and the more contaminants are in it.
perhaps if you thought about what i wrote instead of being too thick to understand the process you wouldn't be such a dumbass.
08 February 2018, 01:39 PM
#27
Scooby Regular
go look how fuel is produced and understand why it's cheaper then come back.
The less refining the cheaper it is and the more contaminants are in it.
perhaps if you thought about what i wrote instead of being too thick to understand the process you wouldn't be such a dumbass.
The less refining the cheaper it is and the more contaminants are in it.
perhaps if you thought about what i wrote instead of being too thick to understand the process you wouldn't be such a dumbass.
The expensive stuff is the same cheap 95 only with additives ( hence cost increase)
Or do you think they run it all though special v-power or tesco 99 grade filters ??
08 February 2018, 01:46 PM
#29
Scooby Regular
Then theres other things like water content, how its stored etc etc
People assume its simple mater of heating oil to a certain temp and you get your fuel. It's actually alot more complex than that by the time it hits the pumps.
08 February 2018, 01:46 PM
#30
go look how fuel is produced and understand why it's cheaper then come back.
The less refining the cheaper it is and the more contaminants are in it.
perhaps if you thought about what i wrote instead of being too thick to understand the process you wouldn't be such a dumbass.
The less refining the cheaper it is and the more contaminants are in it.
perhaps if you thought about what i wrote instead of being too thick to understand the process you wouldn't be such a dumbass.