P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Interesting comparison Martyn, something i wasnt expecting, but i will say the 2.5 defo looks laggy . Maybe its the hybrid 35/42. I was thinking you may have shown one where there was a tad more lower down, like one of the clinics here https://www.scoobynet.com/showpost.p...&postcount=317

Effectively a 3000rpm power band, that would require less stirring of the box.

MartynJ

Well I can show this one, but as it isn't on the same turbo it becomes meaningless as a comparison.

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Overlay the 2 Martyn, there is only 20bhp in it.

bigarf

iTrader: (67)

tbh,i never started out wanting a car that had more power than everyone elses had,just so i could say look i have a graph better than yours when down the pub.before i bought this car i had 2 forged engines built by 2 different companies.the first turbo i chose was a md321t+ and on the second one i chose the standered fit gt30.now if i was wanting massive power then i would have gone rotated back then and fitted a bigger turbo.all i have ever wanted is a car that puts a smile on my face every time i got in it.but most of all was able to handle the power and handle it reliably.now as a lot may already know the first 2 engines i had built by the 2 different companies (which i dont want to mention anymore) may as well been made from chocolate and jelly babies.so i had 2 years of dissapointment and missery,but then this motor came up for sale and had just had the engine built and fully specced up by enginetuner and of course scott the previous owner.after having 2 years of failures i was a bit doubtfull of even going on with scoobs as my confidence was at rock bottom.but i took the chance and bought the car which i can honestly say was the best move i have ever made since scooby ownership.as soon as i drove the car my smile was back, and even with the power it produces i have never got in it and thought i had to baby it so it will last me.i'm not someone that will sit there and bounce it off the rev limiter or doughnut it around halfords car park on saturday night,but i do like to drive it and drive it i do,the car gets used for what it was built for and i know what the risks are in running cars at this level.i am pretty confident that if i wanted the engine to produce more power by upping the boost above the 2 bar it is running and using race fuel then no doubt it would,but i never wanted a graph saying 700bhp(even though it would be nice).when i took the car back to enginetuner to be mapped on meth i did so because i had a 210litre drum of it at home,and when i got there i asked martyn to give me a car that would produce the goods on track and not a car that was mapped to the max to produce a good graph,which i must say that by the way it drives and the the way the power is put down to the road he has done an amazing job.i will be honest and say that i always used to go on about lag and thats the main reason that my first 2 engines were 2.5l,but after owning this car for nearly 10 months now i wouldnt change it for the world.now there will be cars running more power than mine and i hope they have as much fun from them as i do from mine, because for me thats what its all about.

johnfelstead

wow, my eyes hurt!

A few new lines and paragraphs wouldnt be a bad idea.

bigarf

iTrader: (67)

iamonly4yearsoldsothinkyourselfluckyiputafullstopi nhereandthere.

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Nail on head Arf, if your happy thats all that matters, although i never questioned that.

Toffee

iTrader: (3)

well said bigarf if only I had to worry about 600+bhp

bigarf

iTrader: (67)

i know that steven,it wasnt directed at anyone inperticular.just basically wanted to say that sometimes the big power game becomes an obsession and goes beyond what its all first started out to be.FUN.
just make the most of what you have mate.

Toffee

iTrader: (3)

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

know what you mean, which is why i like my hatchback. its brilliant at what it does.

wrx9181

iTrader: (2)

i remember some of your write ups bigarf so hats off to ya pal well done mate

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

Its never been an obsession with me I have always said that I just want a car that scares the **** out of me when I accelerate

mickywrx

iTrader: (29)

1 Mike Latimer - 750bhp 560ftlb 2.35 on race fuel gt35r Billet, 2.25 bar boost, VECS heads Cosworth cams (Did not last too well 3 track days and 4500 Miles, to be investgated maby user error that broke it.) (Made 701 on V power too) Home Built
2 STi Singh - 735.1Bhp (V3 RA, 2.35 & GT40)
3 Mike Latimer - 701bhp 610ftlb 2.35 on race fuel gt35r Billet, 2 bar boost, Ver 6 heads with LP cams (still going strong after 8000+ miles) Home Built
4 MAD Hammer - Drag car 682bhp
5 Simon Jolly Green Monster - 665bhp 2.1bar on race fuel 2.35 gt35R
6 Stew TFS Racing - 650.1bhp
7 bigarf - 650 (Currently the highest powered 2.1 in the UK to our knowledge)
vpower + 20%meth @ 2bar.built by enginetuner and still going strong.
8 andyscoobym3 -638bhp (2.5cdb,20%meth,2.2bar,t04z, 603 on v power)
9 Fai17 - 627
10 Banny - 620 (2.5 CDB)
11 Fiestaboy - 617 (Race Fuel)
12 badbird - 604 (V power only)
13 Martynj - 558.4bhp on Race Fuel
14 stevebt - 550 old figure so new one will be in a couple of weeks
15 Screechy - 528 (10% methanol)
16 Banny - 523
17 pugsleygti - 517 (15%meth)
18 TimHardisty - 2.5l, modified LM480 twin entry, 1.7bar, 516bhp, Vpower+10% meth see graph
19 MAD Hammer - Type R 509/441 (20% Meth)
20 Andy97 - 502 20% E85
21 Billsandhu - 490 (Vpower/Tesco's99)
22 fixup1982 - 485bhp/440lb (v-power / water-meth injection classic)
23 kiranbaloo - 481
24 Fat Boy - 480ish (P1 on V power)
25 Carpboy - 477
26 F11 SYS - 467 (Type R on V power)
27 Steve Whitehorn - 465ish (lightened classic - V power)
28 MelTypeR - 461 (Litchfield LM450 Spec C on v-power only)
Stevesbluewrx/The Gimp - 453 (std internals and sports cat but with 5/7% meth on V Power)
DaOne - 452 (v-power only)
Tempop1 451.4hp (2.5 conversion on v-power)
JD5217 - 451bhp (std internals 10% meth)
dave_garrett - 449 (MY05 2.5 cdb)
TX - 447/420 (UK 2.0 classic on T99) [372hp per ton ]
Anger - 437
B0DSKI - 425
555EFC - 420
dunx - 420 ( guessing, but it's quicker than when it ONLY had 390...)
F4la (john) - 410 on 25% meth
DANSSTI - 400
Shaun - 398 (VPower - MY06 JDM STI)
happydude303/ 390hp 365ft 2.0 classic wrx v power/20g
botb - 380
Wurzel - 370
johnfelstead - 370ish MY05 JDM STi (considerably faster than that lot in the twisties ^^^^^ and that lot too vvvvvv )
Carlh - 365
Mifo - 362 Spec C
Aladdin - (690hp Nissan Pulsar GTi-R) (400/400 Type R) & Now a 360hp S202
shagy1 = 360hp/370lbft (wrx inport )
Mystery_Machine - 352 (But has been seen to do 372)
LEO-TERZO - 350
EmzWRX - 349.5
Rickya - 345 (Spec C on Vpower)
rallychick - 345 (standard 95 wrx with bolt on's)
Bicco - 343
Tidgy - 341.4 (fund a different graph lol)
ScoobySteve69 - 340
ScoobyL - 340
badman1972 - 340
Arronb - 340/345 (laptop calc for my MY08 STI, must get it the rollers)
wrx fifer - 338.5 more next year!
paulwrxboro - 338 decat and filter (RS focus)
Richie - 334
GAZ2293 - 332/329 (V7 wrx)
Steveyman-332
mickywrx - 329.4 Standard EJ20, standard ECU, V Power only, very little boost, couple of bolt on's, been used/abused in this state of tune for 4 yrs IIRC, http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i7.../RRpower-1.jpg
mrfastbaz - 320
jdc1 - 319.6
Curtiz - 312
TonyBurns - 310@5570 (poorly car due to neutral pos switch being faulty)
Camoscooby - 310 (but not for long!)
Steve777 - 306
rapid.STI - 305 (Sti7 Prodrive)
Pimmo2000 - 302
Saint AAI - 301.5 (T2000)
Moley_WRX - 301 (in theory)
AndytheJock - 301 (in practice)
badman1972 (missus car) - 300
rogos - 295hp/251lbft (shell v-power + millers cvl turbo)
huntmartyn - 288hp/289tq ( wrx with 2.5 bottom end )
95turbowagon - 285/268 (Bug WRX)
Suberman - 276 (Spec C 280ps as per Japan's spec sheet)
JonMc - 270 (Fiestaboy estimate)
rapid.STI - 240 (UK Turbo Wagon)
Myles - 218 (on a good day!)
Allan - 45 (Smart Fortwo) std internals, sorry no graph to prove.
Frayz = Zero (currently)
G.Mac = Zero (looking forward to moving it up the list in a few month
dave_garrett = zero (type r undergoing Version 8 transplant)
si2000 = Zero (untill late spring 2011)

Should have stayed at 350bhp, then Steve. Will pop down this week, if you're off work, you can take me for a spin in it along past the Angel.

JP4

iTrader: (12)

Cheers for thinking about the "1" - too many big guns on there already .

Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

Agree totaly. I just wanted a brutaly quick car, that had usable controlable power, was reliable and put a grin on my face. And that is what I have.

Thanks to API, Harvey, Jules, JGM and Bob Rawle
I have your old MD321T+ on my car and it pulls like a train

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

I don't think that power would quite cut it Its only 50mph road for quite a bit now around the angel and on the motorway so it doesn't take much speed to get banned around there!

mickywrx

iTrader: (29)

Meh, you drive, I'll watch for coppers.

tempop1

1 Mike Latimer - 750bhp 560ftlb 2.35 on race fuel gt35r Billet, 2.25 bar boost, VECS heads Cosworth cams (Did not last too well 3 track days and 4500 Miles, to be investgated maby user error that broke it.) (Made 701 on V power too) Home Built
2 STi Singh - 735.1Bhp (V3 RA, 2.35 & GT40)
3 Mike Latimer - 701bhp 610ftlb 2.35 on race fuel gt35r Billet, 2 bar boost, Ver 6 heads with LP cams (still going strong after 8000+ miles) Home Built
4 MAD Hammer - Drag car 682bhp
5 Simon Jolly Green Monster - 665bhp 2.1bar on race fuel 2.35 gt35R
6 Stew TFS Racing - 650.1bhp
7 bigarf - 650 (Currently the highest powered 2.1 in the UK to our knowledge)
vpower + 20%meth @ 2bar.built by enginetuner and still going strong.
8 andyscoobym3 -638bhp (2.5cdb,20%meth,2.2bar,t04z, 603 on v power)
9 Fai17 - 627
10 Banny - 620 (2.5 CDB)
11 Fiestaboy - 617 (Race Fuel)
12 badbird - 604 (V power only)
13 Martynj - 558.4bhp on Race Fuel
14 stevebt - 550 old figure so new one will be in a couple of weeks
15 Screechy - 528 (10% methanol)
16 Banny - 523
17 pugsleygti - 517 (15%meth)
18 TimHardisty - 2.5l, modified LM480 twin entry, 1.7bar, 516bhp, Vpower+10% meth see graph
19 MAD Hammer - Type R 509/441 (20% Meth)
20 Andy97 - 502 20% E85
21 Billsandhu - 490 (Vpower/Tesco's99)
22 fixup1982 - 485bhp/440lb (v-power / water-meth injection classic)
23 kiranbaloo - 481
24 Fat Boy - 480ish (P1 on V power)
25 Carpboy - 477
26 F11 SYS - 467 (Type R on V power)
27 Steve Whitehorn - 465ish (lightened classic - V power)
28 MelTypeR - 461 (Litchfield LM450 Spec C on v-power only)
Stevesbluewrx/The Gimp - 453 (std internals and sports cat but with 5/7% meth on V Power)
DaOne - 452 (v-power only)
Tempop1 451.4hp (2.5 conversion on v-power, everyday car)
JD5217 - 451bhp (std internals 10% meth)
dave_garrett - 449 (MY05 2.5 cdb)
TX - 447/420 (UK 2.0 classic on T99) [372hp per ton ]
Anger - 437
B0DSKI - 425
555EFC - 420
dunx - 420 ( guessing, but it's quicker than when it ONLY had 390...)
F4la (john) - 410 on 25% meth
DANSSTI - 400
Shaun - 398 (VPower - MY06 JDM STI)
happydude303/ 390hp 365ft 2.0 classic wrx v power/20g
botb - 380
Wurzel - 370
johnfelstead - 370ish MY05 JDM STi (considerably faster than that lot in the twisties ^^^^^ and that lot too vvvvvv )
Carlh - 365
Mifo - 362 Spec C
Aladdin - (690hp Nissan Pulsar GTi-R) (400/400 Type R) & Now a 360hp S202
shagy1 = 360hp/370lbft (wrx inport )
Mystery_Machine - 352 (But has been seen to do 372)
LEO-TERZO - 350
EmzWRX - 349.5
Rickya - 345 (Spec C on Vpower)
rallychick - 345 (standard 95 wrx with bolt on's)
Bicco - 343
Tidgy - 341.4 (fund a different graph lol)
ScoobySteve69 - 340
ScoobyL - 340
badman1972 - 340
Arronb - 340/345 (laptop calc for my MY08 STI, must get it the rollers)
wrx fifer - 338.5 more next year!
paulwrxboro - 338 decat and filter (RS focus)
Richie - 334
GAZ2293 - 332/329 (V7 wrx)
Steveyman-332
mickywrx - 329.4 Standard EJ20, standard ECU, V Power only, very little boost, couple of bolt on's, been used/abused in this state of tune for 4 yrs IIRC, http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i7.../RRpower-1.jpg
mrfastbaz - 320
jdc1 - 319.6
Curtiz - 312
TonyBurns - 310@5570 (poorly car due to neutral pos switch being faulty)
Camoscooby - 310 (but not for long!)
Steve777 - 306
rapid.STI - 305 (Sti7 Prodrive)
Pimmo2000 - 302
Saint AAI - 301.5 (T2000)
Moley_WRX - 301 (in theory)
AndytheJock - 301 (in practice)
badman1972 (missus car) - 300
rogos - 295hp/251lbft (shell v-power + millers cvl turbo)
huntmartyn - 288hp/289tq ( wrx with 2.5 bottom end )
95turbowagon - 285/268 (Bug WRX)
Suberman - 276 (Spec C 280ps as per Japan's spec sheet)
JonMc - 270 (Fiestaboy estimate)
rapid.STI - 240 (UK Turbo Wagon)
Myles - 218 (on a good day!)
Allan - 45 (Smart Fortwo) std internals, sorry no graph to prove.
Frayz = Zero (currently)
G.Mac = Zero (looking forward to moving it up the list in a few month
dave_garrett = zero (type r undergoing Version 8 transplant)
si2000 = Zero (untill late spring 2011)

MartynJ

As stated, it would prove fruitless as they are using very different turbos. 1 has a stock .63 GT35R and the other a hybrid .82 GT35/42R.
Coming back to this lag thing though, compare it if you will to the likes of Mike Latimers awesome Billet equipped 35R and Simons Green beast.
Both are using the larger engines, yet neither has more power at less than 5000rpm than Arfs, or so it would seem looking at the dyno graphs alone. The only point I wanted to get across, was that dyno graphs can be misleading for judging spool.










Martyn

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

GT35/42 0.82 a/r on 2.5 with 20% meth

eggy790

iTrader: (20)

banny what was that car like to drive compared to yours? doesnt seem much revs to play with? how was it around town? straight line drag and i can imagine it to be awesome!

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

Much more responsive, eager to go in any gear and no need to drop a gear. It revved to 8k plus but on dyno during mapping it was not revved that far.

Even made Simon giggle like a child, first time he went in it

eggy790

iTrader: (20)

lol sounds awesome! i wanna see 600+ from you this year on the classic

bigarf

iTrader: (67)

just out of interest steve as you mentioned it, and i have never taken much notice at where mine makes full boost in whatever gear i thought i would see what mine did in 6th gear.i read in your build thread that you were running at just under 1.6bar peak boost.so i set my defi warning at 1.6bar and did a few runs in 6th.from what i can gather mine is hitting 1.6bar at around 4100rpm,so i think really there pretty evenly matched to say you have 200cc more and a smaller turbo housing.that was on the vpower only map btw.

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Interesting Arf, what box you running?

Steve's currently runs 1.8 bar in the mid range tapering very quickly to 1.54 bar where it makes peak power due to fuel shortage.

bigarf

iTrader: (67)

i'm on the standered uk non dccd 6 speed mate.dont know if that will make any difference as its all getting too technical for me now.

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

LOL, know what you mean.

Depending on tyre size, the 300rpm equates to anywhere between 15 and 20mph speed difference for boost. On your box, Steve's would probably do it at around 3400.

MartynJ

Has Steves been on a rolling road recently as I would be interested in what the curve for it looks like ?

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

The other week Martyn. New build, did about 30 miles bedding in, and then started to push a bit after an oil change. Was done on Zen's dyno with Paul mapping. We didnt print a graph off, as its no where near completed due to the injectors being maxed out.

Will see if i can get Paul to upload a graph.