For some reason the Christmas spirit has got me wanting more from my car. Having been corrupted by Steve and David and shown the evils of modifying, I'm debating whether to throw some money at the car. My current list of extensive mods include: brakes, SS downpipe and backbox (I'm sure that will bring back bad memories for David and Steve!), wheels and panel filter. Car is an MY98 saloon.

My thoughts so far have been around getting a bigger/better engine with uprated internals. I want reliability to go hand in hand with power, I'm also looking for lots of torque.

As it stands then my shopping list would be:
FMIC
bigger turbo
2.2 stroker kit?
all the other bits like induction kit, fuel pump etc.

The top 3 seem to be the 'unknowns', perhaps the FMIC being less so. From reading around there is alot of debate over bigger engines atm. It seems obvious to me that bigger capacity = better and more reliable, although the restrictions around wall thickness start becoming a factor. There are so many options.

I suppose the purpose of this thread would be to debate the merits of which option is best, both in terms of reliability and value for money.

To start things off, would people recommend I ditch the engine in there atm and go for a legacy block, or to do my worst to what I already have?

 

first things first...

you need a new fuel pump.

Your block is open deck...

so you, locate a closed deck block.

find some heads cams etc.. and get it built..

but first what do you want to achieve?

you would need the following (IMHO)

ECU
Injectors
Fuel Pump
FMIC
Filter
Turbo

(sure ive forgotton something)

But you could do 2.2 / 2.3 as I am..

whats the budget?

oh and mail mark@lateralperformance.co.uk for some advice.

David

 

Fecking hell, we corrupted you that much.

Its really down to the specifics of what you really want from your car, but think long and hard at what you want and need.

IMHO 1st thing is make sure you have clear plan of what you want to do, and do not deviate from it unless for genuine reasons.

All the above costs alot of money, so you must make the right choices for you.

Will help you more when my hangover has gone

 

I know the list of things required is endless (I'd half forgotten about the ECU!)- I suppose that is part of why I'm asking now. As I have the machanical ability of a newt, there is no point me even considering doing this on my own.

What I would like to achieve is a tough question. My contorted logic for doing this would be that as my car is relatively worthless as it is, if I sold it to get something bigger/better I would have to pay lots of cash. Seeing as the basic layout of the subaru is sound (4wd, independent suspension etc etc), it seems stupid to spend £20k in a couple of years time to change to a slightly better car if I can spend £10k or so on the car I have currently over the same period and have something better as an end result.

So considerations are:
torque/power in the 400-450 range
excellent reliability

I don't want to sacrifice reliability for power. I want a car that will run reliably for the next 3/4 years, whilst giving me lots of power to work with.

Bugdet as I said above would be about £10k or so - I reckon you can do an awful lot for that, but I also think it is realistic given that I don't want to break lots of records (I just need to look at what steven has spent on his!). That would be for engine modifications only (I intend to do the suspensioon at some point too).

Having looked around there are various extremes on can go to: GGR for example will take nearly £6k of your money for an 'Impreza short engine with Cosworth lightweight forged pistons,Arrow H section rods,billet steel crankshaft and GGR lightweight flywheel all fully balanced'. This seems a little excessive for my purposes, and, although nice, would be overkill. It isn't even a 2.2 or 2.33.

That leaves 4 questions :-
Which ECU? (Link?)
Which FMIC?
Which engine block and uprated components?
Which turbo?

And is all this achieveable on a budget of £10k, or will it have to stretch to 15? I'm sure a reliable 450bhp shouldn't cost that, or am I wrong.

I'm sure this thought process has been done before (take standard car and turn into something special) but I can't for the life of me find a nicely laid out roadmap anywhere Should be a fun mental exercise anyway

 

well...

allow at least 2k for an uprated gearset from mark..

Billet flywheel, and clutch

ECU.. I wouldnt personally do a link ecu (unless your car is MY00 onwards) - depends whos mapping it.... call that 2k

Intercooler.. i would go HKS.. £1000
Turbo £1000

Injectors £500

Fuel pump £150
Block up to £600 ish depending on what condition you want
Heads £????

Rods £800 ish
Pistons £600 ish..

Engine build £???

Obviously there are savings to be made / had...

Std crank is fine.. no point going for a billet crank imho.

theres also a lot more to take into account..

David

 

Steve, I can lay the blame firmly in your court

David, I suppose I ought to rephrase the question - what do I need to do to get a reliable 400-450 power and torque figures? Going on those estimates and factoring in some labour it looks to be about £12k. Assuming that I can somehow get some better prices could possibly knock that down a bit - therefore this is a realistic 'project'. If I get a bigger block, uprated rods/pistons/fuel pump/injectors/gearset what is the potential for that?

I know Mark Aigin is probably the guru, so hopefully he will chip in at some point

I also need to consider who could and would be able do this work in the north. My feelings are that if the engine is coming out then all the other bits like clutch, turbo, fmic, fuel pump and so on would best be done at the same time. The ECU would also need to be mapped, and only having to do this once would be more attractive budget wise I'm in no rush to do this, and would like to do it properly, so as David has already said, planning exactly what I want and then sticking to it has to be the best way.

Thanks for any and all contributions, and happy christmas I'm off to drink some more champagne

 

Just realising now, having read a few of the threads from the last year on rebuilding engines that you are doing exactly the same thing David - I need to keep up with the times! Have you committed yourself to a particular route yet? I see you've got the block and lots of other stuff - when do you plan to do your rebuilding (I'm assuming you are going to do this yourself!). Have just emailed Mark as well.

 

Id prefer to discus it off board at the moment... as Im trying some bits that I wouldnt recommend to others..

Ill mail you...

(i also emailed mark and pointed him in your direction)

David

 

Cheers

The trouble is that so many knowledgeable people are trying so many different things it is hard to keep track! And all competing to out-do the others - who will win?

 

Hugh, i was thinking over Christmas, if you were to run this power then do you think the brakes are upto it. I know they are better than the standard ones, just dont know how they would be with the new Power?

 

Steve, this is obviously a consideration and I will obviously need to test this out, so to speak. However, I don't intend to do trackdays in this car (at the moment anyway) so brake fade shouldn't be such a factor - just stopping from bigger speeds more regularly on the road. I reckon I'm a pretty conservative driver compared to most, I've done a fair amount of advance driving so *think* my anticipation is okay hence avoid relying on brakes to get me out of sticky situations, however it would be nice to have the comfort of AP 6 pots to fall back on if worst came to the worst. The brakes I have are significantly better than the standard subaru 4 pots and the stopping power, although not as good as the 6 pots obviously, is still remarkably effective.

As the 'project' stands, my pricing up is still a bit vague. I need to speak to Mark once he returns south, and also to an engine builder like SMG. The most expensive bits look like they will be:

HKS Intercooler £1200
ECU (Gems/Motec??) £1500-2000
Gearset £1800 (not sure though)
Turbo £???? (need to speak to Mark!)
and the engine build/parts

The total I have got to so far is about £12.5k which includes all the bits I can possibly think I will need plus labour, although I am sure I have grossly underestimated the labour costs by about £1k. However, until I get to speak to the people in the know, I don't think I can narrow it down any more.

 

I'll help you get the labour cost down..

Dont speak to an engine builder, let mark speak to one.. (he will get it done cheaper and better than you)

Ie he will decide on the CR instead of you...

David

 

I will help get your labour down aswell, ie intercooler, turbo, as much as i can

 

Just spent over an hour on the phone to Mark I think the plan will be to complete at least Trout's car and then take it from there using that experience. David's car should be in a similar position as well. Will make the decisions about where to spend my money that bit easier, although the core idea is all pretty much laid out A bit of time to start saving the pennies as well

Thanks for the offers. All help will be much appreciated I'm going to try to make it down to the Buckles tomorrow, but I'll be working till 7pm so may be a little late. 'We are not short staffed' my ****

 

Hugh,

are you coming on Monday - can take you for a spin in my car as well - if you weren't corrupted enough already!

There is another thread where I have listed all the things you might need - call it £13000!

That is probably top price as there are some things you will need to do.

BTW the thin wall comment was for 2.5l only when based on a 2l block. It looked like it might be too thin - but someone is going to test this.

For a 2.2l you would be fine. Also 6k for that short block is very expensive and Cossie pistons may be good - but sound like a bag of nails.

Trout

 

I must be telepathic