Help !!! Killed the Scoob !
28 July 2009, 09:09 AM
#61
Evos have their own problems too. I think excessive crank endfloat ("crankwalk") is one such malady. The crank can literally end up milling the block!
But I think this is a problem predominantly on the I, II and III (possibly IV too?
).
But I think this is a problem predominantly on the I, II and III (possibly IV too?
).
Last edited by joz8968; 28 July 2009 at 08:23 PM.
28 July 2009, 12:08 PM
#64
Scooby Senior
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Slowly rebuilding the kit of bits into a car...
Posts: 14,333
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My tame mechanic Ben has a waiting list of customers for 2.3's as long as your arm.
He has a few broken gearboxes, but NO broken engines.
dunx
He has a few broken gearboxes, but NO broken engines.
dunx
28 July 2009, 08:27 PM
#67
Nothing stops you from doing it of course...... but how long it'd last is another matter...???
DON'T DO IT!!!
lol
Last edited by joz8968; 28 July 2009 at 08:29 PM.
28 July 2009, 09:10 PM
#68
'We will use all reasonable care and skill to avoid damage or breakage but cannot be held liable if components cannot be removed without damage'
I will feel more comfortable arguing the toss when the engine is in the car and running !
28 July 2009, 09:16 PM
#69
If the tolerances on the crank are so tight that it can't be re-ground, wouldn't it suggest that they are not up to the job in the first place ? It also occured to me that bearing companies manufacture over (under ?) size bearings to suit, must be a market for them ?
At the moment I don't have much option but to fit it and see, the engine comes with a 6 month unlimited mileage warranty (LOL) I am more than happy to escalate matters if it fails prematurely.
28 July 2009, 09:57 PM
#70
I hope that they didn't hammer the cam pulley retaining bolts to try and loosen them - apart from breaking the plastic/resin pulleys, you can run the risk of breaking the thrust faces of the camshafts if they are hit hard from the front.
Re-ground cranks - bit like Russian roulette - it is extremely difficult to remove all traces of grinding swarf from the blind ended oil gallery's (no removable blanking plugs like the billet ones have) and in my opinion, grinding 0.25mm off the big end journal will reduce the depth of the surface hardening of the journal - not good if your planning upgrades to the engine to improve the power/torque.
Just my 2 pence worth and just getting my flame suit on lol
Hope everything turns out ok for you though.
Mick
Re-ground cranks - bit like Russian roulette - it is extremely difficult to remove all traces of grinding swarf from the blind ended oil gallery's (no removable blanking plugs like the billet ones have) and in my opinion, grinding 0.25mm off the big end journal will reduce the depth of the surface hardening of the journal - not good if your planning upgrades to the engine to improve the power/torque.
Just my 2 pence worth and just getting my flame suit on lol
Hope everything turns out ok for you though.
Mick
29 July 2009, 10:13 AM
#72
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: @Junc 12, M40 Warwicksh; 01926 614522 CV33 9PL -Use 9GX for Satnav. South Mids Alcatek ECu dealer
Posts: 6,377
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
I have been told the same thing but never had a technical explanation why a Subaru crank is any different to every other vehicle ?
If the tolerances on the crank are so tight that it can't be re-ground, wouldn't it suggest that they are not up to the job in the first place ? It also occured to me that bearing companies manufacture over (under ?) size bearings to suit, must be a market for them ?
At the moment I don't have much option but to fit it and see, the engine comes with a 6 month unlimited mileage warranty (LOL) I am more than happy to escalate matters if it fails prematurely.
If the tolerances on the crank are so tight that it can't be re-ground, wouldn't it suggest that they are not up to the job in the first place ? It also occured to me that bearing companies manufacture over (under ?) size bearings to suit, must be a market for them ?
At the moment I don't have much option but to fit it and see, the engine comes with a 6 month unlimited mileage warranty (LOL) I am more than happy to escalate matters if it fails prematurely.
The oil galleries in most cranks are sealed with small allen-key grub screws that can be taken out to clean the thing.
Subaru use a ball bearing bashed in about 5 mm. It is not possible to get them out without spark eroding the ball away to nothing.
Spark eroding is an option, but the time taken to ' melt ' 4 ball bearings that are very difficult to get at due the angle of the oil gallery. That it is still more cost effective to fit a new crank.
There is a cost increase, sure, But with a new crank there is no risk element at all.
We have ground cranks in the past, on a customers insistence and we have ' got away with it ' Bearings are available, so theoretically it can be done.
We have bought and used Subaru UK supplied recon short motors in the past here [ they are no longer available ] Guess what? We never had one with a ground crank in it.
So what? we took them apart every time ? You betcha, I'm not having the reputation of APi wrecked by some monkey building up recon short motors.
David APi
Watch out for our new rolling road coming on stream Summer 2009
Agents for:
Simtek, the most exciting new Ecu for years
Buddy Club exhausts
Hayward & Scott exhausts
BC suspension
Samco hose kits
Hybrid front mount intercooler kits
AP Racing brakes and clutches
And of course; the well known APi Performance Exedy organic clutch
www.apiengines.com
www.apiimpreza.com
01926 614333
29 July 2009, 04:34 PM
#74
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: @Junc 12, M40 Warwicksh; 01926 614522 CV33 9PL -Use 9GX for Satnav. South Mids Alcatek ECu dealer
Posts: 6,377
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
I did think that we had spoken about your engine at some time recently. Never mind, lets hope that what you have now hangs together.
Have you tried asking about whoever you bought from at Trading Standards??
I would certainly start some talk going in light of the fact that what you got, bears no resemblance to what you THINK you bought.
Good Luck - you know where I am if you need me David
Have you tried asking about whoever you bought from at Trading Standards??
I would certainly start some talk going in light of the fact that what you got, bears no resemblance to what you THINK you bought.
Good Luck - you know where I am if you need me David
29 July 2009, 08:53 PM
#76
Well, by the time we tried to drive it to the garage, the noise had developed into what sounded like a lunatic armed with a hammer trying to escape from the block !
Collected the car at 5pm today and done 60 miles so far.
£780 inc VAT for the engine swap, put in a new clutch I had hanging around as well just in case.
Just waiting for Simon to arrive to fit the 3 port solenoid and re-map it.
Collected the car at 5pm today and done 60 miles so far.
£780 inc VAT for the engine swap, put in a new clutch I had hanging around as well just in case.
Just waiting for Simon to arrive to fit the 3 port solenoid and re-map it.
30 July 2009, 12:30 AM
#78
Simon has just left, mapped the car to safe levels whilst we get some miles on it.
Just have to see how it goes.
Apart from the cost issues I really could do without the hassle if the re-con engine is not up to scratch.
Had some problems with a BMW many years ago and it took two years to get my money back through the courts !
Just have to see how it goes.
Apart from the cost issues I really could do without the hassle if the re-con engine is not up to scratch.
Had some problems with a BMW many years ago and it took two years to get my money back through the courts !
02 August 2009, 10:07 PM
#79
I decided to take the intercooler off last night to replace the missing bracket (I had asked the garage to do this when they fitted the engine, obviously they forgot)
Anway, just spent all day working out what the hell they had done with the pipes running to the inlet manifold and purge control solenoid.
One off the pipes was missing completely, one was connected to the air bypass pipe for my dump valve !
Spent ages scratching my head whilst pondering over my CD workshop manual, finally got it sorted (and fabricated the new bracket as well)
In the words of a famous comedian 'is it me ?'
Anway, just spent all day working out what the hell they had done with the pipes running to the inlet manifold and purge control solenoid.
One off the pipes was missing completely, one was connected to the air bypass pipe for my dump valve !
Spent ages scratching my head whilst pondering over my CD workshop manual, finally got it sorted (and fabricated the new bracket as well)
In the words of a famous comedian 'is it me ?'
03 August 2009, 12:47 PM
#80
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: @Junc 12, M40 Warwicksh; 01926 614522 CV33 9PL -Use 9GX for Satnav. South Mids Alcatek ECu dealer
Posts: 6,377
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
How did Simon manage to map it with those pipes off ?
Careful, be very careful, until you can let him look at it again.
BUT l believe he's on hols for a few weeks as of now.
I'd park it up until then.
David APi
Careful, be very careful, until you can let him look at it again.
BUT l believe he's on hols for a few weeks as of now.
I'd park it up until then.
David APi
03 August 2009, 02:02 PM
#82
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: ECU Mapping - www.JollyGreenMonster.co.uk
Posts: 16,548
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
it showed no signs of a vac leak..
if purge solenoid was plumbed to dump valve then for running in it would make little difference.. although need to know where other pipes went etc
but agree it is not good etc
Simon
if purge solenoid was plumbed to dump valve then for running in it would make little difference.. although need to know where other pipes went etc
but agree it is not good etc
Simon
03 August 2009, 02:12 PM
#83
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: @Junc 12, M40 Warwicksh; 01926 614522 CV33 9PL -Use 9GX for Satnav. South Mids Alcatek ECu dealer
Posts: 6,377
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
Or am I wrong ?If you aren't away, I am sorry to be mis-informed.
OR are you mappping on the beach ??
No criticism intended re the how did etc ?? Just wondering if the pipes may have come after or during mapping .
David
he's charging too much.
03 August 2009, 06:50 PM
#87
Scooby Regular
Join Date: May 2008
Location: chelmsford
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i build these engines all day and can tell you your looking for around £3000 and i can put in race pistons and bearings and crank for that so not a bad rebuild when shes done 
03 August 2009, 07:30 PM
#88
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: ECU Mapping - www.JollyGreenMonster.co.uk
Posts: 16,548
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Oi !! Aren't you s'posed to be sitting on a beach somewhere?? Or am I wrong ?
If you aren't away, I am sorry to be mis-informed.
OR are you mappping on the beach ??
No criticism intended re the how did etc ?? Just wondering if the pipes may have come after or during mapping .
David
Or am I wrong ?If you aren't away, I am sorry to be mis-informed.
OR are you mappping on the beach ??
No criticism intended re the how did etc ?? Just wondering if the pipes may have come after or during mapping .
David
agree re-the pipes.. as we only did a 0.6bar map as Jon was concerned about the engine see posts previous etc.. I would imagine it will be fine as is but he is best to take it easy etc
no Barbados holidays for me
03 August 2009, 09:28 PM
#90
Thanks for the concern Simon and again many thanks for service above and beyond (for the record it was after 11pm when he left !)
Tricky to explain but the 'side' outlet on the pipe running under the inlet manifold had been capped, a pipe should have gone to the bypass pipe on the intercooler.
The 'missing' pipe had then been used to connect from the PCV connector back to the intercooler instead of to the inlet manifold (connector under the throttle body)
I guess the pipe just looked the right shape ?
God only knows what happened to the correct pipe, perhaps they just throw away any left over bits ?
I went to our local car spares shop (open all hours for the minicab drivers !) and bought some reinforced hose in the correct diameter. Re-plumbed it with jubilee clips to secure and re-fitted the intercooler.
Probably would have taken a proper mechanic half an hour, took me all f*****g Sunday !
Called the garage today and got the underwhelming 'oh right ?' as a response.
Tricky to explain but the 'side' outlet on the pipe running under the inlet manifold had been capped, a pipe should have gone to the bypass pipe on the intercooler.
The 'missing' pipe had then been used to connect from the PCV connector back to the intercooler instead of to the inlet manifold (connector under the throttle body)
I guess the pipe just looked the right shape ?
God only knows what happened to the correct pipe, perhaps they just throw away any left over bits ?
I went to our local car spares shop (open all hours for the minicab drivers !) and bought some reinforced hose in the correct diameter. Re-plumbed it with jubilee clips to secure and re-fitted the intercooler.
Probably would have taken a proper mechanic half an hour, took me all f*****g Sunday !
Called the garage today and got the underwhelming 'oh right ?' as a response.