john banks

There is a 10 plate 550i with the turbo v8 for £54k with 200 miles on it.

Dingdongler

John, I've gone over this again and again in my mind. The problem is the 530d is 50 BHP short of the 535d, that's quite a lot. Then it's a SE rather than M Sport so it doesn't quite look the part and won't handle as well. Then it won't be specced well, which means it will be lower spec than the car I already own ie a fully specced M5.

So yes I'll have an extra £20k in my pocket but I'll have car that doesn't quite look the way I want, go the way I want, handle the way I want, or have the toys that I want. What's the point of that?

Dingdongler

Link please.

john banks

True, but does 50 BHP matter when you're downgrading performance so much from the E60 M5 anyway, and if you can get either chipped at some point there is about 50 BHP there? Good as a 300 BHP turbodiesel is, in a car this heavy, when you live with it you'll find it is all initial torque and no proper top end, which is fine in London I suppose, but so would something slower be also. It feels promising going to the shops or commuting, but never actually gets much better. It is a mid range car costing strong money IMHO. There will always be another model with another 50 BHP. The M5 is a proper car to drive just for the hell of it, and is rewarding to pedal in those special moments when it can be pushed.

What about the 535i and 550i I mentioned? Is the SE suspension so bad especially on our roads? Agree with the looks though.

john banks

http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/auc/car_d...FR920X0C272133

Now THAT has a proper engine. You might not need the M with a chip on this...

The diesel fanboyz go on about range, economy and boring stuff like that. But they forget that when you put turbo(s) on a proper petrol engine that it just rocks.

Dingdongler

Oh John, you are really making me think twice about this purchase. Which is no bad thing I suppose it's a big purchase.

The 550 once mapped should be proper fast. In the USA Dinan have mapped it with a stage 1 to 480 BHP, even if you took it easy and say released 50 BHP that would be 450 BHP which is only 50 shy of my M5. It's extra torque and turbo hit should make you forget about that.

Problem is that if I start speccing a new 550 M Sport it comes to over £65k! The SE I'm pretty sure will handle too softly John, even the M Sport compared to my M5 seems a little too comfort focused.

So the only solution then is to wait a year and buy a one year old 550 MS or 535D MS, so that I'm buying a mid range car for more like mid range money.

The problem there is keeping my M5 for another year with this fault ie the vibration that nobody can diagnose. It's really annoying and means I don't really enjoy the car the way I should.

Thanks

PS, you mentioned the 535i John, but that is slower to 60 than the 535d

Trout

iTrader: (1)

The midrange torque of the 535d is addictive and I am guessing subjectively will make your M5 feel slower, unless you wind it through the revs. And I am also guessing you don't spend all the time in your M5 over 5k rpm.

Jamo

iTrader: (23)

nothing boring about that, looks lovely

zip106

That 550i looks superb.
I've always hankered after one of these type (540i/550i) of BMW's.

Don't se many about. Wonder why?

Daryl

You could always buy a Clio 200 Cup with the change and have some proper fun when you feel like it!

Seriously, a big saloon like the 535 will be a great ownership experience, but ultimately a bit boring to drive (I know, I've got a Jag XJ6).

Trout

iTrader: (1)

The big petrol BMWs have steep depreciation - just wait a couple of years and then get one free in a Christmas cracker!

john banks

The 535i prob shows different 0-60 due to different gearing, I would surprised with less weight if it is slower or obviously slower for higher speed increments.

Why not take the E60 to the BMW tech on here? I would persist in getting that fixed and wait for the new M5, or wait for a used F10 of your choice nearly new.

Not really looked in detail but sometimes the bigger engined models in SE might have what the lower models call Sport? Is this not the case with the 335i coupe for example? BTW, is an M3/335d/i saloon too small if you were even thinking of a 911?

john banks

Also you were talking about doing work to the suspension anyway?

Dingdongler

Hi John, in terms of the M5 I took it to another BMW maindealer head tech, very nice guy. He said there was no easy way forward with the car. As nothing obvious had come out on manual inspection or on the diagnostic it would be trial and error. Maybe start with changing the engine mounts and take it from there. He warned me this could be a very expensive process, obviously the first thing you try might fix it or the last.
I've already spent about a £1000 trying to fix it and could easily spend £3k at a maindealer. What if they find something really bad with it??? Even if they don't in that time I'll probably need another couple of tyres (£600), MOT etc. So I could end up shelling out quite a bit of money.

As for the new M5, that comes out in 2012 and I considered ordering one but price will be £80k with options and the initial depreciation will be HUGE, perhaps £30k first year. So I would buy about 12-18 months old, so that would be almost 2014!! That's a long time away, I don't want to keep my present car for that long.

The other option is to wait a little while and buy a used 535d ms, thing is given I'm saving £6.5k off list it will take some time before they appear at the dealers at a significant amount below that. Remember the 535d ms only arrived last month.

As you can see I'm a little confused and unsure. I want to change my car, have about £50-60k to spend but there aren't many options. I'm grateful for your counter arguments though as it's making me think long and hard, and that might stop me making an expensive mistake.

john banks

I know you don't like Audi, but have you tried a new RS6?

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Ding - have you had a look at a Maserati GranTurismo. Rarely have I seen a car look SO gorgeous and sound SO gorgeous.

I reckon it must have one of, if not the best sound of any car on sale today.

Dingdongler

John, I've considered the RS6 before and something about it just doesn't seem to float my boat. To me it's a car trying to be special but doesn't quite succeed, fast yes, but not much else.

Trout, I couldn't agree more. There are a couple near me and they are stunning, I can't find a bad angle on that car. But it's not a family car is it? Not sure if it has more room than a 911. Then there is the perceived reliability issues with Maser.

Anyway picked up the car today after work. It's a 530d Msport, not the 535d ms I would be looking at buying. Driven it around a little tonight and must say in sport and even more so in sport+ mode it's a very potent engine. Just feels really rapid, at least up to 80mph which is the most I took it to so far. A 535d would have an additional 50 BHP, and a remapped 535d would have an extra 100 BHP, that would make the car very quick indeed.

There are two issues coming to my mind

1) These cars are quick, but obviously not M5 quick let alone 911 turbo/GT3 or GTR quick. The trade off should be much better mpg. I've been giving it some WOT and the mpg is 20, not as much as I would have expected. Obviously I don't drive like that all the time in everyday life but I was expecting a bit more mpg.

2) Character/X factor. Cars like these are very accomplished but sometimes they lack that certain something. Jumping in the M5 always felt like I was being privileged to experience something special, even if its 5 years old and not worth a great deal of money anymore.

I'll spend a bit more time putting it through it's paces tomorrow.

zip106

20? 20 mpg from a derv?

Kin hell that isn't good.
No doubt with 20k miles under it's belt it will get better, but 20!

As a comparison, I spanked my car today on some wonderful twisty country roads, WOT in nearly every gear and frequently redlined.
Average MPG on a 50 mile run was 21.9 - not bad for a 4wd, >450 bhp 3.6 petrol

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I thought the Maser was quite big inside - will take a closer look next time.

I am sure you will be amazed by how quick the 535d is in day to day driving. Mid-range, instant shove will leave many Scoobs embarrassed.

Can't compare to the M5 as I have not driven one.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

The GiT has managed 21.9mpg over 12k miles in my stewardship

john banks

I am averaging 20.

Dingdongler

Ok, so the car goes back tomorrow and I've been driving it around a bit more today.

I must say this car feels very fast. In all the time I've been driving it I've never felt it was underpowered. Obviously I haven't raced another car to put it into perspective and have the shame of having my a8rse handed to me, but i never felt like the car didn't have enough power.

I took it onto a dual carriageway and ahem, may have exceeded the limit 'slightly' and it kept pulling hard. In some ways I'm actually driving it harder and faster than I do the M5 as it's so much easier to do in this car. Just press the gas and it flies, quietly and smoothly without the wail and scream of the mighty V10.

It's difficult to believe the 0-60 is 6.3secs, it feels faster, like a near 5sec car.

Handling is not bad at all for a big saloon, it's bigger than the outgoing E60. Obviously not as good as the M5 but far more comfortable. I wonder if the AC Schnitzer springs would add just that tad more focus?

The problem is that wallop of torque just gets me pressing the loud pedal all the time, it's just so lovely to experience. As a result the mpg I'm getting is nowhere near what I thought I would get. And this is the 530d don't forget, my plan is to get the 535d. I like to keep the sport auto box in 'sport' mode which keeps the revs just above 2k rpm, I suppose the equivalent would be for me to keep the M5 at 4.5krpm even when in traffic, which I don't do. Maybe I need to use the flappy paddles and change up when not needing to be on that part of the power curve.

I've posted my mpg findings on a number of BMW forums and they are all surprised, they have all had 30-40mpg, including guys who insist they gave the car a good pasting.

Thanks

Matteeboy

I can thrash the living daylights out of mine and get over 30mpg. But the real reason I got it was for the Vanquish beating torque coupled with a very decent chassis. The range between fuel stops is simply an added bonus. Glad you enjoyed the car Ding. 35d removes any gaps in power with the two turbos. It's not just about the extra oomph.

john banks

http://www.whatcar.com/car-depreciat...ditionId=18193

A few depreciation curves. The 535d ms looks a bit scary as a new purchase...

LG John

What!!!! That can't be right John. Surely there is no chance in hell a 535d is going to drop from £45k to £25k in year 1? If so that would make it one of the most appealing nearly new purchases ever.

john banks

Ask What Car... they are also likely to be trade in prices, there may be a new model effect, and it ignores the effect of discounts and options, but the last E60 535d didn't exactly hang onto its value that well either. It is a midrange version of a common executive car but they want top money for it, although it deservedly sells well, so you take a depreciation bath. Not all of us can do a Trout, but I think you can do better from a financial point of view than buy a new one. Leggy 5 year old 535d start at £10k approx.

There is a year old 535d ms at just under £29k on Autotrader, with some spec, maybe some of it is standard, but that is a dealer advertised price, not a trade in price. I bet some do change hands at a year old for £25k. If you offered me the chance to buy 4 of them to sell on at £25k each, I wouldn't necessarily bite you arm off and think that as a small time trader I'd necessarily turn a large profit to make it worth my while.

john banks

We Buy Any Car offer £23500 on just over year old 535d M Sport with 20000 miles in average condition. Yes they are rapists. But there you go.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Those figures seem pretty pessimistic to me John - check out Autotrader and BMW approved - even three year old 535ds are fairly strong money - about 40-45% residual on optioned price.


Ding - I told you they were fast! Wait until you get in a 535d - and they are so easy to make fast - just press go and off you go!

Trout

iTrader: (1)

...there's nothing stopping you John

john banks

Speaking of Trout, I'm starting a new thread to ask you questions in NSR...