Toerag

Allegedly my Forester S-turbo has a TD04L turbo, how does this compare to an impreza turbo, and how much power can be safely extracted without changing things other than ECU, exhaust maybe?

Toerag

Bump!
Someone must know!

john banks

I believe the turbo is even smaller than the TD04 in the UK Imprezas.

Forester_GP

Toerag, i'm doing some testing right now @13 PSI and also monitoring various parameters plus intake temps so i'll be able to post results soon. Expect around 260 Bhp & 265-270 Lbf @ 12.5 PSi due to higher CR (lower BSFC) especially if you've fitted a better DP + exhaust.
John, it is weird, i found somewhere on the iNet that my exact turbo part # wears a 14 wheel but i would also agree with you that is somewhat smaller that, either being the compressor cartridge or the turbine, hence the low RPM spoool-up. Nevertheless, it is very responsive to minor wastegate % duty cycle changes even at >6000 rpms.

George

EMS

If you have the standard turbo fitted (which is definatly smaller than the one from the Impreza!) I would say 15 PSI in the midrange, dropping to about 11,5 PSI at 6.500 is about the maximum you can go. Because of the very lean standard maps, you have to let your ECU remapped.

About 210 BHP and 230 LbFt should be possible with a decent exhaust system fitted.

P.S. George I can't understand how you get those high power numbers!

Mark.

[Edited by EMS - 1/15/2003 10:09:41 PM]

davy1

pretty sure UKs have TD04s,imports have TD05

Forester_GP

EMS, you're right about the standard maps but mine is TEK-custom thingy. Originally, in the UK, the Forester produced 215 BHP & 230 Lbf @ 10.5 PSI with Backbox only.
The original map(10.5) produced about 232 Bhp on my setup on a local dyno shop (!i Know!), a subsequent map @ 11.5 PSI produced 245 & 245.
Currently, I'm running full exhaust + uprated intake piping + Water spray @ 12.7 - 12.9 PSI from 2100 - 5900 then tapers down to 11.4.
I haven't dynoed it lately, no AP22 either, but a 330i, a SAAB 9-5, an S3 and an MY02 impreza, so far, were forced to change lanes after the 160 - 180 Km mark up to silly speeds, on my private road of course!!(Their state of tune was unknown.)
I've also done some calcs using the stealth316 site and my DD logs, and the numbers seem consistent with what is stated above.
I'm no expert by any means and i'm learning something new from you guys everyday, but doing 130 MPH on 10% grade uphill is fast enough for me(is it really?).

George

Butty

iTrader: (2)

My JDM Forester (MY97) deffo runs a TDO4L and boosts at 11.7 psi (giving 240 PS) from about 2900 rpm all the way through to 7000 rpm.
The UK Forester is a TDO4L as well but seems to be restricted to 7 psi.
I haven't got any other UK figures but I can only assume that with a software change and perhaps a different wastegate, getting the 11.7 psi is straight forward.

George, was your Forester really a std UK version that you started with? Its meant to have about 170 bhp.
10.5 psi and 232 BHP sounds very close to a JDM output but perhaps pulled back for lower RON fuel?

Nick
1997 STB Forester

dowser

As Mark mentions, don't try this without sorting fuelling - the original maps are way too lean!

Richard

Forester_GP

Butty, mine is Euro late '00 S-turbo at 170 also. The first map (10.5) was produced in the UK for "MattRuss" i believe and was hitting 10.7 on my car. The output for the JDM that you mention is very similar to what i was getting when i was running the same boost. Currently, in the quest on the limits of my turbo, i've tweaked my ECU a bit by raising its target to 12.8 - 12.9 and everything looks still O.K. Fuelling is still rich at 0.91, no DET, and intake temps have not risen. Now i have to find the time to setup the water spray controller that i've got from Autospeed.

George

EMS

Perhaps the turbo of the Forester S-Turbo (euro spec.) is called TD04L, but it´s definitely smaller than the turbo of the Impreza! I have seen those two together.

Mark.

G-Reedy

TD04L is the WRX turbo on the (160KW) MY01/02 Bugeyed wrx is australia. The Australian 130kw/175hp?? Forester has a turbo with markings TF03HM

Toerag

Hmmm, interesting!
<Goes outside to look at the markings on his turbo>

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Is that the new shaped Forester Turbo?

Sorry - I missed Mr Banks's comment-- John do you know if the UK version is still marked as the TD04L but with different vanes or is it marked as a totally different version?

Nick

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Find any markings Toerag?

Nick

Toerag

I think it's about time I grew double-jointed wrists! This is what I found, although not being able to remove the heat shield or any of the plumbing meant that it's probably not of any use!
On the steel band around the centre between the 2 turbines: '1C304H', with the '04H' being in a smaller font.
On the very rusty exhaust turbine near where it bolts onto the downpipe:'35-130' and underneath that '060'
On the compressor housing 2 'stamps' with the following inside a circle: 'TP' and '1A' There was some writing on a flat section on the bottom of the compressor housing but I couldn't read it due to plumbing in the way. Do you guys want pics? I might be able to get some tomorrow?

Butty

iTrader: (2)

It should be written on the face of the air inlet side.
May be easier with a make up mirror angled down to read in the gap. Should be stamped on alloy, reading clockwise around the middle of the face.
Can't be mor descriptive or with a piccie as car is being repaired at the moment.
Seem to remember that it is the type "TD04L" followed by a load of other numbers.

Nick

G-Reedy

put the car in a dark spot... pop the bonnet and use a torch to light up the raised pad on the compressor from above (rest torch to the left or just behind the coolant tank) and read it sort of from infront and under the header tank.... sorry its kinda hard to describe BUT it can be done..

oh yeh im referring to the old shape turbo forester here in Australia... strong rumours our new shaped Forester turbo due in 2nd half of 2003 will be 2.5 litre

Butty

iTrader: (2)

I hope Aus gets the 2.5 coz then it'll be RHD.
I assume then that this will be offered as a JDM version.
Either way, something will be importable to the UK.. )

Nick

Toerag

Ok guys, just had another look with the aid of a torch which made things a lot easier to see! The Mystery deepens!
A vertical row of 3 dots (centre punchings?)
to the right...
1441..... can't read the rest
under that
49135-047 .....can't read the rest
under that
TF035HM 0106 12044 ......can't read the rest

Does that mean it's a TF035HM then? It sounds very similar to the aussie one mentioned by G-reddy.
<goes off to type TF035HM into google>

[Edited by Toerag - 2/7/2003 1:46:18 PM]

[Edited by Toerag - 2/7/2003 1:47:08 PM]

Toerag

Google only found 3 pages which weren't very useful, but a search for TF035 came up with the goods:-
from http://www.amazon3.com/mitsubishi.htm#Subaru

Impreza WRX 2.0L P RHF5HB VF24 14412AA200/1/2 24 Hours
Impreza WRX 2.0L P RHF5HB VF28 14412AA291 24 Hours
Impreza WRX 2.0L P RHF5HB VF23 14412AA172/3 24 Hours
Legacy 2.0L P RHB52 VF8 14411AA030 24 Hours
IMPREZA 2.0LP TD04L-13T-6 49377-04100 14412AA140 EMAIL
FORESTER 2.0LP TD04L-13T-6 49377-04100 14412AA140 EMAIL
FORESTER 2.0LP TD035HM-14T-4 49135-04600 14412AA240 EMAIL

I guess the STi, STa/b & TTa/b have the TD04L-13T-6 and the S-turbo's & GT's have the TF035HM-14T-4.
<goes off for more digging>
Google translated this for me>
For the increase of achievement and torque the engine has turbochargers a MHI TF035, which Subaru calls "soft turbo". "soft", because he works with a limited load pressure of maximally 0.55 bar. This "gentle" characteristic and the early employment - the loader already takes its work with 1.000/min up - prevent both the annoying "turbo-hole" with low numbers of revolutions and the feared "Turbobums". The loader injects over the entire number of revolutions volume the additional achievement continuous to the engine. The stress is not on compromiseless increase in output, but on lasting equal measure of the achievement development.
<Does this mean I'm restricted to 0.55BAR, or is that just how much it produces in my car?>
EDIT:I wish I could have read all the numbers, but I couldn't see around the CORNER!

[Edited by Toerag - 2/7/2003 2:05:06 PM]

[Edited by Toerag - 2/7/2003 2:10:20 PM]

G-Reedy

your a legend Toe..

seems our Foresters (Aust. "GT" + UK "S") share the same turbo set to 8 psi from the factory to achieve is "mammoth" 130kw

Farm boy

Yep, sounds like you NEED a TD04 and it just so happens I have one spare...

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Nice searching Toerag.
I'm a little confused now - I looked at an S-Turbo back in 1998 and it deffo had a TD04L but running at 7 psi/0.55 bar.
Anyone know if there was a switch over in turbos from the 04L to the 035 during the first year of the S Turbo/GT?
If not then perhaps I was looking at a modded one with a turbo swap but without any boost alterations?

Anyway... to get JDM power from an S-turbo/GT, is it a case of getting a TD04L and corresponding ECU from either a JDM Forester or WRX estate/ auto model?

Also - is there a route for getting the old WRX 280 bhp into the JDM Forester. If they share the same turbo would it just be an ECU swap?

Nick
1997 Forester S/tb

wos 69

I have td04l turbo off my 00 done about 18000 miles for sale.

Farm boy

My ones just been overhauled at turbo tecnics Apparently there was nothing wrong with it but it got new bearings and seals just for good measure. Anybody know what they're worth?

Forester_GP

I've found these so far :

49135 02100 TURBO TF035HM-12T-4 -08020
49135 02110 TURBO TF035-12T-4
49135 03110 TURBO TF035-12T-4 -08000
49135 03111 TURBO TF035-12T-4 -08000
49135 03130 TURBO TF035HM-12T-4 -08000
49135 03200 TURBO TF035-12T-4
49135 03300 TURBO TF035
49135 03410 TURBO TF035HL-14GK-6 -08500
49135 03411 TURBO TF035HL-14GK-6 -08500
49135 05000 TURBO TF035HM-13T-6 -08100
49135 05010 TURBO TF035HM-13T-6 -08100
49135 05020 TURBO TF035HM-13T-6
49135 05030 TURBO TF035HM-13T-6
49135 05500 TURBO TF035
49135 06020 TURBO TF035HM-10T-4 -08210

My Turbo's part number is 49135-4600, exactly what Toerag listed(i've noted of this site in the past)but i tend to believe that is of a type 13T-6cm because there is a 6 "something" marking on my turbine case. Now if it is 13 size comp wheel and 6cm2 turbine housing that puts it (sizewise) in the territorry of the TD04L, although the comp housing may be somewhat smaller. So far and according to DD road dyno i've managed to get around 200Bhp@wheels or 265@flywheel running 12.7Psi 2200-5900 dropping to 11.5 by 6500. By the look of WG duty the turbo is happy supplying the air needed @6500 because the duty doesn't increase at all after the drop @5900 as induced by the map. Yesterday, i've had my first overbootcut at 18.4PSI since ambient was 3C and my 1mm restrictor wasn't adequate to control the dense charge. Going back to standard 1.25mm tomorrow. Next on schedule, since i've seen what the turbo can do, is a remap to 14.5PSI midrange holding to 12.5 - 13 at the top.
Also note that the TF035 is a lot more expensive than a TD04L, so there must be something special aboout it, i just don't know what it is but like all small things is at least "cute",LOL.

Butty, if you have '99 or newer model a TEK remap is all you're going to need ECUwise. If you can wait you can get my latest map once i get it sorted with ecutek first.

George

Butty

iTrader: (2)

George,
Mines a 1997 JDM model, so I guess its rated at 250 PS.
I suppose I can get the ECU map read and compared with an equivalent WRX of that age and then remapped?

Nick
1997 Forester S/tb