Lettuce hope so Gene ..


We need your tax dollars

 

How can you lot be happy that we have a smug Cameron, sitting on his personal fortune of £15million ........ telling us that we are 'All in it together'?

If we were then Lord Ashcroft, the Tory Party Leader, would pay his 'fair dues' ... and Cameron would make sure he damned well did. Fact is, Lord Ashcroft is paying LESS in tax than someone on the average wage!!

Osbourne, with his massive personal wealth, is also saying 'We are all in it together' ...

Sorry, Tory Boyz ..... most of the people in this country are sinking faster than you ever will ... in it together? Don't make me laugh!!!!

 

+3

 

Do you know thats a good deal less than 300 hundred a day income

 

Yes, it would be fairer by saying joint/houshold income of over £44k loose out, however, to do that would mean a raft of new measures and a new means testing procedure. This would inevitably take time to setup and more costs. This new measure, whilst unpopular with the middle classes, is designed to make it easier and quicker for the government to reform the current system in the next parliament.

The long term goal of this government is to simplify the system, yes, people will loose out along the way, but in the long run, most, if not all the current benefits will disappear to be replaces with a "universal credit" that will make it fairer for everyone and will make it harder to make a career of living off the state. I'm am willing to take a bit of pain if it ensures we have less benefit scroungers living off our taxes. I could be wrong, but this is what I think the chancellor is trying to achieve, to dismantle current benefit system put in place by the previous government that allowed people to easily exploit the system.

 

These people who are see benefit entitlement ( what ever category ) as a universal 'right'
open to everyone no matter income are really getting up my nose

As far as i can see these sorts are not actually bothered about championing the down trodden worker they are middle class pc lefty ' ankers just positioning themselves to move up a class as they see it

Mybe its just me

 

If they are going to have to know how much taxable income the mother or father makes then surely the revised benefits form will say

a. Mother Earns [........]
b. Father Earns [........]

Now appararntly someone will check to see if either person earns over £45k. OK I accept that.

Now I'm not a maths genuis and I don't need a whole set of new measures or have to means test anyone to add up a + b.

 

+1

 

Yes, but this is a government we are talking about. If it is possible to f**k up the simplex they will find a way of doing it.

 

If they work out how to add the 2 salaries together, maybe they will calculate how to take 40% of all household earning over 44k

 

I think you've over simplified it somewhat. Even if it were that easy, every claimant in this country would have to fill in this new form detailing their salary. Hundreds of thousands of these forms will have to be printed and sent out to every verified claimant. So there is the cost of resources for printing and cost for sending and receiving these forms via the post. If there is to be an online registration, this will have to be setup too and administered. Then there is cost of getting extra resources in processing all these forms. Then there is the cost of setting up and administering and updating records the system. Then there is cost of advertising in newspapers, posters, TV and radio to remind people of the changes and to fill in these forms. I think what I've covered is just the tip of the iceberg and the cost to implement all that is anyone's guess, not to mention the inevitable delays in payments and a back log of these forms will inevitably build up. Then when the reforms kick in, then all of it will be scrapped to make way for the system they have planned for creating a huge waste of taxpayers money.

 

Really?

I am specifically referring to the intention not to check household income/dual income.

The benefits tax change announced means that the benefits people will have to put in a system to check a single salary against the cut off (£44k or whatever) and they will have to recieve details of both incomes. From that detail they will say if either person earns over 45k = no benefit. So they will have already recieved dual incomes from a household and this may involve much of the work you have detailed. Ie the media campaign should already be accounted for in the costs of this change.

So if much of the work is already in place to recieve details of both the incomes. How much more work is needed to add the two together? I don't think adding two numbers needs a whole new media campaign plus extra forms filled in.

 

I seem to remember that you inferred that you are on around £90K PA yourself!

Les

 

No they won't. The Child Benefit Office will be working with HMRC sharing data to determine who is earning over the threshold. People who fill in self assessment forms will be expected to declare their income on their tax returns. So if you're still claiming it will be recovered through the tax system or deducted via PAYE.

 

Even easier then, HMRC send data, on person A and person B as they are in the household. Child Benefit Office add person A and person B together.

I still don't see what's so difficult. Any costs that may be associated with identifying who are in the household and their income, must are already in place and needed for this benefit change.

I'll repeat there is no need to means test anyone, get anyone to fill out any forms, get a media campaign going, send any new data, actually I really don't care how the new system works or whether it's paper based or whatever. My point is that the data (the two incomes in a household) is already available at the point of assesment, so just add the two together.

Yes it really is that simple.

 

Get rid of child allowance after one sprog,I have six daughters two my own four I found along the way never claimed a penny of help in 41 yrs of work,my choice!ps have eleven Grandchildren and one Greatgranddaughter,I still help them all out when I can.

 

They have all the info anyway, via the tax credits system !

Ok, maybe anyone who isn't on a minimal salary isn't entitled to it, trouble is, this will go, then they will want some more tax, there isn't anything left to give and at least if we have to loose the money, make it fair and me on a salary of a bit over the threshold losing it as the only breadwinner means I will be worse off where as a couple with a joint salary of 86 grand keep it, that cant really go into use just because its "too hard" to work out.

If I take the company car at work instead of the car allowance, in fact bump it up a few grades to bump up the cost it drops me below the threshold, so nice new A5 and I get to keep the family allowance to subsidise it, I wont but I suspect there may be a lot of this going on.

 

But won't you still earn the same amount.....? Just get taxed more?

Damn good idea!

 

Not sure if someones also mentioned it ,but if your on the threshhold ,you could opt to put more into your Pension to bring it down below the threshold !!!!!

 

Inland Revenue know what we all earn + our address too ... can't be that hard to check the computer

TX.

 

Yes, exactly even if like CTC is was effectively based on the previous 12 months this would be better/fairer/easier/cheaper

 

Depends on the muppet in the tax office using the computer

 

I think I'm right in thinking that CB is paid per household and tax is on the individual. Child benefit is paid directly to the nominated carer. The CBO have no employment or income details of the carer or other members of the household. Unless you're happy to let the CBO get your income details with out your verification and consent, forms will still have to be submitted and people will still need to declare *all* their income to CBO which will have to be verified by HMRC. People will also be expected to notify the CBO if there are changes in circumstances, ie pay rise/cut, so another form will have to be filled in and verified. This could of course open it up to fraudulent claims, increased admin costs, delayed payments and confusion. Take Tax Credit as an example. The point is that the government are also looking to save £1bn with this initiative and they can hardly do that if they do this to process every claimant.

Don't get me wrong, I'm one of those affected and not happy about it, but this is one of many measures that I hope will help get the economy back in a healthier state and go some way to making the benefit system fairer for everyone and less open to abuse. I expect that there will be many more unhappy people as other policies come into force. The country's finance was not of this government's making and granted that a lot the policies they are proposing to balance the books will no doubt make them very unpopular.

 

That maybe so, but the computer systems between CBO, HMRC, in fact many of the different departments are not link in anyway, not even on the same network and there is no central database, remember what happened to that proposed "big brother" government database!

 

They'll have to check anyway to see if a person in the household pays 40% tax ...

TX.

 

You sound surprised?

 

Have to say I agree with you, but I am not surprised as the Tories have good ideas, but then don't think them through and/or let public pressure sway them into something even more ridiculous rather than admit they were wrong and put it right properly. They have always done this and it is sad that they seem to be the same old same old.

As for Warsi my thread earlier this week on the stupid cow's conference speech summed her up. She is in love with the fact she is doing well in the Conservative Party, but has no clue as to what she might actually do that would be worthwhile. Not that she has the brains to do it anyway.