stevie1982

iTrader: (16)

in all fairness i think you have had a bad result from what normaly will go ahead with no issues but this is just me and being over causios on what ever i do, personaly i would not trust the jdm base map and evey car i have bought gets a quick visit to bob rawle and a tank of vpower before i go and has the car mapped for uk fuel, then i go on to a rolling road to see what it can do. i think you need to put it to a lesson learnt as said most make you sign a disclaimer and i am shocked you did not have to.

if i were you and as already mentioned i would either buy RICH RHH 2.5 block and have API fit it, for one i doubt it would cost much more than a built 2.0ltr and in my opinion the 2.5 is a much nicer lump.

or if you are after a new block be it 2.0 or 2,5 i would still give david a call at API, he and his team really know there stuff and you will not be sold something you do not need. top company, top service and you may even get a bacon roll thrown in.

best of luck.

steve

Splitpin

Did it? Unless you know something about the OP's car that isn't on the thread it isn't directly specified whether it was running lean or rich. The direct quote is:

It's unclear from that which side of scale the mixture had gone off. If the quote re. "extra fuel" reads as read then it may have been rich. Although, in practice, a standard ECU won't "throw in extra fuel" once in open loop mode, so the comment as it reads is wrong.

Trio, do you have the dyno plots to hand, and so can tell us what the AFRs were? Would also, for academic purposes, be interested to see how much cooling airflow had been directed into the intercooler.

trio

iTrader: (1)

splitpin yes i do have the readouts from the rolling road session, but for me making sense of them is not easy as i didnt really understand what was happening at the time and it was the first rolling road day i have been on.

the way i understood what the guy in charge was telling me was that the engine was lean and ecu detecting knock, retarding the timing as a result and using more fuel to combat the knock, (does this make sense?) il try and post a picture of the print out.

i presumed they would do basic checks prior to the session just to make sure the car was in a fit state to take the abuse, the car wasnt even on the rollers that long, 5mins at the most with one power run, i think they were having problems setting up the dyno to my car, something to do with my car having locked diff, it wasnt till half an hour later when i left the garage i realised my car was not as it was and had developed a rattle

wether the rolling road was the cause or the problem had been festering since i bought the car, il never know, all i can do now is fix it the best way i can, having no money at the mo doesnt help matters but it need fixing.

i rang dyno demons today but the boss who i spoke to yesterday was off ill, so i only spoke to the mechanic. he said the bottom end has a slight grumble and i might get away with just a freshen up of the engine as it is. i expect this means replace the defective parts, maybe a new crank maybe not depending on the damage, bearings, rings, gaskets, oils ect, he quoted in the region of £1500, i would like to do the rebuild as cheaply as possible but i want it done right firts time, my head is telling me this is probably not the best idea?

ive also spoke to one of my local subaru specialists Cotton competition near preston) this guy was very helpfull and explained to me what he could do for me, he will not do a freshen up of the engine, and a full rebuild is my best option with a price of £4-£4.5 grand all in, he explained that is a false economy to not do a full rebuild and its only asking for trouble futher down the line, i really need to speak to a few more engine builders before i make up my mind, api will be my next call tommorow, although i feel there to far away from were i live, id like the work done closer to home really.

thanks tristan

trio

iTrader: (1)

can anyone tell me how to post pictures

nick172sport

iTrader: (6)

use photobucket that will transfer off your computer your pics then copy and paste ontu thread ie img code

trio

iTrader: (1)

cheers will try and suss that out

Aaron1978

iTrader: (12)

While i fully understand why you would want the work carried out close to home, if there is one company i'd leave my car with from dropping it off to picking it up done it's API. I've read countless threads about them and people who use them and David from API is a member on here and is always offering free advice to anyone. I've never used API but if i needed a rebuild they would be the first people i would call simply because of their reputation and and the number of happy customers on this site.

Aaron

trio

iTrader: (1)

trio

iTrader: (1)

not the best pictures but hopefully someone can make sense of the afr

Thanks tristan

marklemac

From memory, there is a disclaimer notice on the wall.

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Very rich after 4100 rpm, but this isn't this a std ECU?

Can't quite read it, but does IT =42
Was it very warm in the workshop?

Splitpin

As Butty says it goes very rich. Look at the first graph you posted up and see how the AFR line (with the scale on the left hand axis) goes through a little "peak" at around 2550 rpm then falls straight down and off the bottom of the scale at around 4200. That bottom line of the scale is 10.0:1 AFR, and the curve isn't even beginning to level off at the point it disappears so **** nose where it actually settled. It's a shame those graphs don't drop below 10:1 (or autorange to keep the reading "on the page" no matter how rich it goes).

What type/age of car do you have? An STi 5 or 6 isn't it? If so, it seems on the basis of that print to be running far too rich - beyond the standard fuel map and, assuming it was being invoked, the high det fuel compensation (which has a relatively limited ability to add fuel).

Will be interesting to see what others make of this, but on the face of it, and assuming you are correctly relating what you were told, the graph doesn't tally with what you were told. Because the AFR has gone below the bottom of the print area it's impossible to tell for certain what was happening, but the part of the line we can see is an almost linear drop - with a slight steepening at around 3450rpm.

That's a dangerous assumption to make. Aside from anything else it simply isn't possible to properly check whether an engine is capable of being pushed to its limit in this way simply by looking at it or running basic tests. That's why most dynos rely on the disclaimer.

It really does depend on the extent of the damage and your ultimate intentions for the car. The damage can only be fully assessed as the engine is disassembled. If you've caught it at its earliest stage and don't have any ideas about running big power then you should be able to do it far more cost-effectively than the £4500 option you've been given, certainly. As has been said you could do worse than have a chat with David O'Brien at API and see what he suggests.

Can you tell us a bit more about the setup of the car on the dyno btw? Was the bonnet open or closed, and was there a fan or (or air duct from one) applied directly to the intercooler?

Also do you know whether the engine was actually being monitored for knock at the time the runs were conducted, and if so, how? Bloke with headphones on or bloke looking at little electronic box?

Finally, what fuel did you have in when this happened?

It does say 42, although "AT" is listed as 14, so the workshop wasn't that warm. Hmmmm....

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Yup, I'm assuming the AT is correct, so it begs the question what is being measured at 42 deg C?

It could be:

- temp sensor just left loose in engine bay
- car has cone air filter in engine bay and temp sensor has been put in mouth.
- temp sensor is properly mounted after IC and reflects true(ish) charge temp.

Nick

Pavlo

Early ECUs will not add any significant amount of fuel causing that rich running as a result of detonation. All the speculation about how it was running on the dyno is pointless, poor cooling on the dyno does not kill the engine bearings in one or two dyno pulls. But scoobynet was never a place to let truth stand in the way of a good arguement or witch hunt.

trio

iTrader: (1)

Butty the workshop was bloody freezing on the day with the large roller door open, and yes its a standard ecu, the only mods the car has are a panel filter and 3inch cat back exhaust, car is v5 type-r v-limited, i always use v power and would not use anything else.

When the car was running on the rollers they had a large fan infront of the car around 2-3meters away which kept kicking in and out, but the bonnet was shut, the guy in the car held a small hand held thing, cant say what it was, it seemed to be linked to the engine and computer using wires, i have been told they should have been using det cans to monitor the engine and aborted the session if anything was untoward.

I think i have decided that a fully forged rebuild is in order, dyno demons will use a sti crank, acl bearings,rossner pistons and eagle rods, new oil pump with a roger clark part fitted to make it even better (cant remember what that was called) and all other consumables, they will also map it on a safe map for running in, then the final map once run in, for a price of around £4500 i need to find out if this included the vat as i forgot to ask at the time.

i also spoke to david at api who was very helpfull and informative, he told me exactly wat he could do for me using similar parts to the above at a price of about £4100, this includes new crank and trimetal bearings, api branded rods(550bhp), new weisco pistons ,rings and rebore, overhauled heads and with new valves as nesessary, api rebuilt and improved oil pump, new cambelt gaskets and oil filter, lightened flywheel, ported headers, and recovery from where the car is at the moment, this seems a very good price and hassle free.

my other option is my local subaru specialist (cotton competition), now i mentioned api to him and he seemed to think there rebuilds were a cheap option, not using the very best parts and maybe re-using certain parts that he just would not do, cotton comp has given me a old invoice of a rebuild they did recently, this rebuild was for a 2.5 ltr engine, so some parts i would not be needing that were on this invoice.

theres included cosworth rods and pistons, sti crank and acl bearings, 11mm high output oil pump, modine oil cooler, apr head stud kit, FULL engine gasket set, head skim and bore, bronze valve guides, recut valve seats, new thermostat, cambelt, uprated fuel pump,all consumables, flywheel clutch and ballance, safe map for running in and final map all for a touch under
£4000

ive also have to have the car recovered to there workshop at an extra cost, add another £200, so really there around the same price although api include the lightened flywheel and ported manifold, now im scratching my head wondering whos going to be best to do the rebuild

which seems the best bet to you guys?

Thanks Tristan

my94wrx

iTrader: (4)

i personally would go with api, they are regarded as one of the best for all things subaru, but that is just my opinion

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Personally, I'd bite David's arm off!

DO a search for feedback on here for both companies THEN make your mind up.

David doesn't cut corners or use less than optimal parts: he's one of the get the job done right, pay once, leave happy brigade!

Tidgy

as said before the afr is screwed on that dyno print out, did they warn you about it at the time?

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Trio - looks like you've had the car less than 6 months. Was there any warranty with the car?

trio

iTrader: (1)

no, no warranty was talked about at the time of purchase, and i was warned about the importer i was buying the car from( wrc imports based in bradford) to be honest i think the car, to the best of my knowledge was in good order,it never gave me any cause for concern up until this weekend, i was told by people on here that a remap was the first thing i should have done to make sure it was good to run on our 99ron fuel, i choose not to do this in the hope it would be fine, i didnt really want to spend £600 on something i couldnt physically see, i now realise this was a big mistake, a big lesson learned there i think.

both api and my local specialist seem to be offering a great package, both have given me lots of info and gone out of ther way to help, i dont doubt that both will give me a suberb forge engine, both using quality parts, i think its now just a matter of deciding which i trust to leave my car with.

thanks Tristan

mike h

iTrader: (10)

You won't go far wrong with API mate. Had mine rebuilt in may 2007 and to this day I'm still happy with the service I received. I've done 30,000 Kms with no issues what so ever.
They came all the way to south wales to pick it up too!
If you pick your car up off them on a saturday then look forward to a brekky roll!

trio

iTrader: (1)

yeh david seems a great bloke and very helpfull, with a no bull**** approach to the service he provides, i think my mind is made up now, im just not to happy about shelling out 4-5 grand that i really wasnt expecting, thinl i will be keeping this car for some time to come.

Thanks tristan

JonnyUK1980

iTrader: (1)

My bottom end went a few months back, i managed to pick up a complete newage engine and gearbox off ebay for £1200 and it cost me £450 to have it fitted including a service etc. Buying a second hand engine is always risky, so far so good with mine i've done 1000 miles and it's good as gold (touch wood).
A rebuld will give you piece of mind but cost a lot more. I spoke to zen performance and he said bare minimum £2750 but they do a pukka job and strip it right down soa ll parts are checked thoroughly. Just depends how much money you want to spend i suppose

Rich RRH

Im back, sorry I did not know my inbox was full.
Api 2.5 Short Block (bare)
Semi closed deck
Api rods
Mahle pistons
Arp bolt set
2.5 crank
Linered 2.5

This engine set up produced 455bhp 505lbft with graphs to prove it.

If you are interested then please pm me and I will give you more info.

Rich RRH

£1650 ovno