Gingerbreaddan

Hi guys,
I've recently built a Subaru powered kit car and just put a V1 engine in running a Z4 ecu with a ESL board. My issue is that I want to go mafless but can I just turn the maf off in the ESL and start using the map sensor instead or do I need a maf in for the first mapping session?? The reason I'm asking is because I think the maf has stopped working and I'd rather not replace it just to not use it once it's mapped

Any advise would be appreciated

sean turbo2000

iTrader: (1)

needs to be mapped maffless, if you switch it now it will run terrible if at all

Gingerbreaddan

Hopefully it's getting mapped on a few days.
My mapper did mention we might have to change the pin outs on the ecu so the map sender would work?? but I thought on the V2 ESL board it was just a matter of switching the maf off in the software???

piehole1983

iTrader: (7)

You need to fit an intake air temperature sensor, well I did anyway for the V3 (8S) ecu with ESL. Have you read the ESL manual about MAFless operation?

Otherwise it is as simple as switching to MAFless in software. The fuel table will need completely redone though.

Gingerbreaddan

Yeh I thought you needed temp sender but the manual says
'To switch between MAP and MAF based load, open “MAFless Only” on the ECU Tree and switch MAFless Enable from 0 to 1. Ensure the engine is off when you make the switch! When mapping MAFless, switch the fuel map values to raw, as there will be an error at Idle and the AFRs will not be correctly represented.'
Hopefully it should just be a remap to sort air fuel ratio again... But knowing my luck something else will go wrong!! Lol!!

piehole1983

iTrader: (7)

Just had another read at it there and found this opening line for the IAT section:

'If MAFless and using an IAT, make sure the MAF is disconnected, and connect a resistive temperature sensor'

So, you must be able to use MAFless mode with or without an IAT sensor. I fitted one to my car after talking to Andy but haven't went MAFless yet.

sean turbo2000

iTrader: (1)

yeah im running mafless with no iat

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

the IAT sensor will help make a more complete tune, running speed density you will be more affected by changes in intake air density so the IAT sensor allows some compensations to be made.

Gingerbreaddan

Dont suppose you know where I can get a IAT from

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

inside a busted MAF sensor from a newage car of course but a lot of guys on the romraider tuning forum go for the GM fast response one:
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/g...tail-p-62.html

it's not mad pricey but you'll have to tap the manifold for it and make sure your tuner is happy with it. Your tuner may already have a sensor in mind and a location so don't surprise them with something random!

piehole1983

iTrader: (7)

Mine is fitted just before the throttle body but then I have solid intercooler pipe work. I welded an aluminium block to it then drilled and tapped it for the sensor.

I used this: http://www.emeraldm3d.com/sensors-an...mp-sensor.html

And this: http://www.emeraldm3d.com/connectors...imer-plug.html

Gingerbreaddan

Cheers for all you help guys... I'm going to get it mapped Mafless just to get it running safe, then get the IAT put on in a few weeks

Rick2017

I didn't no you could run maffless with out the iat sensor. How is fuel and air measured if the maffless is turned off. Also if this is possible I'm new to this by the way would I need to map for maffless or can I just switch off

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

without the maf sensor the ECU uses the MAP sensor to determine how much air is in the manifold then your fuel table determines how much fuel gets sent in for that amount of air. If you read the ESL manual there's a bit of info in there to get you started it's not just a case of "maffless ON" and your done there's a fair bit of work involved with the wideband.

ben.harris

iTrader: (2)

What are the Pro's of maffless? I'm aware that the later V5 and V6 cars have a more fragile MAF sensor, so that's obviously a plus, but on an earlier car (e.g. my V3 UK equivalent), is there much of an advantage, unless I was at the point of exceeding what capacity of what the MAF can measure - which I'm not! :-)

Oh, and I'm aware that maffless, doesn't generally idle as well/easily as with a MAF, and has to be calibrated to accommodate changes in pressure, such as going up mountains - although as I live in East Anglia, this wouldn't be a regular problem for me.

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

the pros of mafless? Basically now your mafless - that's the pro, no more maf sensor, you can have any intake setup you can think of and you never have to replace the maf again. Don't forget tho as you have access to the maf scaling tables if you decide your older maf is on the way out you can fit one from another car and just drop that maf scaling into your map with minor adjustments to fuelling and be up and running again.

Rick2017

sounds easy when you put it like that

Rick2017

And to add ,a new maf sensor is ridiculous in price .