TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

I would not even use a 0w in a new age, minimum of a 5w, no lower than a 40, especially in a classic engine.

Craig, read my last post again, as I have said in it, coolant is there for cooling the block, I dont need to mention why you need to cool the block if you have hot oil in there, especially in a turbocharged engine, but I cannot really be ar5ed carrying on, and yes, all oils lubricate, you should go do some milling, may show you how well light oils and heavy oils work for cooling or even better, lubricating (especially if you use the wrong one )

And no, you still have not got the correct oil of my car

Tony

captain_anonymous_2003

This has got absolutely nothing to do with what I have said, and once again you're just dismissing my view despite you being completely unable to put a shred of evidence together that suggests otherwise. Yes I agree it's pointless continuing our discussion.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Dismissing your views?!
I have been informing you WHY WE DONT PUT A 0W OIL IN A PETROL TURBO CHARGED SUBARU, or have you missed that point?

Thanks

Sabas

iTrader: (22)

After reading all this, I think the best way to solve it is:

Create a poll, pick the most common oil, divide it by the number of people who have

voted, then ring opie oils and get the oil they have on offer

Sabas

iTrader: (22)

sorry, just joking , Tony, what do you do for a living?

PM me if you don't want to post it up

I have been following this and now my brain is frazzled and I need to pack up my drum

kit as I have a band rehearsal in 15 mins!

Oh, was also going to out, does a forged engine mean you would choose oil differently

compared to an engine on stock internals?

captain_anonymous_2003

Tony,

I am waiting for the evidence that suggests 0W is a poor choice.. fire away.. So far nothing you have said suggests it's unsuitable apart from this 'rod bearings will explode' that you keep speaking of and yet you can't tell me a satisfactory reason that means 0W is unsuitable for a petrol turbo charged Subaru.

Thickness, no.. both a 0W and 15W are the same at operating temperature and the 15W is worse at low temperature cold starts.. so that's not a good reason. We've also established that summer temps make no odds and it's really winter where the 15W is a poor performer.

Sticking? No, both oils are synthetics with esters and as a result the ability to stick to parts is irrelevant as they are more or less the same. So no.. it's not that.. your argument is getting thin on the ground.

No your whole arguement is, Tony says so and so it must be right. Well I am sorry Tony but I don't hold you in very high regard yet when it comes to oil selection.

The real culprit I expect is, wrong oil for the type of driving that car was exposed to. Really hard driving on a 0W-30 or 0W-40, perhaps even track conditions that lifed an engine early. That's a reasonable reason, but that doesn't mean 0W is unsuitable for the car, it means it's unsuitable for a car for that application. Which I have maintained all along. So what other reason is it? Go for it I am genuinely interested. Perhaps it's cleaning power? Or shear? Nope.. and nope.. again.. sorry.. for normal conditions 0W-40 is unlikely to lose any of its integrity, and neither will the 15W-50 for that matter, and considering some intervals for some board members are as low as 3000 miles I doubt it has chance!

We've shown it's not thickness.. we've shown it's not 'the sticky nature' of oil. What is it Tony? I imagine it's a choice based on consumption mostly and noise. Those are valid reasons, but they're not based on anything mechanical or wear.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

So you dont know anything about subaru engines then? like I said, go do some homework, or even better, go ask the engine builders, come back when you understand why you dont use a 0 rated oil

Tony

captain_anonymous_2003

That's a terrible suggestion :P Again you're looking at this the wrong way. Oil choice is subjective to your vehicle and your driving habits. You would be better off asking Oilman to make suggestions based on driving styles. Simply asking who uses what is not a good poll. Bearing in mind a lot of forum uses most likely (unknowingly) use an oil that is isn't ideal.

captain_anonymous_2003

NO REASON... GIVE ME A REASON.. you've not done it yet Tony.. either give me a reason or seriously.. be quiet.. Arguing with you is like panto..

This is a sensible oil for this car based on these conditions..

Tony: "ooohhh no it isnn'tttt"

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Well when people start suing you for bad oil advice, dont come moaning back, do you understand that not all engines are the same? Thats a pretty basic start that you "may" understand

captain_anonymous_2003

You are really clutching at straws now aren't you Tony.. Firstly I've not made any recommendation to anyone and stated I don't do that earlier.. and secondly.. there is

STILL

NO

REASON

You're boring me now..

I will not be bullied or pressured by someone with 16,000 posts who thinks that makes them an expert on all things Subaru.. I am sorry.. in this instance you're just plain wrong.. And rather than be pleased that you've learnt something new.. you refuse to give up on your unfounded beliefs even when they are taken apart using physical principles right before your eyes.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

And you really are an idiot with blinkers

So, there is about, oh 12 years of experience on this forum if you use the search engine help yourself, understand the innards of the subaru engine and its "quirks".

Tony

captain_anonymous_2003

Still no reason Tony.. I'm still waiting.. And ironically there are probably a significant number of years on oil recommendation from oilman.. and yet his view means nothing to you since it isn't consistent with your magic view of oil.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Has he ever rebuilt an engine? simple question, no reason recommending an oil if its not suitable for said viscosity is there?
We have changed oilman's mind on recommending a 5w30 oil for a classic, lets put it that way

Tony

captain_anonymous_2003

What does that question even mean?

"simple question, no reason recommending an oil if its not suitable for said viscosity is there?"

That question makes no sense at all Tony. What do you mean an oil is not suitable to said viscosity?!!? That makes no sense whatsoever.

On a side note, on my other forum when the oil debate came up it was friendly and information, it was like this:

User1: Well I always thought it was this way because of these reasons.
User2: Ah, but I am not sure they stack up because of this, this and this.
User1: Hmm are you sure I was under the impression this and this evidence supports what I said?
User2: No, I think that may be wrong, take a look at this and this.. I think this might be right.
User3: Unfortunately you're both wrong, read this, look at this data and it might become clearer.
User1 and 2: Sweet, thanks mate, but got some more questions for ya.
User3: Fire away..

Why isn't it like this here? Why is it when someone presents something that you can't dispute really your only response is just to attack me?

gallois

it's always like this here, sad really.

captain_anonymous_2003

Hmm. I mean I was in the same boat, really didn't see why dealer recommendation might not be appropriate to me with regards to oil, but a few of the guys took time out to explain things to me and point me towards good reading material. They were helpful, no one made it a witch hunt.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

No, your just not listening, 0w oils dont go well with this subaru engine, can you not understand that?
Recommend all you want, but there are hundreds, if not thousands of oil threads on here, go have a look in the tech section, but you dont want to learn about the engine, just shout about how good 0w oils are

I put in my first thread to go and learn about this engine, but you dont want to?
Not my issue but for those who now go out and buy a 0w oil and put it in their car and it causes issues, it wont be nice (or cheap) for them.

Tony

gallois

why is 0w not good for subaru engines, is there any reason behind this as theres no logic to it?

loppy

this is great real handbag stuff!! by the way i use sikolene pro 5/40 in MY 2000 classic
cheers fellas!!!

zedy

what a joke,,,, looool who ever puts 0w 40 in is giving their car a death sentence eventually it will sound like a bag of spanners,,,, especially a classic,,, its way too thin

If you want good advice just listen to TONY BURNS he knows his stuff.

deepy

iTrader: (1)

For anyone interested, the complete article that captain_anonymous_2003 has quoted from in parts can be found here: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=136052 and makes interesting reading. I have to admit that I had no real prior knowledge of the way oils actually work and reading this thread has (in addition to being amusing in parts) opened my eyes to it. Thanks to all the knowledgeable guys who have contributed, regardless of your views it's a great thread.

Sabas

iTrader: (22)

Ah, my humour is wasted, this is something I would never do, I did put "joking" underneath!

oilman

iTrader: (9)

Not so good, they tend to drink it at a bit of a rate in a lot of them, hence the Castrol 10w-60. I was speaking to a BMW technician on a forum the other day and he said that BMW call 350 miles per litre of oil acceptable. Personally, I don't think that is acceptable. The engine may well be properly lubricated, but an extra £18 or so (at BMW prices every 350 miles) is a bit out of order. I've also heard of those drinking a litre of the 5w-30 at 200 miles. If I remember correctly, they changed the engine mid 2000 and the pre-change ones were fine with 5w-30 but after that, the 10w-60 was a much better choice

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Is that too thin when cold or too thin when hot..........................

zedy

thin from cold

captain_anonymous_2003

Seriously, you have no idea what you're talking about.

I will explain this a 5th time! Try to understand this simple idea.

xx mm^2/s is a measure of THICKNESS, the higher the number the THICKER the fluid ok? Does that make sense? So 45 mm^2/s is thinner than 500 mm^2/s right?

Look at any oil on the shelf, they'll aim for 10-20 mm^2/s AT TEMPERATURE. This is the thickness of the oil when your engine is nice and warm. Look at your can of oil, look at ANY can of oil. This is what it will aim for and show for the 100C value. Ok?

0W-40 is 75 mm^2/s @40C This is TOO THICK for operating temperature which is 10-20 mm^2/s. 75 is HIGHER than 10-20.. can't you see that? With 15W it's even worse.. 120.. WAY WAY WAY higher than 10-20.. can you not see that?

If 0W-40 isn't thick enough for your engine cold, then what on earth do you think to any oils thickness at temperature!? By your own logic it's a death sentence running a car at temperature with any oil period, because the thickness is WAY LOW at 10-20 mm^2/s?

What on earth are you on about!!? If you don't understand don't contribute, Tony doesn't understand either. There is no issue with a 0W oil that makes it unsuitable for all cars. This is a joke. Call Castrol, Shell, Fuchs, Mobil and sound like a child and say "Well Tony told me 0W's are all rubbish so ner" and they'll laugh at you and tell you to go away.

captain_anonymous_2003

Again.. EVERY OIL MONEY CAN BUY.. IS...

TOO ...

THICK......

WHEN.....

COLD!!!!!

captain_anonymous_2003

So basically it does the job but I'll spend as much as I do on petrol on oil! lol.. Figured as much.. my consumption is around 1 litre every 2000 or so.. I tend to find it's worse when the car is consistently at higher revs for longer periods.. like long motorway trips.. Round town and to work it's relatively stable.. I went middle of the road as I didn't like the cold start on 10W-60.. so I use 0W-40 mobil 1 in mine at them moment.. A lot of us have had great results with it..

captain_anonymous_2003

I am more than happy to change my tune if there is a good reason for it, but so far none have been presented. I fail to see how a Subaru engine is so super special that it can't take a 0W. Ferraris can, BMWs can, Mercs can, Porsches can, the RS Focus can... But don't just say.. "it's no good in these engines".. that's not an answer is it.. I have an M5, I don't think that engine is too super special for a 0W-40.... A lot use that oil in that car and have fantastic results.