Where to begin........

I've had my scoob for about a month right?

Driving it on Saturday by Woodford station.

Come up to a set of lights.........i'm turning right.
The car infront of me makes the turn........I check to see if there is any oncoming traffic, none so I turn right.
Just straightening my wheel when my passenger shouts "Watch out!"

A nissan micra as come across the lights and smashed into the near side/side of my scoob.

His airbag goes off........no damage to my passengers.
I jump out, run over to him, he's ok.......notice he has duel controls in his car, he's a driving instructor.

Call the police, they turn up, move the cars (my car is drivable) but won't do anything else as they didn't see the the accident occur.

I get an independant witness saying I made the turn and he drove into me.
He gets 2 independant witness' saying I pulled out into him.
Which is strange considering the impact was past into the entrance to the road I was turning in to.

Now...........who's fault?

I'm so so gutted.

 

you crossed his path, he had right of way, sorry bud its your fault

 

But we were both on green lights (no filters) I was already into the turning of the road?

Shouldn't he have been driving at a speed where he could have stopped?
Considering I was already mostly through the turn?

I mean, what if soeone had stepped out on the crossing infront of me and I had to stop then?

 

is this going to turn into one of those 'shouldve done this, that or the other' threads...?

 

Sorry to hear about your bump mate. Must be very upseting.

Regretably -from what you've described- this looks like it'll go down as your fault. You could argue that he should have stopped, but he could equally argue that -as it was his right of way- you should not have performed a turn that would cause him to take avoiding action. If he deliberately drove into you having had good time to stop, or was speeding, then you could probably get it to a knock for knock fault status. If not, the highway code is not on your side.

I sympathise, there are some very nasty junctions out there where it can be genuinely hard to see if all the oncoming traffic has passed. These things happen at least no-one was hurt.

Hope it gets sorted quickly.

NS04

 

He did ask for opinions mate. As long as no-one gets on their high horse. Always pays to remember that hindsight is always 20:20 and we've all made mistake when driving at some point.

NS04

 

Best you can hope for is 50/50... Although it will probably go down as being your fault

If you had no green filter arrow, then you're in a give way scenario.

Saying that, surpised that this driving instructor didn't anticipate your move, but then that's ADI standards for you

From how you describe it though (straightening wheel) it sounds like you were well into the move, therefore as I said, surprised the ADI disn't see you. Did you take any photos of the scene, his skid marks will determine speed prior to brake application.

When you write out your description, include a top down scale accuate view of the junction. Include time of day, weather (and therefore braking) conditions, type, direction and approximate speed of all vehicles involved. you might do okay, you never know.

 

couldnt agree more, thats why i hope it doesnt turn into one of those types of threads with the holier than thou brigade getting revved up...!

 

If, however, you have evidence that he's fibbing about the nature of the accident i.e. that you drove into him rather than him driving into you, then the credibility of his account will suffer and it might be a different story.

NS04

 

Thanks mate........

However.............the road he was coming from was clear when I started my turn. He was literally going at some speed to have the impact it did.
The witnesses even said they heard No braking from his car.......at all.

He flew round the corner coming up to the junction and shot straight across into me.....

Anyway...I asked for opinions and i'm thankfull for other views.......
If only I could add a diagram of the accident area, you'd see how far into the junction I was......the back of my car was out and he still swerved into me.

 

Crude but hey.........I'm the car turning right, the red line is the direction the bloke was going in.........how he swerved round that bend into the front I don't know. The diagram is a little inaccurate.......I wasn't driving a box and I was further round into the turning.

 

If the witnesses agree that the road was clear when you initiated the turn, then you can argue that you had given way appropriately and excessive speed or lack of vigilance when approaching a junction on his part was the cause. When you say independent witnesses, are we talking passengers, or passers by?

NS04

 

Your fault by the looks of it. It would also be your fault if he was turning left.

 

Passers bye.......Actually on the bottom left hand corner, as it happened.

The road was clear, I moved out and along he came into me......
I wouldn't have pulled out as I wasn't in a rush, I was just plodding along.
Which makes it worse......

 

Are you sure he was swerving and not just intending to turn left all along (just thinking he could beat you too it) perhaps without indication and at an inappropriate speed? If he'd been intending to go straight ahead and wanted to swerve to avoid you, it would have made more sense to go right, since you were well into the turn.

NS04

 

Thats what we couldn't work out........the police and I.......

He wasn't turning left, he was going straight on. He even said when he saw me he swerved to his left.......which doesn't make any sense as like you've pointed out, he should have gone to his right.

The only thing I can think of as he wasn't from around the area was he wasn't looking.......I mean if i'd pulled out into him, the accident would have happened further back, in the middle of the junction.
But the fact he swerved his car round into the front of me whilst my nose was in the junction doesn't make sense......

 

I think you could successfully argue if you had a witness that it was his fault because the impact was in the side of your car rather than the corner. If he blindsided you like illustrated he should have had ample time to brake as you were well into your turn before he smashed into you.

 

I had an incident exactly like this a couple of years ago, except that I was driving in the direction of the arrow at 30mph.......I couldn't stop in time and hit the car on the passenger door and rear door.

Her insurance company paid up immediately as there was no filter light giving her 'right of way' and she was having to cross my lane.

Sorry, but it looks like you're going to lose your no claims.....

Thanks, Nick.

 

Looks like a case of you forgetting there is 6ft of car still behind you after turning, but why the other driver didn't swerve is anyones guess.

Similar thing happened to my mate turning right on a blind junction...was clear at the time, but he farted about pulling away far too slowly (he's an overcautious driver- paranoid of wheelspinning. (we've since taught him how to do standing starts, so he can actually confidently pull away from standstill now ).

The other driver was driving too fast for the road conditions (blind junction, unlit narrow road, damp surface) and didn't control the car under braking (lock the front wheels and stright lined from point onwards, veering to the wrong side of the road before colliding - if he hadn't of braked he could have swerved round us

Even because of this, full liability was put upon my mate.

All you can hope for is knock for knock.....write up you own statement, and just let the insurance companies deal with it, not much else you can do.

 

Well, thanks for the comments anyway......Lucky I do have protected no-claims then?........
I'm just so gutted as it really wasn't my fault......He wasn't there when I pulled out, I was into the turning and then he hits me.

hey....**** it

 

driver instructor teaches ppl to be vigilant and judge situations and it does sound like he did not do that


otherwise from a driving technical view its your fault you should wait for him to pass but it could be a bit difficult if he had alot of speed comming on to you and you judged the situation as being safe to turn and he came out of nowhere

so its all down to judgement of the situation where id say you judged right and he should have been aware that cars could turn that way, especially if he is a drivers instructor... you cant just think your in your right way and plow into ppl or cars, thats not responseable driving IMO

but its the techincal legality of the situation that counts im affraid..

 

If you could get that in writing from the policeman concerned that would help.

I would suggest this rests upon whether it can be ascertained that you initiated the turn when the other car was not visible. If so, you've essentially adhered to the right of way rule and it's then up to him to exercise due care when approaching a junction. Something doesn't sound right about that going straight ahead explanation from him. He either had a monent of madness and swerved into danger rather than away from it, or was going left all along and just misjudged the turn and/or his approach speed. Excepting other traffic, a road layout that obscures vision, or simply being distracted by something else, I find it hard to believe that he simply did not see you.

Hope it gets sorted quickly anyway.

NS04

 

looks to me that as your in the turn and he has giveway lines then he has to give way to you so it should be his fault?

 

Exactly........

We were both on green light, I was already in the turn and far enough into it he should have stopped....

It's ok, got my head on straight now and gonna fight this because i'm not risking 6 years no claims when he was at fault....

 

it looks like you turned across his path ie you were on his side of road law will be against you unfortunately
martin

 

Yes I was on his side of the road but as my turning was clear and I was "able to do so" "plus I was already 3/4's through the action" the fact that he came speeding around the corner prior to the lights is his main downfall.

he should have been driving at a speed where he could have stopped.....
As my insurance company have just stated to me.......

 

Was this at London Road / Chester Road ATS?

 

No........it was in Woodford, London?

 

Ah, ok was just trying to figure out where it was as there is no train station in Woodford (Cheshire )

From what you have said there is a possible case for the other driver to answer. However, would need to see the road layout to make any further comment.

 

The issue for me is the micra's speed. If he was not speeding then your manouvre caused him to brake when he had right of way (well that, and to smash into your car), so thinking back to your driving test, you'll know thats a no-no.
Glad you and your passengers were OK!