Leslie

Did not bother with the post race witterings, but I think that Vettel had a perfect right to try to overtake but I also think that if Webber had any sense he would have given Vettel a bit more room just for safety's sake. He had the advantage on the inside of the bend already. I think the fault lay on both sides especially since they are both driving for the same team. I am not surprised that Horner was well and truly fed up.

The best example is that of Hamilton and Button who had a go in exactly the same way and they made a bit of a fight of it as once again they were entitled to, but in this case they were both sensible enough to give each other enough room to avoid a stupid accident! Neither was annoyed with the other after the race too.

Les

RA Dunk

really?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCxd5_E56tY

Coupe-Se

Are you watching the same video as everyone else? Webber does not make any move at all!

Every bit of tv footage shows Vettel hugging the left hand white line and then jinking right to try and frighten Webber to move off the constant straight line he was keeping. Webber was rightly keeping Vettel on the dirty side to disadvantage Vettel at the next corner and allow Himself to keep the lead.

There is no way that Vettel would have moved left to let Webber through had the roles been reversed. Vettel seems to struggle to make a clean racing pass stick and his attitude is very similar to another notorious German racing driver.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

You're wasting your time mate, he isn't watching the same footage as the rest of us - his is in his head

chrisevo2000

. Vettel seems to struggle to make a clean racing pass stick and his attitude is very similar to another notorious German racing driver.[/quote]

Except,that the other German driver would have made that move stick.
Chris

GlesgaKiss

Good to actually see that Button, Webber and Hamilton might be mates and get along in real life with some banter. Makes a nice change from recent years where drivers were totally alien from one another, just showing up at a track to do a job then going home. Nice to see some character.

P1Fanatic

Ive watched that clip a good 20 times and to me it looks like the little bump of Hamiltons car is actually him hitting the corner bump rather than actually making contact with Jensons car.

Thats about as clean as it gets. All it takes at that speed is one tiny mistake and you collect the other car but thats different from coming alongside and turning into another car.

Simon

davyboy

Watch the BBC forum, they slow it down so the visually impaired can it view clearly like the rest of us.

I'm suprised that someone with a username such as yours is really clueless about the very thing you claim you are a fan of.

I'm not sure what you are expecting, the slightest input at 160mph has an impact on the direction of an F1 can. He is not driving a bus, this is a slight movement towards his team mate.

FlightMan

So, whose fault was it? Let's ask the experts.

Brundle says Vettel.
Coulthard says Vettel.
Davidson says Vettlel.

Give it up Davyboy.

P1 Daveyboy

Vettel thought red bull would give him wings

SimonD

Webber did steer slightly to the left at 47secs. This was to change his diagonal trajectory across to the right of the track for the following left hander into a straight path parallel to the edge of the track - almost certainly a reaction to seeing that Vettel had got a run on him.
I would expect any driver to do this as it forced Vettel to either go the long way round or take a slow line into the left hander, giving Webber a chance to cut back in after Vettel's inevitable slow exit from the next turn.
I suppose the question is whether it is reasonable to expect a driver not to defend his position against his teammate?

davyboy

Nothing to give up.

If I'm pointing a finger, it's at Vettel. However, as most have failed to pick up, and I'll repeat it again...and this is my key point;

"Mark Webber is not totally blameless"

Clear enough?

Aaron1978

iTrader: (12)

Team mate or no team mate, is what Webber did or didn't do allowed in F1?

If by Webber racing is putting any of the blame on him, what is the point?

I can see why the team and Vettel are upset, but to me it was Vettel's arrogance that just because it was his team mate that he should let him past easier than any of the other teams would. I would hazzard a guess that all the other drivers would do the same including Vettel.

Aaron

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

can it view???? Why should I take any notice of some idiot who can't even put an English sentence together?

I have watched it. I do not need to watch it again. Webber does not turn left even by a fraction. Any steering movement at all is simply the feedback coming through the steering and there is virtually none. Now you can imagine all you want and scream and shout like a f**king idiot for all I care but you are wrong!!!! End of discussion. Now go away and annoy someone else.

stiscooby

There was something up with Lewis too after the race, wasn't his usual "happy" self considering he had just won the race?? On the forum he said "he will be happy next time", why not this time?

I think he got a bit pissed that Button tried to over take him or they got told different things by the team? Starting to spit his dummy out again me thinks.

With regards to the Webber/Vettel thing...... Vettel's clearly to blame, yes Mark moved over to start with- to defend as you would, but didn't totally close the door. Vettel was alongside and actually slightly ahead of webber when he decided to jerk to the right. If Vettel had remained where he was (just off the white line) then he would have probably got through by the time they got to the corner.

It was Vettel jerking to the right that caused the crash, simple as.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

I disagree. I think he doesn't like winning by having his rivals crash out and I think he assumed that 'conserve fuel meant maintain position whereas Button deided to be cheely and have a go. I think Lewis knew how close they were to handing the win back to Red Bull and was a bit miffed with the team rather than Button. Nothing more than that in my book.

davyboy

You really are unable to hold a discussion without resorting to childish insults. I suggest you relax, take some deep breaths and try and formulate a response that isn't a rant. I'm really at a loss why you would get annoyed though. It's a discussion forum for, well, discusion.

Your username suggest you are an f1 fan (as you'd like to be known), but you've proved once again you are clueless when it comes to details. He moves left, it was discussed on the BBC forum show, they all saw it.

To suggest he doesn't move even by a fraction, makes you look like a clown.

f1 clown should be your new username. To suggest I stop screaming and shouting is amusing.

FlightMan

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Funny you should say about it being a discussion forum. It's a pity you didn't show a certain poster the same courtesy you seem to expect a few weeks ago on another thread isn't it, instead of being a nasty little keyboard warrior.

Still hypocrisy is what people like you do best isn't it?

And for the record you have absolutely no knowledge of what I do or don't know about F1 and I am not about to enlighten you, but that's OK .. you carry on speculating all you want. What you write in here is utterly insginificant anyway more so than most posters actually.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

LOL, can I have some?

davyboy

May I bring your attention to the words 'deided' and 'cheely' Maybe we should leave out the grammar and spelling insults, and get down to facts?

As we are beginning to learn, you're book isn't worth that paper it's printed on. He doesn't like winning by having his rivals crashing out? Of his 12 race victories how have you managed to come to this conclusion? Surely not by thinking!

davyboy

I've got a flipping good clue

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Er... by listening to what he said

billythekid

+1. His voice was very much up and down in the interview after the race.... classic sign of being mad.. very mad. I think there is a lot going on behind the scenes. Is not often I agree with EJ... but he even said he will get to the bottom of it on the forum.

Re the move, it think the best way to look at it is if it were 2 separate cars for 2 separate teams.

If this were the case I think the stewards would have something to say...

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

I love this place. There is always some 'expert' who knows better than you about anything and everything.... ah well as long as it makes you happy.

mart360

At 47 sec's he makes a correction to his steering, to line himself up for the corner, he's pole after all!

Vettel dosent come alongside until 49 secs, and drives across at 51.

Vettel was using his "presence" to try and muscle Webber out of the way.

Webber didn't need to move, he had the racing line.


Mart

belliott69

iTrader: (3)

being honest i cannot see anything wrong with the accident from webbers point of view, he was leading and didn't want to lose that place so he made it very hard to do so, why should he of moved for someone trying to go by. if its the case that he should of moved we might as well make it a rule that its like the back markers, if someones quicker by the tiniest amount then you move over and let them pass and then they'd be no accidents, or they could give extra points for the fastest consitent laps over the race.

EddScott

I think JB and LH had words before they went out to the podium. LH and MW were talking about the incident and LH said "It did it to me too" JB thought LH was talking about him - hence LH was saying "No no no" before they went out. Its on the BBC website. I also think LH was told to turn down the engine and JB either didn't or wasn't given the order.

MW was also told to turn his engine down. SV it seems wasn't or didn't hence why he rolled up to MW so quickly.

Horner being unfair to MW after.

Edit - got say, they all looked a bit guilty on the podium.

davyboy

So you think that after 100 laps of the place he still needs to make a fairly swift direction change to line himself up for the corner.....just after he saw Vettel coming alongside after a glance in his mirror?

I'm not blaming Webber, I am just saying as Vettel is his team mate, he could have given more room to avoid a clash, rather than 'squeeze' Vettel. As it is, Vettel DNFd so Webber is a winner.

Horners view of things, and even he puts some blame of Webber.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/8713862.stm

davyboy

I thought he was saying that in case Button gave somethign away, and didn't realise a camera and mic were behind him.