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what coilovers? best value for money?

Old 20 October 2012, 05:44 AM
  #61  
dazdavies
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Originally Posted by Bugeye_Scoob View Post
No **** funnily enough I know.
I have to say I found that quite offensive given that you had no clue exactly how I had my car setup long term.
This was whilst experimenting with the car.
After installation I tried it full soft, full hard, 15 clicks from soft, 10 clicks from soft, 5 clicks from soft, etc etc.
Eventually I ended up going for about 10 clicks from soft on the front and 12 on the back. Softer compromised the handling and harder was unbearable as a daily driver.


So basically you're saying that your BC's were specially constructed for your requirements rather than being standard out of the box, AND they're not BR series which are the ones I'm talking about, and then you go on to say the standard BR series are crap!?. Maybe I've misinterpreted your comments as I thought you were being pro BR here for a minute!?


That's why the majority of car makers don't put coilovers on any cars at all Sadly the standard Subaru shocks are not much cop as we all know but I couldn't be bothered with installing grease nipples in my rear shocks and they knocked terribly.
I also think you could easily revise that statement to "any car could be made to handle badly if you fit the wrong suspension, springs, or don't have geo done, etc etc".



The fact that a business sells a product doesn't make it the best on the market for the price.
It's like me saying - Scoobyclinic sell Racing Logics so they must be good.
Similarly you could say Time Attack cars run BC's - but they're not the BR series which is what's being discussed here so it's no comparison.

If you want an honest opinion ask someone who's run more than one brand.


Mate, at the price you'll pay they'll all be much of a muchness. IMHO having had both BC's and RL's I'd say the latter appear better made - have photos of both installed.

Handling wise both are fine, although I'd say the BC's had more of a tendency to bounce than the RL's over undulations in the road as the damper appears slower to keep up (and I'll add regardless of what soft / hard setting is dialled in before I get jumped on again by the BC gang).

I must say I'm a little cheesed off being on the receiving end of so much grief and finger pointing here for offering what appears to be the only balanced opinion here between two sets of products.
The rest are mostly people banging on about how great BC's are, but what I'm surprised about is nobody's surfaced to talk about TEIN, Hotbits, Meister R's (although the latter are just re-branded BC's), etc.

You can shout until you're blue in the face that BC's are wonderful because they're on my car, but let's hear some honest views from people who have run BC's and have something else they can compare it to / ridden in someone's car with other brands.

I mean, if money's no object buy KW3's or Ohlins - but that's just what I hear.
My oh my you're a sensative defensive little soul aren't you.

There's so many innaccuracies in your statments I've lost count.

I've had BC's and I have so say they are astonishingly good value for money. I can't compare them to the RL offering as I have no experience of them but I can compare them to Tein coil overs, and Standard STI shocks with eiback and prodrive springs. In short the BC's were way ahead of the rest.

I would have taken your opinion seriously but you've over egged the RL's that much I'm beggining to think you have a covert vested interest there somewhere.

Also FYI the reason why RCM was mentioned is because they don't sell crap full stop. If BC's were sh*te RCM wouldn't sell them no matter how much they made. I know this as fact and spoke to Oli at some length over the matter. And before you go thinking it was sales patter I'd already bought them from Bren.

That said, I'm now in the market for some for a new car and would consider a set of RL if they are as good as you say they are. so far though, you're the only one saying it.
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Old 20 October 2012, 06:23 AM
  #62  
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@SloSTI

Review is good as people do review,we are bought HSD HR just due reviews on the UK(Mitsubishi),AUS(Subaru) and USA(all sort the cars)forums,first drive home has been much more firmer than we are expected(but this can be just due we are running bucket seats),on the track they're just awesome,on B-roads still they're working as should,but as I said they're firmer...For comparison we are tried them on the friend EVO and on his EVO has been amazingly much better than on our wagon,I've tried several setups on our HR,but still they're as I said firmer.

Tein Basic are probably one coilover type which is Made in Taiwan,usually more expensive kits are Made in Japan

I wouldn't be surprised if RL are made in same company as BC/D2/K-Sport and Meister/Stance

For GDB Ohlins making coilovers(Ohlins Flag-I),but don't expect price like for RL/BC etc,they're cost in region £3500,for those money I would go with Nitron R1/R3

If you are thinking lowering the car,would say Roll centre Kit is needed and really worth the extra money for this kit


Jura
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Old 21 October 2012, 02:15 AM
  #63  
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@Bugeye_Scoob

Yes, suggested drop is a bit larger.
EUDM hawkeye STI models over here sports heights of 380/350 mm. My guess is that UK model has the same ground clearance.
So for us suggested drop means 40/30 mm.
Red Prodrive springs lower the car for 15/10 mm, whereas RB320 kit makes it 30/10 mm.
Please note that Prodrive products tends to equal f/r height and this philosophy was much debated since to much front drop shifts braking force bias to the front brakes.
Prodrive’s engineers denied that possibility though during my inquiries.
Roll centre adjustment kit might be a good upgrade but since I am group N regulations freak it was not on my list.

@jura11

Hey jura11,
I am glad that HSD HRs are working well for you. Admittedly I’ve heard for this brand now for the first time. Thank you for the impressions about those. Maybe on EVO those work better as EVO became such a heavy cow in his last edition.

I doubt that RLs are made by BC due so many design differences (from shock travel independent height settings, solidity of rings etc.).
I know Ohlins are quite different ball game in terms of price but DFV valved model is available in New Zealand for 4.400 NZD =aprox. 2.200 GBP.

With RB320 set my car is lowered now for 30/10 mm, so suggested coilovers height values would mean additional marginal 10/20 mm of drop.
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Old 21 October 2012, 10:48 AM
  #64  
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Interesting reading, has anyone had a failure of the adjusting ring on the Bc's these seem to have been the choice for most on a classic, the rl's look and sound positive just sad they don't have extended adjusters.
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Old 21 October 2012, 10:56 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by dazdavies View Post

I've had BC's and I have so say they are astonishingly good value for money. I can't compare them to the RL offering as I have no experience of them but I can compare them to Tein coil overs, and Standard STI shocks with eiback and prodrive springs. In short the BC's were way ahead of the rest.
Hmm intresting, when you say bc are better that teins what model teins are you speaking of and bc model also that you are comparing?

Personally i would say the tein mono flex come on top of these you are stating and then kw 3 for one better.
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Old 21 October 2012, 07:15 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by bustaMOVEs View Post
Hmm intresting, when you say bc are better that teins what model teins are you speaking of and bc model also that you are comparing?

Personally i would say the tein mono flex come on top of these you are stating and then kw 3 for one better.

I had the BC RM (inverted setup) which I thought were very good. The Tein's were one of the older offerings and they were good I just found the BC's better.

I'm not advocating that the BC's are the best thing there is. On the flip though side just because someone doesn't get on with them doesn't mean they're shoite either as they most definetly are not.
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Old 21 October 2012, 08:39 PM
  #67  
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I found Tein Street were crap, and thats without the fact they are near on un repairable when you consider the cost per strut, think its 120 per shock.

I last bought a set of BCs and they were they basic ones, but yet had height, dampning, and corner weight adj, cheaper than Teins to buy, better spec, and i think 50 quid per strut for rebuild, found that first 3 or 4 clicks were softer than Standard Blob Sti suspension and found them absolutly brilliant for where i live and the crap roads i use.
Hope thats of some help
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Old 21 October 2012, 11:24 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by dazdavies View Post
I had the BC RM (inverted setup) which I thought were very good. The Tein's were one of the older offerings and they were good I just found the BC's better.
Q
I'm not advocating that the BC's are the best thing there is. On the flip though side just because someone doesn't get on with them doesn't mean they're shoite either as they most definetly are not.
First off i think this thread is compairing to the br series where i think all the problems are occuring with each individual customer, the rm series i know is better, but you pay more for better obviously and i think everyones going for the cheaper models and giving their feedback.
I can belive the rm series are good as they are more capable of absorbing the damping better than the br versions, so agree on that, but never tried RL so cant compare either.

Just wanted to clarify the model of teins you was compairing to ( older version, what model?) as i know the superstreet are known to be harsh but the monoflex ive been in and got to say they are no comparasation to any bcs.

Last edited by bustaMOVEs; 21 October 2012 at 11:37 PM.
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Old 22 October 2012, 06:40 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by dazdavies View Post
My oh my you're a sensative defensive little soul aren't you.

There's so many innaccuracies in your statments I've lost count.
tbh Daz, I just didn't appreciate a few people effectively accusing me of talking crap but then shouting on about how great the setup is on their car. I offered a point of view from my perspective, which was what I thought this forum was all about. We're all adults here!

Given that I know you're someone who's built a car from the ground up, and will thus likely have far more mechanical knowledge than myself (read your project thread and saw your car featured in JP), I'll be happy to have you to correct anything I've stated inaccurately as far as you're aware

And at the end of the line - if people think I'm wrong they'll make their own informed choice anyway.
I'm sure many will be happy with BC's; there is certainly plenty of feedback on them online to draw conclusions from and they're an established product.

Originally Posted by dazdavies View Post
I've had BC's and I have so say they are astonishingly good value for money. I can't compare them to the RL offering as I have no experience of them but I can compare them to Tein coil overs, and Standard STI shocks with eiback and prodrive springs. In short the BC's were way ahead of the rest.
I nearly swapped mine over from my old car as they cost me £590 in the Apex group buy, but then after test driving a blob STI with Tein springs on I relented and left them on. Typically, 2 months later they started knocking to hell.

I did then investigate going to BC's with a 4/3 setup, but on speaking with Bren @ Japfest he seemed to think this would take a while to sort out and didn't seem convinced he'd be able to do it on a newage and I'd have to go 5/4 again (which incidentally, is another point several haven't picked up on but I think there is a real difference between classic and newage on this given the weight difference).
Maybe a 6/5 rate would have been better, who knows I had 5/4 I can only base my experience on that setup.

Originally Posted by dazdavies View Post
I would have taken your opinion seriously but you've over egged the RL's that much I'm beggining to think you have a covert vested interest there somewhere.
Honestly, the only reason I bought them was because I was offered a decent deal at Japfest. There was a Tegiwa stand there and a BC stand there (Apex Performance). Luke from Tegiwa offered me a sufficiently cheaper price than Bren did and the RL's just looked a bit beefier.
There wasn't a lot to go on when I researched it online (as you doubtless have), but I took a chance. Nothing more to it than that.
I don't have the money to build my car all in one go, so it's a piece at a time, and these sat under my stairs for a few months before I'd saved enough to then go and get them fitted and aligned.
Price was therefore a major factor.

Originally Posted by dazdavies View Post
Also FYI the reason why RCM was mentioned is because they don't sell crap full stop. If BC's were sh*te RCM wouldn't sell them no matter how much they made. I know this as fact and spoke to Oli at some length over the matter. And before you go thinking it was sales patter I'd already bought them from Bren.
Yeah alright, I know I didn't put that point across particularly well, and I know they don't sell crap.
I have tremendous respect for RCM following what I've read, heard about them and having seen first hand some of the cars they've worked on.
I happen to also be of the opinion ScoobyClinic don't sell cack either, but both sets are budget shocks, regardless of who's selling them.
Based on above though, point on making money cheerfully withdrawn

Originally Posted by dazdavies View Post
That said, I'm now in the market for some for a new car and would consider a set of RL if they are as good as you say they are. so far though, you're the only one saying it.
Like I said, I took a chance; I'm happy with what I've got.
Maybe for some they won't be "hardcore" enough, but I guess like the BC's you choose your spring setup. There is no 5/4 or equivalent as I asked, so I (and very tentatively) went for 6/5's - I even phoned their number in Oz to ask some questions and spoke to someone running them on his Foz!
Was actually pleasantly surprised when they eventually got fitted, which in the car world doesn't happen often to me (ask JGM lol).
I had some initial teething problems with spring noise, but some revised top mounts (FOC) were supplied to cure that; as said, not a particularly mature product yet perhaps, but other than that, happy days.

Few links here I found from Googling a couple of forums; like you say they don't seem all that widespread on here, but think they're still relatively new compared to BC's?
http://www.rexnet.com.au/forum/index...er-suspension/
http://www.hondacivicforum.co.uk/vie...93ecf18f91f478
http://lancerregister.com/showthread.php?t=412096

Oh and @Jura - visually they are very different from the BC range (see links above) so doubt same factory (D2 / K-Sport...maybe?).

Last edited by MrNoisy; 22 October 2012 at 06:52 PM.
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Old 22 October 2012, 08:23 PM
  #70  
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RL Review I like the most can be found here.

Unbiased review with pics which also directly compare RL and D2(BC).
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Old 22 October 2012, 09:18 PM
  #71  
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Here is picture comparison between the HSD and RL,as I said both are very similar

HSD HR Locking ring



RL Locking Ring



Whole coilovers looking both similar and both companies are from Australia



Jura
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Old 22 October 2012, 10:13 PM
  #72  
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Yep. Only thing I'd add to that is locking rings on RL's look thicker and the dust boots on the HSD's look slightly more plasticky although I'd need a better picture to do a proper comparison.
If I compare how the old BC's looked to the RL's when both arrived in boxes the main differences I'd cite were that the RL locking rings are much thicker, with less (and thicker) ridges on the locking rings for the C Spanners.

Better comparison would be a side by side picture showing the entire damper assembly; I'll see if I can photoshop something from some pics I took of both in their boxes when they arrived, that's if I can still find the pics of my BC's - old phone, few years back.

@ Sweden - I did find that the BC spanners did slip on the locking rings every now and then when adjusting, and the rings were quite soft so they would mark it a tad, but never heard of locking ring failure.

Last edited by MrNoisy; 23 October 2012 at 10:08 AM.
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Old 26 October 2012, 10:53 AM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by jura11 View Post
Here is picture comparison between the HSD and RL,as I said both are very similar

HSD HR Locking ring

RL Locking Ring

Whole coilovers looking both similar and both companies are from Australia
No, they aren't. HSDs are manufactured in South Korea by HD Systems and are nothing to do with Racing Logic.
Also I wouldn't read too much into the spring rates as direct comparisons between brands - springs and dampers are designed to work together so if the spring rate is 1kg/mm firmer, it's quite likely that the damper is built to work with that and doesn't in any way mean that the ride will be too firm!
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Old 27 October 2012, 07:21 AM
  #74  
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Another useful review
P.S.:
It seems that all coilovers reviews on every forum tend to turn into other's guy choice bashing
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Old 27 October 2013, 07:27 PM
  #75  
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Mr Noisey how do you find these coilovers a year later?

Are they still performing well?

Thanks
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Old 04 June 2014, 07:13 PM
  #76  
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At the risk of starting the my BCs are better than yours debate, I'm interested to hear from MrNoisy how the RLs have been long term. Would you still recommend them for comfort?

I've gone from ASTs (better than standard but still too hard) to BCs on 5/4 springs with rear rubber top mount (better than ASTs but still too hard) and now, as a result of a damaged strut, I need to purchase at least 2 new fronts (to maintain a reasonable balance) and am wondering about the Racing Logics you were advocating a couple of years ago.

Does anyone know where you can get them ideally with fitting?

As I've mentioned a number of times, my Classic WRX JDM had what I considered to be the perfect setup between firm for roadholding but compliant for comfort and would love to get somewhere near it.
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Old 06 June 2014, 10:33 AM
  #77  
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Just saw this thread which was from a while back, just thought I touch up on a few things.

Originally Posted by MrNoisy View Post
Meister R's and BC's = same kit from what I've seen and heard; a few posts I've put up have seen others telling me the same thing, and certainly in pics they appear nearly identical bar colour scheme!
Just to say… No.
Just because they look the same, it doesn't mean they are the same kit.
MeisterR have our own design and specification, so just because they look the same it doesn't mean they will ride or perform the same.

I am sure some of you know now, but just thought I say this again.


Originally Posted by gdavey View Post
I've gone from ASTs (better than standard but still too hard) to BCs on 5/4 springs with rear rubber top mount (better than ASTs but still too hard) and now, as a result of a damaged strut, I need to purchase at least 2 new fronts (to maintain a reasonable balance) and am wondering about the Racing Logics you were advocating a couple of years ago.
I would suggest against fitting 2 RL front and keep 2 BC rear.
While they may work, mixing suspension brand are never really a good idea as it can lead to imbalanced bias that can cause unpredictable handling characteristic.

Better to get 4 new one as they should be design to work together, and if they are new they should have a warranty also just to cover you in case anything goes wrong.


Jerrick
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Old 06 June 2014, 01:52 PM
  #78  
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DO NOT buy RL coilovers until I have a chance to write my full review, then you can decide for yourself. I'll try and post later today.
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Old 09 June 2014, 12:43 PM
  #79  
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... advice still stands. I need to attach pics etc so will try and write up soon.
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Old 09 June 2014, 07:23 PM
  #80  
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So, here are my findings with the Racing Logic Hyper Street coilovers. I'm not even going to bother reviewing the ride etc as it's not relevant. Let me explain.

I would like to emphasise that this is not a slagging off of any sort, merely a neutral report of my experience.

I bought the coilovers in December 2013 online from Tegiwa Imports. As far as I know they are your only option for buying new in the UK. The coilovers were sent back fairly sharpish as Tegiwa sent me the STi shocks by mistake (different hub fitting). No problems there and a fairly painless exchange.

Due to various unrelated issues the coilovers were not fitted until February 2014. Everything seemed well aside from a little bit of a knock which I emailed Tegiwa about. They recommended checking the torque settings on the various bolts etc. Again, no great problem and everything was checked for tightness. Didn't fix it.

A few weeks back before the 4 day Bank Hol weekend I was driving when all of a sudden a horrendous knocking started from the rear shocks, like metal on metal. I took the back seats out to find the top mount had completely come apart. The pics below explain.

Here are the component top mount parts.



The unit fits together like this.



The rubber had pushed apart to allow the metal sleeve to knock against the green metal mount.



I took the car into the garage and they diagnosed that these rubber bushes had pushed themselves apart. It's probably easier to introduce an exploding diagram at this point to explain the issue. Because I'm that sort of person, I took a bloomin' long time sourcing this myself from a really helpful guy in the Racing Logic factory (in Taiwan or something? Massive thanks to Dennis who was brilliant help).



The rear shock is shown on the left. As you can see, there should be a washer '3' sitting underneath the rubber bush/mount assembly. My garage said it seemed like there should indeed be a washer here to stop the main shock pulling down on the lower rubber bush. You can see a little neck on the shock where the washer would sit.

So, rewind- I spoke to Matt at Tegiwa and explained that the top mounts had come apart. He stated that it sounded like the part had failed so they would send a new one straight out to me. As far as they were concerned, there should be no washer in place under the bottom rubber bush. I received an email on the Thursday(?) with a UPS tracking number for my new top mounts. Great!

The following Thursday nothing had arrived. I called Tegiwa but Matt was not in at that time. I emailed him direct.

I received no reply so called on Friday 2nd May. I spoke to Luke (Director I believe). He said he was aware of my issue but Matt did not have my contact details. Odd I thought, as I had received the UPS tracking via email and had ordered online in the first place. Anyway, they had a mount laying about but were not sure for which RL coilovers they were. I was asked to measure the bolts of my mounts and call back, which I did within about 10 minutes.

By Tuesday 6th May I had received no update so I phoned and spoke to Matt. He said the new mounts were being sent out by 4pm that day. I raised the issue of compensation for me having to pay for labour and he said they would need to speak to RL.

A couple of more days later and the mounts had not arrived. Turns out they were delivered straight to my garage. Not a problem, perhaps even handy!

The garage fitted the new top mounts and rang Tegiwa themselves to check that nothing was missing in the kit. In their opinion there was nothing to stop the new mounts coming apart again. The garage were told again that there was no bottom washer to stop the bottom rubber bung coming out.

As stated I did my own digging following this as it seemed bizarre. I got hold of Dennis at RL. He confirmed there should be a washer under the bottom rubber bung and sent through my diagram.

I spoke to Matt on Monday 2nd June. I emailed the exploded diagram through and pointed out the relevant washer. I can only presume the coilovers came out the factory like that and passed the quality check, as neither Tegiwa or my mechanics have had any cause to strip any of the coilover. IN FAIRNESS to Tegiwa, the washer is in fact hidden under dust boot '7', so you might never know it was there unless you looked or took the coilover apart. I again spoke about compensation for the extra labour induced to fix a faulty product and Matt said he would need to speak to the directors as it was not his area to decide.

I called back later that day and spoke to Luke, who did not know who I was. He put me on hold for a short time until he spoke to Matt. He put me back on and said they would speak to RL and get back to me.

A few days ago I received an email from Matt stating that RL had authorised a £100 refund. Labour cost me around £160 but I guess that's better than nothing. I received the money the same day via paypal. I was also told 'Racing Logic Europe is no more, they want to focus more on racing applications'.

So if you've stuck with me so far, there are three main reasons in my opinion to steer clear of this product.
1. Racing Logic Europe is no more, so there is likely to be little/no more support
2. My coilovers had a component part missing, which speaks volumes about quality control
3. Trying to speak to anyone that had expert knowledge was bloody hard work. RL's website is pretty useless and Tegiwa themselves were not aware of this washer being a component part. Who does that leave to ask for help if needed?

Other than that I actually think the coilovers are pretty good, and the garage said they seem up to a good build standard (now they're sorted!). Again I am giving neither a positive or negative review of Tegiwa, this is just my opinion. I'm sure they have many satisfied customers. If you do have cause to use them then Matt is approachable and seems genuinely willing to help. Would I use them again? Depends what product but ultimately "yes".

Thanks for reading! If anyone would like to ask further questions please do. If any Racing Logic owners need answers then I can put you through to Dennis.
Best of luck to all hunting for their coilovers.

Last edited by PageyWRX05; 09 June 2014 at 08:15 PM. Reason: image links again
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Old 09 June 2014, 08:58 PM
  #81  
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I wonder why scoobyclinic stopped selling these, is it because RL is no more?
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Old 09 June 2014, 09:55 PM
  #82  
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Yes I read that too. Maybe either foresight of RL's future, knowledge of quality or lack of sales I guess. I think Tegiwa are the sole UK distributor. Maybe RL will only let one co. deal at a time and a move was made by Tegiwa.
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Old 15 April 2019, 11:29 AM
  #83  
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Check out this post I made, it lists some of the best coilovers on the market.
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