How to buy an expensive car!
15 November 2010, 10:51 AM
#123
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Mitchy, I popped into my local Audi garage today whilst I've been putting the 530d through its paces. They happened to have the TT RS in there so I thought about you and had a look around it.
I'm not sure how you are going to squeeze your kids into the back of that because it seemed like there was less room than a 911. Also I found it to be a little ergonomically flawed, I had to lean forward to reach some of the *****, maybe I've been spoiled by the bimmer I'm testing as that seems to be perfection in this regard.
The sticker price was circa £55k as it had the £3k+ sports seats (that did look the business).
I suppose if it's as fast and fun as you say then all the things I've just said fade into insignificance!
I'm not sure how you are going to squeeze your kids into the back of that because it seemed like there was less room than a 911. Also I found it to be a little ergonomically flawed, I had to lean forward to reach some of the *****, maybe I've been spoiled by the bimmer I'm testing as that seems to be perfection in this regard.
The sticker price was circa £55k as it had the £3k+ sports seats (that did look the business).
I suppose if it's as fast and fun as you say then all the things I've just said fade into insignificance!
As to the TT interior, I love it, I can't think of any other car comparable within the same price range. The Jap stuff is plain cheap and nasty, (370Z/GTR) I'm not a fan of the bland boring beemer interiors and it's a nicer place to be imo than the Porka Cayman, the TT's main rival so to speak. I haven't found any issues ergonomically, everything in reach.
£55k is too much for a TT, I'd hope that would be offered with at least a 10% discount taking it under £50k. Compare the TTRS to a Cayman S, and it beats it in every aspect to which I think it is a performance bargain.
£55k for a Golf
I can't see the resemblance myself, it's just like saying an R8 is an A3.Some TTRS reviews...
Evo magazine long termer... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbn6P8UNth0
Jason Plato rates it above the Cayman in the 5th gear link here http://fwd.five.tv/fifth-gear/videos/other/audi-tt-rs
Overall, the RS offers an excellent package in my opinion. It has comparable performance to the R8 but at a fraction of the cost, both purchase and running.
Last edited by Mitchy260; 15 November 2010 at 10:57 AM.
15 November 2010, 10:56 AM
#124
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We are an extremely rare "breed" in the similar (but more modest!) boat as John Banks.
Rent a place (very roughly £600k's worth, £1000 a month, claim some back as office rent), have saved enough to buy outright (somewhere small at present though!), no interest in buying at the moment, won't ever buy a car on finance again (cash or 0% ONLY) and don't consider renting to be a daft option at all.
1) Cheap but extremely nice house
2) Cheap but very nice office
3) Hate debt with a passion - a mortage IS debt
4) Housing market is utterly bu66ered - it's about to get much worse
5) Believe in working for money, not hoping a house will do it for you
6) Seeing lots of previously well off people get stuffed with a house they can't sell
7) The "sheep" mentality of our society is what has partially caused this recession - "must buy a house, must not rent."
8) House prices are going to tumble waaaay more than they already have.
9) Errrmmm - I've bored myself now. What was the original topic?
Rent a place (very roughly £600k's worth, £1000 a month, claim some back as office rent), have saved enough to buy outright (somewhere small at present though!), no interest in buying at the moment, won't ever buy a car on finance again (cash or 0% ONLY) and don't consider renting to be a daft option at all.
1) Cheap but extremely nice house
2) Cheap but very nice office
3) Hate debt with a passion - a mortage IS debt
4) Housing market is utterly bu66ered - it's about to get much worse
5) Believe in working for money, not hoping a house will do it for you
6) Seeing lots of previously well off people get stuffed with a house they can't sell
7) The "sheep" mentality of our society is what has partially caused this recession - "must buy a house, must not rent."
8) House prices are going to tumble waaaay more than they already have.
9) Errrmmm - I've bored myself now. What was the original topic?
15 November 2010, 11:05 AM
#125
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We are an extremely rare "breed" in the similar (but more modest!) boat as John Banks.
Rent a place (very roughly £600k's worth, £1000 a month, claim some back as office rent), have saved enough to buy outright (somewhere small at present though!), no interest in buying at the moment, won't ever buy a car on finance again (cash or 0% ONLY) and don't consider renting to be a daft option at all.
1) Cheap but extremely nice house
2) Cheap but very nice office
3) Hate debt with a passion - a mortage IS debt
4) Housing market is utterly bu66ered - it's about to get much worse
5) Believe in working for money, not hoping a house will do it for you
6) Seeing lots of previously well off people get stuffed with a house they can't sell
7) The "sheep" mentality of our society is what has partially caused this recession - "must buy a house, must not rent."
8) House prices are going to tumble waaaay more than they already have.
9) Errrmmm - I've bored myself now. What was the original topic?
Rent a place (very roughly £600k's worth, £1000 a month, claim some back as office rent), have saved enough to buy outright (somewhere small at present though!), no interest in buying at the moment, won't ever buy a car on finance again (cash or 0% ONLY) and don't consider renting to be a daft option at all.
1) Cheap but extremely nice house
2) Cheap but very nice office
3) Hate debt with a passion - a mortage IS debt
4) Housing market is utterly bu66ered - it's about to get much worse
5) Believe in working for money, not hoping a house will do it for you
6) Seeing lots of previously well off people get stuffed with a house they can't sell
7) The "sheep" mentality of our society is what has partially caused this recession - "must buy a house, must not rent."
8) House prices are going to tumble waaaay more than they already have.
9) Errrmmm - I've bored myself now. What was the original topic?
Factor that in against those that pay off their mortgages within 15-20yrs or so and buying makes more financial sense.15/20/25yrs of mortgage payments vs 50/60/70 yrs worth of rent and then nothing to show for it at the end.
Swings and roundabouts, the majority of people do not rent mini mansions for peanuts.
Nice detached house in Aberdeen, £2750pm http://www-t.aspc.co.uk/cgi-bin/publ...GJLMND#picture
I mean who on earth came up with that figure? This particular house cant be worth more than £400k say and is in good need of modernisation inside. Some oil rich monkey will pay that amount though.
Last edited by Mitchy260; 15 November 2010 at 11:09 AM.
15 November 2010, 11:17 AM
#126
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The resemblance is that they share the same floorplan. It's called platform engineering. Take a platform - make lots of cars from it at different price points and niches. From an engineering perspective the TT has a lot on common with the Golf, and the A3 now you mention it. Neither have much in common with the R8.
So is it not at all like saying an R8 is like an A3
PS Edited to add that it does show that VAG marketing is working to a tee!
Last edited by Trout; 15 November 2010 at 11:18 AM.
15 November 2010, 11:19 AM
#127
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£1000pcm here for a 5 bedroom house with 5 acres of grounds, 2 miles from a nice city (a small one), can't see another house from anywhere in the grounds, river views, etc, etc.
As we claim back a fair chunk for the business, we pay naff all ourselves and the business pays naff all for office rent yet the business makes us decent money. It's a no brainer. The "excess" goes into savings. At the "end" we'll buy a house outright, have lived in a nice gaff for years (we might buy this place eventually) and paid far less in rent that we would have done interest on a big mortgage.
Don't forget the HUGE amount you'll have paid in mortgage interest - we'll have paid zilch. Don't forget the HUGE amount you pay in fees/stamp duty/etc to move house - we'll have paid next to nowt. Don't forget the large amount you pay to maintain and "improve" a house - we'll have paid nothing.
Also don't forget that your house is almost certainly dropping in value -probably more than most cars.
£2750pcm for a £400k house is utterly utterly nuts. That gets you a million quid plus pad down here.
As we claim back a fair chunk for the business, we pay naff all ourselves and the business pays naff all for office rent yet the business makes us decent money. It's a no brainer. The "excess" goes into savings. At the "end" we'll buy a house outright, have lived in a nice gaff for years (we might buy this place eventually) and paid far less in rent that we would have done interest on a big mortgage.
Don't forget the HUGE amount you'll have paid in mortgage interest - we'll have paid zilch. Don't forget the HUGE amount you pay in fees/stamp duty/etc to move house - we'll have paid next to nowt. Don't forget the large amount you pay to maintain and "improve" a house - we'll have paid nothing.
Also don't forget that your house is almost certainly dropping in value -probably more than most cars.
£2750pcm for a £400k house is utterly utterly nuts. That gets you a million quid plus pad down here.
Last edited by Matteeboy; 15 November 2010 at 11:21 AM.
15 November 2010, 11:22 AM
#128
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I'm not planning on renting for that long, my first mortgage was nominal by 30 years old (not showing off by saying that, it was bought for a good price - 2 * joint new graduate income for a 3 bed detached - when interest rates were high and falling and we spent less than we earned and continued to do so as salaries increased as they tend(ed) too after you graduated then, many people could have done it at that time, few did as most were gorging on debt when they needed to use such benign times to setup their finances hopefully for life).
I wouldn't pay £2750 for that, there are plenty of examples of property to rent where people ask for a value that may cover their mortgage, doesn't mean they'll get it or that everyone will pay that much.
Depending on the point in the property cycle, buying is usually better value over the long term, but it isn't so terrible to rent, it gives tremendous flexibility and no maintenance/buildings insurance costs. Even then, not all people who rent are the same, not all of them are people that can't save up a deposit and get a mortgage. For some, and more in recent years it is an informed choice.
I wouldn't pay £2750 for that, there are plenty of examples of property to rent where people ask for a value that may cover their mortgage, doesn't mean they'll get it or that everyone will pay that much.
Depending on the point in the property cycle, buying is usually better value over the long term, but it isn't so terrible to rent, it gives tremendous flexibility and no maintenance/buildings insurance costs. Even then, not all people who rent are the same, not all of them are people that can't save up a deposit and get a mortgage. For some, and more in recent years it is an informed choice.
15 November 2010, 11:58 AM
#130
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£1000pcm here for a 5 bedroom house with 5 acres of grounds, 2 miles from a nice city (a small one), can't see another house from anywhere in the grounds, river views, etc, etc.
As we claim back a fair chunk for the business, we pay naff all ourselves and the business pays naff all for office rent yet the business makes us decent money. It's a no brainer. The "excess" goes into savings. At the "end" we'll buy a house outright, have lived in a nice gaff for years (we might buy this place eventually) and paid far less in rent that we would have done interest on a big mortgage.
Don't forget the HUGE amount you'll have paid in mortgage interest - we'll have paid zilch. Don't forget the HUGE amount you pay in fees/stamp duty/etc to move house - we'll have paid next to nowt. Don't forget the large amount you pay to maintain and "improve" a house - we'll have paid nothing.
Also don't forget that your house is almost certainly dropping in value -probably more than most cars.
£2750pcm for a £400k house is utterly utterly nuts. That gets you a million quid plus pad down here.
As we claim back a fair chunk for the business, we pay naff all ourselves and the business pays naff all for office rent yet the business makes us decent money. It's a no brainer. The "excess" goes into savings. At the "end" we'll buy a house outright, have lived in a nice gaff for years (we might buy this place eventually) and paid far less in rent that we would have done interest on a big mortgage.
Don't forget the HUGE amount you'll have paid in mortgage interest - we'll have paid zilch. Don't forget the HUGE amount you pay in fees/stamp duty/etc to move house - we'll have paid next to nowt. Don't forget the large amount you pay to maintain and "improve" a house - we'll have paid nothing.
Also don't forget that your house is almost certainly dropping in value -probably more than most cars.
£2750pcm for a £400k house is utterly utterly nuts. That gets you a million quid plus pad down here.
I rebought at that point and dont think I have lost anything, the indexes show the area is up 5% YOY so I think waiting on a housing crash takes a lot of *****. Had I shared your opinion 3yrs or so ago, I would be £75k out of pocket at the very least.
As to huge amount of interest? We have had record lows of 0.5% for nearly the last 2yrs. 1-4% mortgage rates for many and heavily overpaying, cuts the terms significantly for most so yes you are right, you may well pay £300-350k overall on a £200k mortgage but as mortgage payments are fixed, they tend to drop over the years with equity increase. In a rental market, they tend to increase with inflation exponentially.
With new build houses, there really is very very little maintenance to be done. Decorating? Well I suspect you'll decorate your rented home to your tastes too
Long term renting really is a mugs game, rents only ever go up and it's dead money in respects to you not having an asset at the end of it.You're right, in a falling market it's better off to rent, but we are up YOY in all the indexes, there is no housing crash, more of property stagnation over the last 2yrs or so. I remember reading posts of Johns back in 2007, I know he is in Scotland, I feel he has called it wrong although in his particular situation, he does appear to have a low rent on a high value house so perhaps not for him, only he will really know that.
Like I said, it's a whole other discussion and we can go on for days about the positives and negatives of renting vs buying.
Last edited by Mitchy260; 15 November 2010 at 12:08 PM.
15 November 2010, 12:16 PM
#131
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Matt, I bought my first property in Aberdeen in April 2007 for £186k and sold it in December 2009 for £237k. I hadn't spent a penny on it. (Peak Aberdeen and infact Scotland was around 3rd quarter of 2008 hence my gains) - hang on, you paid NO FEES to buy it, no mortgage interest, no estate agents commission to sell it, etc? Well done.
I rebought at that point and dont think I have lost anything, the indexes show the area is up 5% YOY so I think waiting on a housing crash takes a lot of *****. Had I shared your opinion 3yrs or so ago, I would be £75k out of pocket at the very least. Have you deducted all the interest and fees paid?
As to huge amount of interest? We have had record lows of 0.5% for nearly the last 2yrs. 1-4% mortgage rates for many and heavily overpaying, cuts the terms significantly for most so yes you are right, you may well pay £300-350k overall on a £200k mortgage but as mortgage payments are fixed, they tend to drop over the years with equity increase. In a rental market, they tend to increase with inflation exponentially. Why have we had record lows? Nothing is selling, the government is in the ****. Estate agents prices are a joke.
With new build houses, there really is very very little maintenance to be done. Decorating? Well I suspect you'll decorate your rented home to your tastes too Long term renting really is a mugs game, rents only ever go up and it's dead money in respects to you not having an asset at the end of it. We don't want to live in an anytown new build estate thanks.
You're right, in a falling market it's better off to rent, but we are up YOY in all the indexes, there is no housing crash, more of property stagnation over the last 2yrs or so. I remember reading posts of Johns back in 2007, I know he is in Scotland, I feel he has called it wrong although in his particular situation, he does appear to have a low rent on a high value house so perhaps not for him, only he will really know that. We are similar - low rent on a high value house that also benefits what really makes money - a business.
Like I said, it's a whole other discussion and we can go on for days about the positives and negatives of renting vs buying.
I rebought at that point and dont think I have lost anything, the indexes show the area is up 5% YOY so I think waiting on a housing crash takes a lot of *****. Had I shared your opinion 3yrs or so ago, I would be £75k out of pocket at the very least. Have you deducted all the interest and fees paid?
As to huge amount of interest? We have had record lows of 0.5% for nearly the last 2yrs. 1-4% mortgage rates for many and heavily overpaying, cuts the terms significantly for most so yes you are right, you may well pay £300-350k overall on a £200k mortgage but as mortgage payments are fixed, they tend to drop over the years with equity increase. In a rental market, they tend to increase with inflation exponentially. Why have we had record lows? Nothing is selling, the government is in the ****. Estate agents prices are a joke.
With new build houses, there really is very very little maintenance to be done. Decorating? Well I suspect you'll decorate your rented home to your tastes too
Long term renting really is a mugs game, rents only ever go up and it's dead money in respects to you not having an asset at the end of it. We don't want to live in an anytown new build estate thanks.You're right, in a falling market it's better off to rent, but we are up YOY in all the indexes, there is no housing crash, more of property stagnation over the last 2yrs or so. I remember reading posts of Johns back in 2007, I know he is in Scotland, I feel he has called it wrong although in his particular situation, he does appear to have a low rent on a high value house so perhaps not for him, only he will really know that. We are similar - low rent on a high value house that also benefits what really makes money - a business.
Like I said, it's a whole other discussion and we can go on for days about the positives and negatives of renting vs buying.
Yes people DO make a killing on property but it's also a complete life ruining disaster for many who are completely brainwashed into thinking owning (ahem - the mortgage company usually owns most of it) is a "right" and essential to everyone. It's not - some think a little differently. Neither are "wrong."
Last edited by Matteeboy; 15 November 2010 at 12:23 PM.
15 November 2010, 12:52 PM
#132
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Like I said, I bought a house for £186k in 2007 and sold it 2.5yrs later for £237k. Of course I paid fees and interest on the balance, but where on earth would you have expected me to live rent free for that time period? Had I not being paying off a mortgage balance, I sure as hell would have been paying off someone elses in money dead rental. The mortgage interest I was paying would have been less than the comparable rent that I would have had to have paid to live in the same property so I dont get your point?
The board was filled by opinions on the subject back in 2007. Had I listened to your advice, and people like yourself, I would still be renting having missed that opportunity. I wouldn't have an asset, I wouldn't have made £50k and my house on paper now anyway wouldn't be worth 5% more than what I paid for it 11 months ago now.
As to the merits of 'buying' a car on finance and investing the capital, we have already done this to death. Invest the capital, pay your lease costs or in my case PCP costs and there isn't at all that much difference so again I do not get your point. If you want to continue renting and tying up high value cash into heavily depreciating assets then who am I to argue? Likewise, who are you to say that I am making the wrong moves?
Last edited by Mitchy260; 15 November 2010 at 01:02 PM.
15 November 2010, 01:08 PM
#133
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The notion of rent = dead money is financially illiterate.
You are paying money to use a product, in this case accommodation, which is insured and maintained. Arguably in some ways not much different from PCP on a car except you're not paying interest, are not locked in for as long, don't have to insure it, maintain it and have legal title to it.
It is analagous to the mortgage interest + insurance + repairs, you simply don't share in the adjustment in capital value of the asset, whether that is up or down, and for exactly all the reasons you think owning property is great based on recent changes in value, I think it is a highly vulnerable, propped up by QE and ZIRP, but it is still an unpopped bubble in my eyes, so I'm not going to upgrade from a suburban small detached house to a large country house with land at this point as it is financial suicide.
In the present market that suits me just great whether you think I made the right call or not. I could buy back my old house for less than I sold it for. However, I believe the majority of the benefits from my decision are still to come to fruition.
You are paying money to use a product, in this case accommodation, which is insured and maintained. Arguably in some ways not much different from PCP on a car except you're not paying interest, are not locked in for as long, don't have to insure it, maintain it and have legal title to it.
It is analagous to the mortgage interest + insurance + repairs, you simply don't share in the adjustment in capital value of the asset, whether that is up or down, and for exactly all the reasons you think owning property is great based on recent changes in value, I think it is a highly vulnerable, propped up by QE and ZIRP, but it is still an unpopped bubble in my eyes, so I'm not going to upgrade from a suburban small detached house to a large country house with land at this point as it is financial suicide.
In the present market that suits me just great whether you think I made the right call or not. I could buy back my old house for less than I sold it for. However, I believe the majority of the benefits from my decision are still to come to fruition.
15 November 2010, 01:13 PM
#134
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Mitchy - You try selling your house for that "5% more" value today - go on, put it on the market as a tester for that price. I can guarantee you'll get no enquiries at all.
£50k on paper? See that's the key - on paper. I would be extremely surprised if you could get £180k for that house now. Prices in many places have dropped well below inflated 2007 figures.
You are of the mindset that getting loaned up to the eyeballs is fine. We are not. No debts, money ready to buy a house when the time is right. If work dries up, we can downsize in a matter of weeks and live off savings.
It's not "right" but it's far safer and we are realistic about what makes real money - work and the business, not wildly obscured house price figures and pie in the sky "facts" about the market.
Yes I put the case a little strongly but hey ho, it gets the point across.
However on the car you are paying interest (a lot of it) on a heavily depreciating asset - we aren't. We own the cars, not a finance company. They are ours. Tying up high value cash? Well it's earning naff all in the bank and it would be falling on a house. We'd rather spend it on something we enjoy and something we can call our own. We'll eventually just buy a place with savings. Could be soon, might be a while.
Once again, we (and I suspect others in agreement here) have no debts and a chunk of savings. You are living on the never never and looking to "buy" a car on some crazy lease deal. Yes neither of us is wrong but I suspect many might not opt for your "position." You are far from alone - thousands are in this position. Relying on house price rises to finance their future yet looking at monthly repayments (not money wasted on interest) alone when it comes to financing. Buying a high value car like a TTRS on the never never is insane IMO.
Trout and John seem to agree on this too - a pair I would call pretty financially astute.
£50k on paper? See that's the key - on paper. I would be extremely surprised if you could get £180k for that house now. Prices in many places have dropped well below inflated 2007 figures.
You are of the mindset that getting loaned up to the eyeballs is fine. We are not. No debts, money ready to buy a house when the time is right. If work dries up, we can downsize in a matter of weeks and live off savings.
It's not "right" but it's far safer and we are realistic about what makes real money - work and the business, not wildly obscured house price figures and pie in the sky "facts" about the market.
Yes I put the case a little strongly but hey ho, it gets the point across.
However on the car you are paying interest (a lot of it) on a heavily depreciating asset - we aren't. We own the cars, not a finance company. They are ours. Tying up high value cash? Well it's earning naff all in the bank and it would be falling on a house. We'd rather spend it on something we enjoy and something we can call our own. We'll eventually just buy a place with savings. Could be soon, might be a while.
Once again, we (and I suspect others in agreement here) have no debts and a chunk of savings. You are living on the never never and looking to "buy" a car on some crazy lease deal. Yes neither of us is wrong but I suspect many might not opt for your "position." You are far from alone - thousands are in this position. Relying on house price rises to finance their future yet looking at monthly repayments (not money wasted on interest) alone when it comes to financing. Buying a high value car like a TTRS on the never never is insane IMO.
Trout and John seem to agree on this too - a pair I would call pretty financially astute.
Last edited by Matteeboy; 15 November 2010 at 01:25 PM.
15 November 2010, 01:32 PM
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Trout probably has a plan to lease a GT2 RS for £500 a month, then somehow have a buy option at half its original price and then sell it at double list or something 
15 November 2010, 01:55 PM
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Mitchy - You try selling your house for that "5% more" value today - go on, put it on the market as a tester for that price. I can guarantee you'll get no enquiries at all.
£50k on paper? See that's the key - on paper. I would be extremely surprised if you could get £180k for that house now. Prices in many places have dropped well below inflated 2007 figures.
You are of the mindset that getting loaned up to the eyeballs is fine. We are not. No debts, money ready to buy a house when the time is right. If work dries up, we can downsize in a matter of weeks and live off savings.
It's not "right" but it's far safer and we are realistic about what makes real money - work and the business, not wildly obscured house price figures and pie in the sky "facts" about the market.
Yes I put the case a little strongly but hey ho, it gets the point across.
However on the car you are paying interest (a lot of it) on a heavily depreciating asset - we aren't. We own the cars, not a finance company. They are ours. Tying up high value cash? Well it's earning naff all in the bank and it would be falling on a house. We'd rather spend it on something we enjoy and something we can call our own. We'll eventually just buy a place with savings. Could be soon, might be a while.
Once again, we (and I suspect others in agreement here) have no debts and a chunk of savings. You are living on the never never and looking to "buy" a car on some crazy lease deal. Yes neither of us is wrong but I suspect many might not opt for your "position." You are far from alone - thousands are in this position. Relying on house price rises to finance their future yet looking at monthly repayments (not money wasted on interest) alone when it comes to financing. Buying a high value car like a TTRS on the never never is insane IMO.
Trout and John seem to agree on this too - a pair I would call pretty financially astute.
£50k on paper? See that's the key - on paper. I would be extremely surprised if you could get £180k for that house now. Prices in many places have dropped well below inflated 2007 figures.
You are of the mindset that getting loaned up to the eyeballs is fine. We are not. No debts, money ready to buy a house when the time is right. If work dries up, we can downsize in a matter of weeks and live off savings.
It's not "right" but it's far safer and we are realistic about what makes real money - work and the business, not wildly obscured house price figures and pie in the sky "facts" about the market.
Yes I put the case a little strongly but hey ho, it gets the point across.
However on the car you are paying interest (a lot of it) on a heavily depreciating asset - we aren't. We own the cars, not a finance company. They are ours. Tying up high value cash? Well it's earning naff all in the bank and it would be falling on a house. We'd rather spend it on something we enjoy and something we can call our own. We'll eventually just buy a place with savings. Could be soon, might be a while.
Once again, we (and I suspect others in agreement here) have no debts and a chunk of savings. You are living on the never never and looking to "buy" a car on some crazy lease deal. Yes neither of us is wrong but I suspect many might not opt for your "position." You are far from alone - thousands are in this position. Relying on house price rises to finance their future yet looking at monthly repayments (not money wasted on interest) alone when it comes to financing. Buying a high value car like a TTRS on the never never is insane IMO.
Trout and John seem to agree on this too - a pair I would call pretty financially astute.
You should go back through the thread and re-read. I can make £1800pa after all deductions by putting a £37k deposit into a property in Aberdeen. Multiply that by 4 and that is at the very minimum £6.4k without inflationary increases in rent. The finance costs are £6.7k so all in all it would even itself out.
We have been through this already.
As to the car, I am not having £37k tied up in it at any point, I am merely renting it from Audi finance, the same way you rent your home from your landlord. Both of us will have nothing to show for it at the end (Well I will actually, I'll have the initial deposit to go onto the next PCP)
As to living on credit? I have over £100k equity in my home now having only bought my first property 3.5yrs ago. I must be doing something right as as you say, many hundreds of thousands who bought 3.5yrs ago dependent on area will have been hammered by housing.
Last edited by Mitchy260; 15 November 2010 at 02:32 PM.
15 November 2010, 02:08 PM
#137
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Nothing at all except for savings to buy a house outright, a great place for our little one to grow up and a nice location for an office that clients rather like too.
You however will be raped for interest payments on the car and house. Oh and we own the cars - we can sell them if we need to. You can't sell your "right" to pay Audi lots of money for the pleasure of running a car. Add up your interest payments (most are too afraid to ever do so) on your house and car and come back with a figure. It will be an enormous amount for things that aren't even yours (or in the case of the house, mostly a finance company asset).
You are paying others large sums for them to convince you that you live the "high life" just like thousands of others who have loaned themselves up to the eyeballs and don't realise what a crumbling cliff edge they are living on.
You however will be raped for interest payments on the car and house. Oh and we own the cars - we can sell them if we need to. You can't sell your "right" to pay Audi lots of money for the pleasure of running a car. Add up your interest payments (most are too afraid to ever do so) on your house and car and come back with a figure. It will be an enormous amount for things that aren't even yours (or in the case of the house, mostly a finance company asset).
You are paying others large sums for them to convince you that you live the "high life" just like thousands of others who have loaned themselves up to the eyeballs and don't realise what a crumbling cliff edge they are living on.
15 November 2010, 02:22 PM
#138
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Nothing at all except for savings to buy a house outright, a great place for our little one to grow up and a nice location for an office that clients rather like too.
You however will be raped for interest payments on the car and house. Oh and we own the cars - we can sell them if we need to. You can't sell your "right" to pay Audi lots of money for the pleasure of running a car. Add up your interest payments (most are too afraid to ever do so) on your house and car and come back with a figure. It will be an enormous amount for things that aren't even yours (or in the case of the house, mostly a finance company asset).
You are paying others large sums for them to convince you that you live the "high life" just like thousands of others who have loaned themselves up to the eyeballs and don't realise what a crumbling cliff edge they are living on.
You however will be raped for interest payments on the car and house. Oh and we own the cars - we can sell them if we need to. You can't sell your "right" to pay Audi lots of money for the pleasure of running a car. Add up your interest payments (most are too afraid to ever do so) on your house and car and come back with a figure. It will be an enormous amount for things that aren't even yours (or in the case of the house, mostly a finance company asset).
You are paying others large sums for them to convince you that you live the "high life" just like thousands of others who have loaned themselves up to the eyeballs and don't realise what a crumbling cliff edge they are living on.
I can get out of the PCP at any time, infact, I just have actually. I am currently 18mths into a 36mth PCP on the TT I have just now and will end that with no financial penalty for the new deal on the RS. (Far easier than you selling your car through Autotrader
)Without revealing my financial details, both of us are higher rate tax payers with a combined income in 6 figures. We are both 27, and have over £100k equity in our home having only got on the property ladder 3.5yrs ago. It's not a bad position to be in and we are certainly not credited up to the eyeballs. No loans, no credit card debts, nothing bar mortgage and car rental. We do live on credit yes, but who doesn't?
We live within our means and our financial commitments are easily met, where is the harm? I'm not cash rich, no and will not be for a good number of years if at all. When the big mortgage is paid and the nanny doesn't need paying then perhaps I/we too will be able to save up like you do.
Anyway, I wont post anymore on this as it is going round in circles a little.
Mitch
Last edited by Mitchy260; 15 November 2010 at 02:46 PM.
15 November 2010, 03:57 PM
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I reckon you could own a GT2 RS for the cost of capital interest for three years - say £15k.
Not bad for a car costing £170k and being one of the quickest mainsteam production cars on the planet. It is a fraction of the cost of usual super and hyper cars!
PS Mitchy - all quiet on the Golf in a dress now are we
15 November 2010, 04:09 PM
#140
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You have seen through my cunning plan
I reckon you could own a GT2 RS for the cost of capital interest for three years - say £15k.
Not bad for a car costing £170k and being one of the quickest mainsteam production cars on the planet. It is a fraction of the cost of usual super and hyper cars!
PS Mitchy - all quiet on the Golf in a dress now are we
I reckon you could own a GT2 RS for the cost of capital interest for three years - say £15k.
Not bad for a car costing £170k and being one of the quickest mainsteam production cars on the planet. It is a fraction of the cost of usual super and hyper cars!
PS Mitchy - all quiet on the Golf in a dress now are we
Run that past me again. How do I run a GT2 RS for a total of £15k over three years? Or is that because it's being made in such low numbers you think it will become a collectors car?
Btw, if you are prepared to discuss them what are the details of the lease deal for the GT3?
15 November 2010, 04:15 PM
#141
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Btw, I think people are being a little harsh on Mitchy, he seems like a bright lad making decent money who has decided he wants something now and has seen a means to an end.
I don't think he is the typical in debted individual that people think he maybe.
I don't think he is the typical in debted individual that people think he maybe.
15 November 2010, 04:16 PM
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There is an element of speculation, that unlike the 997 GT2, the RS does not suffer vertiginous depreciation. Assuming 993 GT2 levels of depreciation you will probably be able to sell it for what you bought it for in three years time.
They are ultra-rare and ultra-hard to get a hold of. I know, I tried.
Using a LIBOR lease purchase deal with a 20% deposit it will probably cost around £15k to own. OK, I have discounted opportunity cost of tying up capital - but that is just too complicated
The GT3 RS is not much worse - I reckon cost of capital interest plus maybe 15% depreciation over three to four years.
They are ultra-rare and ultra-hard to get a hold of. I know, I tried.
Using a LIBOR lease purchase deal with a 20% deposit it will probably cost around £15k to own. OK, I have discounted opportunity cost of tying up capital - but that is just too complicated
The GT3 RS is not much worse - I reckon cost of capital interest plus maybe 15% depreciation over three to four years.
15 November 2010, 04:29 PM
#143
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There is an element of speculation, that unlike the 997 GT2, the RS does not suffer vertiginous depreciation. Assuming 993 GT2 levels of depreciation you will probably be able to sell it for what you bought it for in three years time.
They are ultra-rare and ultra-hard to get a hold of. I know, I tried.
Using a LIBOR lease purchase deal with a 20% deposit it will probably cost around £15k to own. OK, I have discounted opportunity cost of tying up capital - but that is just too complicated
The GT3 RS is not much worse - I reckon cost of capital interest plus maybe 15% depreciation over three to four years.
They are ultra-rare and ultra-hard to get a hold of. I know, I tried.
Using a LIBOR lease purchase deal with a 20% deposit it will probably cost around £15k to own. OK, I have discounted opportunity cost of tying up capital - but that is just too complicated
The GT3 RS is not much worse - I reckon cost of capital interest plus maybe 15% depreciation over three to four years.
I see, thanks.
This colour combo looks really nice.
http://ucl.porsche.de/ucl/plsql/uk/c...nr_=1&caller_=
15 November 2010, 04:33 PM
#144
Thanks guys, just like to say interesting and informative read with regards house/rent. A little heated at points but both have a good view points..
On a personal level I have a horrid feeling the market place will be dramatically worse in the coming years, and have often had a mad moment and thought about selling up now, whilst property prices are fair enabling me to release my equity in my house, and then pay off what is left on my Mortgage.
Then rent my mother and father in laws country property for under market value rent rates because they can't sell, and just sit back and see what happens to house prices. But in the meantime I get a better property in the country and financial freedom..... It would be a bold move, but not perhaps as bold as I first thought.
But that said the equity I do have is largely as a result of paying into mortages for years and moving houses. So whilst it worked for me until now, perhaps now is the time to consider a change of direction.... If only I had a crystal ball to enable to me to look at where house prices will be in 3-5 years time
On a personal level I have a horrid feeling the market place will be dramatically worse in the coming years, and have often had a mad moment and thought about selling up now, whilst property prices are fair enabling me to release my equity in my house, and then pay off what is left on my Mortgage.
Then rent my mother and father in laws country property for under market value rent rates because they can't sell, and just sit back and see what happens to house prices. But in the meantime I get a better property in the country and financial freedom..... It would be a bold move, but not perhaps as bold as I first thought.
But that said the equity I do have is largely as a result of paying into mortages for years and moving houses. So whilst it worked for me until now, perhaps now is the time to consider a change of direction.... If only I had a crystal ball to enable to me to look at where house prices will be in 3-5 years time
15 November 2010, 04:34 PM
#145
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Extremely dull practical question but how do you actually pay that much money?
The Landy and the BM were both around £21k but with cars to p/x we had about £16/17Kish K to pay. There seemed no way we could pay for them in one go as all (apparently) banks have a £10k per day limit (we paid by direct transfer) - so with an £85k car do you pay over nine days?!
Seems a bit archaic to me.
The Landy and the BM were both around £21k but with cars to p/x we had about £16/17Kish K to pay. There seemed no way we could pay for them in one go as all (apparently) banks have a £10k per day limit (we paid by direct transfer) - so with an £85k car do you pay over nine days?!
Seems a bit archaic to me.
15 November 2010, 04:55 PM
#147
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And as for the rent - v -buy, that really is dependent upon where you live.
Our nearest neighbours have just sold their house for what amounts to nearly 20% more than they paid for it 3 years ago.
But then Scottish prices generally were never as highly inflated as those in England.
Matt, £1000 pm rent for the Nursery is a fantastic deal. Is there a catch? You tied into a long lease?
Our nearest neighbours have just sold their house for what amounts to nearly 20% more than they paid for it 3 years ago.
But then Scottish prices generally were never as highly inflated as those in England.
Matt, £1000 pm rent for the Nursery is a fantastic deal. Is there a catch? You tied into a long lease?
15 November 2010, 05:10 PM
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I do take task with his justification though, in terms of total cost of deal and the 'lack of depreciation' as that is mostly what he is paying in his rental.
Much simpler to say I can afford £600 pcm and want a Golf RS.
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15 November 2010, 05:12 PM
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DD - nope but we get on with the Landlord very well.
I forgot you know all about us... Like our new website? ;-)
Scottish rental market is pretty different - for one thing, tenants have a lot more "power" than down here.
I forgot you know all about us... Like our new website? ;-)
Scottish rental market is pretty different - for one thing, tenants have a lot more "power" than down here.
15 November 2010, 05:21 PM
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£100,000 purchase price
£80,000 financed
£50,000 residual
£1,057 pcm
£8,083 interest
This is based on current LIBOR rate which could rise medium to long term.
Porsche UK will give a much higher GFV even over three years but the lower pcm hides a hideous interest rate.
My two observations are - I would never want to tie up this much capital in a car and whilst there is a risk, there are very few cars of this value where this makes any sense other than financial suicide. It really is a how much can I afford to pay to play. I am guessing a GT3 RS will be worth 85% barring a financial catastrophe again
and so TCO will be around £23k over three years.Just a shade more than a Golf RS